Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

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Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:30 pm

What is the English translation of the Ki-Kô-Hô? Viz has it noted as "Ki Cannon", which would sort of make sense if not for the "Kô", which seems to be have left untranslated. In video games, it's translated as "Ki Blast Cannon". So, would that be it?
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Amigo Ten » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:53 pm

I have a vague memory that the "Ko" means "control" or "manipulate" or something along those lines.

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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:11 pm

Well, let's break it down.

気功砲 = ki - kô - hô

気 = ki = spirit, energy (the same one you'll see all over the place in the series)

功 = = coming from Chinese (though pronounced in Japanese), meaning something like "power" (or "blast")

砲 = = again coming from Chinese (though pronounced in Japanese), meaning something like "gun" (or "cannon")

Someone who actually knows Chinese (and the martial arts concepts behind this stuff, like qigong, such as kendamu) should be able to offer a better explanation than me, but "Ki Blast Cannon" is perfectly acceptable from my viewpoint. You'll see Viz flip-flopping with how they "translate" it (and side-note it), but I know for a while they went with "Chi Kung Pao".

It's one of those things in the series where, yeah... it's Japanese... but its origin is in Chinese... so do you "translate" it to English or Chinese...? We're given furigana as a guide on how to pronounce it in Japanese (or at least just a child's guide to pronounce the kanji ^_~), so that's why a lot of folks typically just call it "Kikô-hô". Then again, there's some inconsistency from folks like me who have gotten used to writing a character's name as Yi Xing Long instead of Ii-Shinron, but eh... we've all got our quirks.

And 'cuz it's right there for me, here's a scan of it in action (albeit the Shin Kikô-hô):

Image
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Amigo Ten » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Ah, that's what it was. I was remembering qigong, which is "spirit control" or something similar I think.

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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Shoryuken » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:38 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Well, let's break it down.
功 = = coming from Chinese (though pronounced in Japanese), meaning something like "power" (or "blast")
功 doesn't mean power, but merit or archievement.
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:07 pm

I may be confusing things between two (three?) languages, so yeah, I'd love some extra clarification on it. The Japanese-origin stuff I can get through, but things that are coming through three languages tend to throw me for a loop :).

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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Herms » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:12 pm

The kikou part as a whole is the Japanese reading of qigong, the Chinese art of ki cultivation, so the entire name would mean "Qigong Cannon", or "Ki Cultivation Cannon", and simplifying the latter is where translations like "Ki Cannon" come from. Trying to translate out the kou part on its own just gets you somewhat nonsensical results ("Ki Merit Cannon!".
VegettoEX wrote: We're given furigana as a guide on how to pronounce it in Japanese (or at least just a child's guide to pronounce the kanji ^_~), so that's why a lot of folks typically just call it "Kikô-hô". Then again, there's some inconsistency from folks like me who have gotten used to writing a character's name as Yi Xing Long instead of Ii-Shinron, but eh... we've all got our quirks.[/i])
But it's actually not like "Yi Xing Long" in that the name uses the ordinary Japanese readings for the kanji, and not katakana approximations of the Chinese readings like with Shenlong, the individual dragonball names, or the evil dragons. So going by that I don't see any reason to not just go with "Kikoho" (or variations thereof).
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:13 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Image
That's from the Kanzenban, right, because didn't you say in an episode of the podcast that, originally, the Shin Kikoho was written differently than the Kikoho usually was, and that they conformed it with the Kanzenban? Just out of curiosity, how was Shin Kikoho originally written?
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Herms » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:29 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:That's from the Kanzenban, right, because didn't you say in an episode of the podcast that, originally, the Shin Kikoho was written differently than the Kikoho usually was, and that they conformed it with the Kanzenban? Just out of curiosity, how was Shin Kikoho originally written?
Yeah, originally it was written 新気砲, with the kou part written with a different kanji (巧 instead of 功), but for the kanzenban it was changed to 新気砲, same as the original Kikoho.
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:31 pm

Wow, those look... surprisingly similar... Thanks, Herms!
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Kendamu » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:04 am

Despite that things are pretty well working themselves out, I was mentioned so I'll go ahead and throw my input in. Sorry that it'll be so long. I don't get to talk about this too much.

Kikou is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word Qigong (or Ch'i Kung, pronounced chee-gong). Qigong, literally meaning "energy work") is described as a meditative practice that sometimes involves slow movements (kind of like Taijiquan/Tai Chi) specifically for the purpose of improving qi circulation throughout one's own body.

While there are many different types of Qigong, it's obvious that to keep this focused on Tenshinhan we ought to turn our attention to Martial Qigong. As the name implies, this takes the qi circulation business and goes a step further by learning how to apply qi to martial arts techniques. When qi and muscular power are mixed properly through focus, proper breathing, and proper body movement you create something called jin (martial power). There are some exercises involving the use of candles to help with focus, projecting qi out through the fingertips (about an inch or two), and combining the two skills into a punch to extinguish the candle from a distance that increases over time as you get more skilled. According to old legend, once you can extinguish a candle from a certain distance you'll be able to punch someone without touching them. Realistically speaking, you'll be able to knock someone's head off without much trouble.

As the Kikouho is a kiai type attack, my general idea is that Tenshinhan uses the focus techniques to condense the area his kiai to make it that much more powerful in a smaller area than, say, Goku's kiai against Jees and Baata. That sort of skill is exactly how he was able to temporarily hold back Cell. He's basically taking an unfocused explosion of qi and focusing it in a specific direction just like how a cannon or gun focuses an explosion in one direction to force out a projectile, hence "Energy Work Cannon/Gun." That's all just me overthinking it, though. I have no clue why Toriyama actually called a condensed kiai a Kikouhou.

Some further reading:

- A modern scientific theory on qi
- Basic qi and Qigong concepts
- Generating martial power (jin)
- Regulating breathing for circulating qi
- Candle training for qi and jin

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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by ChaojiShucaiRen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:16 am

To add a little bit to Kendamu's very accurate post, I will say that Qì​gōng (actually literally meaning "breath work" instead of actually "energy work") by itself is only used for personal purposes. Basically its a healing martial art used to cultivate your energy and for self healing-very powerful stuff. But when qì​ is cultivated for attack purposes it is called jìn. Jìn in the rawest of terms is the cultivation of negative qì​ used to attack another person, but isn't actually the act of attacking another with qì​, that honor is left to fā jìn. Fā jìn is the release of qì​ that is has been cultivated for negative purposes onto another being with energy. So in Tenshinhan's case he would be using a fā jìn attack based on the negative qì​ that he first cultivated for the attack and made it jìn in the process.

So in simpler steps:
1. Qì​ is cultivated for personal healing and good health.
2. When qì is used for a martial attack it is called jìn.
3. When jìn is released from practicioner's body to another being with energy (living being) it is called fā jìn .

EDIT: Note: When I use the word "negative" what I mean is that you are using the qì for aggressive purposes rather than passive. That is all.
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Re: Ki-Kô-Hô Translation

Post by Kendamu » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:55 pm

In Tenshinhan's case, since he's projecting it over space to another person rather than hitting them, wouldn't it Lin Kong Jin (powerful empty force)? I had to delve away from going in that direction in my original post because, in one of the Daizenshuu, the Kikouho is listed as a kiai-type attack. I kinda had to start blending Qigong and Dragonball concepts together to get a good idea of what the attack really is.

Fajin is a great term for actual realistic punches and kicks aided by qi, but I didn't think it was the proper term for something covering a distance.

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