Gohan intended to take the leading role?

[UristtheGreat]

See? Again Gohan gets screwed over because this thread about him has turned into something else.

Don't worry, his day will come eventually.

[Kid Buu]

See? Again Gohan gets screwed over because this thread about him has turned into something else.

Don't worry, his day will come eventually.

Well if we are going to be positive we can think of all of Gohan's accomplishments in the series.

* Assisted Piccolo and Goku in defeated Raditz.
* Fell on Vegeta as an Oozaru.
* Killed all the Cell Juniors.
* Delivered the final blow on Cell.
* Beat up Super Buu until Gohan was replaced by an imposter who looks exactly like Gohan.

Even Toei loves Gohan!
* Defeated Garlic Junior
* Helped defeat Lord Slug with his whistling abilities.
* Defeated Garlic Junior and his henchman in the Garlic Jr. saga.
* Helped defeat Broly in Movie 10.
* Defeated Freeza in one punch!

Now I realize someone is going to dissect this post by countering each of these points or posting the negative effects caused by Gohan's actions but this was just for fun.

[Godo]

Now I realize someone is going to dissect this post by countering each of these points or posting the negative effects caused by Gohan's actions but this was just for fun.

Let me post the negative points!

- In most of the Nappa fight, he was scared and mostly in the way. He had to be saved several times, and whenhe was to punch Nappa in that magnificient plan of Piccolo's, he froze = failure.
- He lead to Piccolo's death, by freezing when Nappa shot that blast at him.
- He lost his temper several times, leading to unnecessary violence (almost got killed when fighting Recoome, as an example)
- He let Cell blow himself up
- He didn't want to fight Cell to begin with
- He skipped training for 7 years, making Buu an energy cocktail
- He contributed with half a tank of energy juice for Buu's egg
- When he finally becomes the strongest unfused character, he decides to allow Gotenks to fight Buu (alone too), not noticing what a dumb idea that was.
- He wound up half-dead by Fat Buu's hands, and fully dead after being released by Super Buu. Although he couldn't control the latter, he could have avoided being absorbed in the first place, or better, just caught the damn Potara earring.
- He ends up a nerd after the Buu fight.
- Although it's not his fault, he got screwed over in DBGT with being downgraded into using only SSJ.

Now we have a great balance, right? It's all so that we can maintain the Jin and Yang of the thread.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Gohan would've been shit as the leading role of hero because he's not a fighter at heart.

[Godo]

Gohan would've been shit as the leading role of hero because he's not a fighter at heart.

Heroes are not known for being fighters at heart, though. They are known to put their lives in risk for peace.
Is Superman a fighter? Not really. Does he enjoy fighting? No. Is he a hero? Yes he is.
Your reasoning is like saying that Vegeta would be a better hero, because of him being a fighter at heart, while we know that he mostly doesn't give a shit about other people.

[Rocketman]

Gohan would've been shit as the leading role of hero because he's not a fighter at heart.

Heroes are not known for being fighters at heart, though. They are known to put their lives in risk for peace.
Is Superman a fighter? Not really. Does he enjoy fighting? No. Is he a hero? Yes he is.
Your reasoning is like saying that Vegeta would be a better hero, because of him being a fighter at heart, while we know that he mostly doesn't give a shit about other people.

At least Vegeta wouldn't sit on his ass eating corn chips for years and need someone to give him free stuff.

[Amigo Ten]

Gohan would've been shit as the leading role of hero because he's not a fighter at heart.

Heroes are not known for being fighters at heart, though. They are known to put their lives in risk for peace.
Is Superman a fighter? Not really. Does he enjoy fighting? No. Is he a hero? Yes he is.
Your reasoning is like saying that Vegeta would be a better hero, because of him being a fighter at heart, while we know that he mostly doesn't give a shit about other people.

It's Dragonball though. It was never a "with great power comes great responsibility" kind of story, but Gohan was that kind of character.

[Godo]

At least Vegeta wouldn't sit on his ass eating corn chips for years and need someone to give him free stuff.

And in the end, he still made stupid mistakes and worsened every situation with the villains to the highest possible degree.
His fuck ups are on par with Gohans, if not even worse.

It's Dragonball though. It was never a "with great power comes great responsibility" kind of story, but Gohan was that kind of character.

In Dragonball, even Mr. Satan is seen as a hero for carrying Vegeta away and for making it possible for Goku to save enough energy in his Genki Dama.
Hell, in Dragonball, just trying to help out in the fight makes you a hero. It's that simple.

[Amigo Ten]

That's just being a hero. It's not taking on the leading role.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Gohan would've been shit as the leading role of hero because he's not a fighter at heart.

Heroes are not known for being fighters at heart, though. They are known to put their lives in risk for peace.
Is Superman a fighter? Not really. Does he enjoy fighting? No. Is he a hero? Yes he is.
Your reasoning is like saying that Vegeta would be a better hero, because of him being a fighter at heart, while we know that he mostly doesn't give a shit about other people.

But the Z-Senshi aren't superheroes though. They're fighters. Goku doesn't go out every day stopping crooks stealing old ladies' handbags and getting his face in the national paper, does he? The fact of the matter is--Gohan was stronger than Goku, but all the power in the world wouldn't make any difference if he didn't give two shits about fighting. Goku wasn't as strong as Gohan, but he was a much better hero than Gohan because he actually cared about fighting.

And what we're talking about is the leading role. Essentially, the next Goku. My reasoning is not like saying Vegeta would be a better hero, because everyone knows he already has the leading role of Ultimate Prick.

[Godo]

But the Z-Senshi aren't superheroes though. They're fighters. Goku doesn't go out every day stopping crooks stealing old ladies' handbags and getting his face in the national paper, does he?

But I am not speaking about superheroes either, but about heroes in general. A man that saves another guy from being beaten to death is a hero.
I am just saying that even though you don't like fighting, you can still be a hero, even in the Dragonball Universe.

The fact of the matter is--Gohan was stronger than Goku, but all the power in the world wouldn't make any difference if he didn't give two shits about fighting. Goku wasn't as strong as Gohan, but he was a much better hero than Gohan because he actually cared about fighting.

We get to know that Goku's reason for fighting is really selfish and has not very much to do with "justice", as some people are confused with. If it comes to terms of leaving the fighting and power away, Gohan is a much better hero.

And what we're talking about is the leading role. Essentially, the next Goku. My reasoning is not like saying Vegeta would be a better hero, because everyone knows he already has the leading role of Ultimate Prick.

[/quote]
If we are speaking about the leading role, Toriyama made it clear that no one could ever beat Goku, so that's clear. It's Goku as the leading hero from the beginning to the end, and no character is ever to take his role, not even Uub.
Because when it comes to fighting, humans don't like it that much, especially against very strong opponents.
So if Vegeta is the ultimate prick, and the only one other than Goku who likes fighting that much, only Goku is left.

If we go into that "intended to take the leading role" subject, we had a couple of candidates, who we can discuss upon:

1) Gohan - Showed potential (great potential) until the end of the Freeza arc. By the time of the Androids' arrival, we find Gohan as reluctant to defeat the biggest threat on Earth, just because of that he didn't like fighting. Although he became the Great Saiyaman, it was only a game for him.

2) Goten and Trunks - Showed great potential too, and their power grew rapidly. But in the end, they got screwed over as "teenagers" who only liked to play around. And fighting was not fun anymore, because of that they probably stopped to "play" fighting.

3) Pan - A strong girl that in the end was screwed over when Goku abandoned everyone again. And I bet that she would slack off like any teenager at that time. Who would train her? Gohan? Or Vegeta?

4) Uub - I doubt that Goku wanted Uub to take his role. I think it was clear that he wanted to fight Buu again, that was all that was into it. The ending with the Jindujun and the flying was just a cheap "don't worry, Goku's spirit will live on" thing.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But the Z-Senshi aren't superheroes though. They're fighters. Goku doesn't go out every day stopping crooks stealing old ladies' handbags and getting his face in the national paper, does he?

But I am not speaking about superheroes either, but about heroes in general. A man that saves another guy from being beaten to death is a hero.
I am just saying that even though you don't like fighting, you can still be a hero, even in the Dragonball Universe.

A man that saves another guy from being beaten death doesn't maintain that job for a long period of time, does he? Goku intended for Gohan to basically take over for him, to be his successor, until...well, until he died. I suppose your point still counts--even if you don't like fighting, you can still be a hero. But not in the Dragon Ball universe. The example of a hero is there in Goku, since he was the first hero. That's sort of the template for future heroes in Dragon Ball. Even if he's not a perfect hero, in the DB Universe, a hero is a fighter. It's not "a national hero", it's not a "superhero", it's a "Dragon Ball hero".

The fact of the matter is--Gohan was stronger than Goku, but all the power in the world wouldn't make any difference if he didn't give two shits about fighting. Goku wasn't as strong as Gohan, but he was a much better hero than Gohan because he actually cared about fighting.

We get to know that Goku's reason for fighting is really selfish and has not very much to do with "justice", as some people are confused with. If it comes to terms of leaving the fighting and power away, Gohan is a much better hero.[/quote]

But Goku is much more interested in becoming stronger and he'd be much more efficient in fending off villains than Gohan. Goku's not a superhero and his reason for fighting is selfish, but if someone suddenly appears and poses a threat to the Earth, Goku will be able to defeat them, and do you know why that is? Because he trained to get strong enough to do that. The concept of hero in Dragon Ball is very different than our real-life hero. Well, in reality, there is no hero in Dragon Ball, because everyone's either a selfish idiot who'd let a killer go free just because he wants to fight him again, an ultimate prick with an over-inflated ego, a whiny kid who wastes his potential because he's not a fighter, or a teenager who's more interested in girls than protecting the Earth. The latter two, I don't blame them, because half-Saiyans are, in all honesty, more human than Saiyan. Gohan, really, was just a normal kid who was thrown into battle and told to grow up too fast.

And what we're talking about is the leading role. Essentially, the next Goku. My reasoning is not like saying Vegeta would be a better hero, because everyone knows he already has the leading role of Ultimate Prick.

[/quote]
If we are speaking about the leading role, Toriyama made it clear that no one could ever beat Goku, so that's clear. It's Goku as the leading hero from the beginning to the end, and no character is ever to take his role, not even Uub.
Because when it comes to fighting, humans don't like it that much, especially against very strong opponents.
So if Vegeta is the ultimate prick, and the only one other than Goku who likes fighting that much, only Goku is left.

If we go into that "intended to take the leading role" subject, we had a couple of candidates, who we can discuss upon:

1) Gohan - Showed potential (great potential) until the end of the Freeza arc. By the time of the Androids' arrival, we find Gohan as reluctant to defeat the biggest threat on Earth, just because of that he didn't like fighting. Although he became the Great Saiyaman, it was only a game for him.

2) Goten and Trunks - Showed great potential too, and their power grew rapidly. But in the end, they got screwed over as "teenagers" who only liked to play around. And fighting was not fun anymore, because of that they probably stopped to "play" fighting.

3) Pan - A strong girl that in the end was screwed over when Goku abandoned everyone again. And I bet that she would slack off like any teenager at that time. Who would train her? Gohan? Or Vegeta?

4) Uub - I doubt that Goku wanted Uub to take his role. I think it was clear that he wanted to fight Buu again, that was all that was into it. The ending with the Jindujun and the flying was just a cheap "don't worry, Goku's spirit will live on" thing.[/quote]

You see now why Toriyama thought no-one other than Goku could be the leading hero?

[Xyex]

You see now why Toriyama thought no-one other than Goku could be the leading hero?

Toriyama thought, wanted, and intended for Gohan to be the leading hero post Freeza.

And honestly, I don't get this. Why is it impossible for Gohan to be the leading hero even if he doesn't like fighting? Just because he doesn't go out on adventures and get excited about fighting strong people like Goku doesn't mean he can't make a good hero. The only requirement for that in the DBverse is that he stands up to and stops the big bads that pop up whenever they do so. Herc­ule's a hero in the Buu Saga for trying to stop Fat Buu and for helping with the Spirit Bomb, Gohan's a hero for doing what he could against Buu, etc.

The only difference here is motivation. Goku became a hero because he likes to fight. Gohan became a hero because he wants to protect his friends.

[Piccolo Daimao]

You see now why Toriyama thought no-one other than Goku could be the leading hero?

Toriyama thought, wanted, and intended for Gohan to be the leading hero post Freeza.

No he didn't. Didn't he state that he then thought that Gohan wouldn't be appropiate to take over the leading role (and, assumedly, which is why he brought back Goku to be the hero in the Boo Arc)? Even without that statement, you would've gotten the feel that he didn't think it if he ended up retconning what Goku said about having Gohan as his successor, only to plonk Goku back into the role of hero in the Boo Arc.

[Xyex]

You see now why Toriyama thought no-one other than Goku could be the leading hero?

Toriyama thought, wanted, and intended for Gohan to be the leading hero post Freeza.

No he didn't. Didn't he state that he then thought that Gohan wouldn't be appropiate to take over the leading role (and, assumedly, which is why he brought back Goku to be the hero in the Boo Arc)? Even without that statement, you would've gotten the feel that he didn't think it if he ended up retconning what Goku said about having Gohan as his successor, only to plonk Goku back into the role of hero in the Boo Arc.

He only put Goku back in as the hero in the Buu saga because that's what the fans wanted.

[Godo]

Even if he's not a perfect hero, in the DB Universe, a hero is a fighter. It's not "a national hero", it's not a "superhero", it's a "Dragon Ball hero".

I'm sorry, I have not made that conclusion from reading Dragonball. In fact, I believe that there are many things that points to a hero not having to be über strong, even the successors. I don't get where all the fans get this from.
You give out comments like "in Dragonball it's like this" and "in Dragonball it's like that". I sure don't see those things.
And then we have Xyex's comment:

He only put Goku back in as the hero in the Buu saga because that's what the fans wanted.

I guess that the fans whined because of the same view of the successor role: "the successor should be a fighter, not a scholar or someone that tries his best to do things non-violently!".

You see now why Toriyama thought no-one other than Goku could be the leading hero?

No. He brought forward several possible future leading heroes, but as Xyex said, the fans didn't want that.
I think wholeheartedly that he wanted someone else to take the role, but was stopped by the fans/editors.
There are many parts that shows us that. Regarding Gohan it was:

1) Gohan was shown to have an abnormally high power as a small child.
2) We have several quotes saying that Gohan has a high potential, and that his growth is almost limitless.
3) Gohan develops in every arc, from being a wuss into fighting even Freeza without fear.
4) He defeats Cell, and while Goku is dead, not being able to come back, and after all that successor talk from Goku, we can conclude that Toriyama probably wanted Gohan to succeed Goku as the hero.
5) Even though Gohan slacked off, and Goku was presumably made the main hero once again, for some odd reason, Toriyama made him the strongest unfused character in the Dragonball Universe. What was the point of that?

[Kid Buu]

One possibility is that after the events of Cell Gohan's personality could have more like the Gohan in History of Trunks.The Gohan in that film was more interested in fighting then Buu Saga Gohan in my opinion.

[Herms]

He only put Goku back in as the hero in the Buu saga because that's what the fans wanted.

Source, please? Toriyama says in his Daizenshuu 2 interview that he ultimately felt Gohan was unsuited for the role of main character. That's the only official word on the subject that I'm aware of.

[PatPat]

I was always dissapointed that gohan wasnt the one to defeat boo. i mean why build him up as the hero for like half the story arc just to have him kick boo's butt for like one chapter then bring in goku ? doesnt make sense, and kinda seems like a waste of time. If he was going to do that then he should have just had gohan killed off when he got blasted by fat boo. It's obvious though that toriyama wanted gohan to defeat boo right up till the end then he changed his mind. Dont get me wrong, i mean goku's my favorite character, but gohan should have taken over.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even if he's not a perfect hero, in the DB Universe, a hero is a fighter. It's not "a national hero", it's not a "superhero", it's a "Dragon Ball hero".

I'm sorry, I have not made that conclusion from reading Dragonball. In fact, I believe that there are many things that points to a hero not having to be über strong, even the successors. I don't get where all the fans get this from.
You give out comments like "in Dragonball it's like this" and "in Dragonball it's like that". I sure don't see those things.

Well, that's your opinion. I just personally believe that Gohan isn't the kind of hero Dragon Ball required.

5) Even though Gohan slacked off, and Goku was presumably made the main hero once again, for some odd reason, Toriyama made him the strongest unfused character in the Dragonball Universe. What was the point of that?

The point of that was that Son Goku was the intended main hero and is THE hero of Dragon Ball, and strength isn't the main element of that.