Why is the "FRIEZA" spelling wrong?

[Hujio]

I think the reason why "Bulla" hasn't been filtered is because it's an accurate transliteration, despite the fact that it misses the pun.

What?! An accurate transliteration?! The two aren't even pronounced the same! Just... wow. No. I'd love to see an explanation behind that reasoning. And I believe the reason the name isn't filtered is because Mike forgot about it. I know he hates it just as much as I do.

EDIT: Hey, we were typing at the same time... weird.

[Adamant]

The best pun-based transliteration for ブルマ would be "Blooma." Toriyama likely had no idea (and didn't care) how "bloomers" was spelled in English, so he just played with the katakana ブルマー and romanized it any which way.

Those gym shorts things he took her name from are frequently called ブルマ. All her family members are named directly after some form of underwear with no change in spelling, so it's doubtful he attempted to tweak the spelling any. It's just the word.

[Amigo Ten]

Just like "Bra" and "Bulla". In which case debate turns to which one is correct.

Except in that case, romanization aside, one is pronounced correctly ("Bra"), and the other is not in its complacent and/or ignorant fandom stemming from one particular company changing it out of "necessity"/"censoring" ("BULL - uh").

...yeah. That's what I was saying. We have two terms in popular use (don't see much GT discussion, but I presume Bulla is used much like the other Funi names are), so people either go with that they're used to, or try to figure out which one is correct.

While "Bulma" may not be the ideal way to preserve the pun, there's no/very little debate about what her name should be, because Bulma is already universally accepted.

[Olivier Hague]

I think the reason why "Bulla" hasn't been filtered is because it's an accurate transliteration, despite the fact that it misses the pun.

What?! An accurate transliteration?! The two aren't even pronounced the same!

They both fit the kana spelling/pronunciation.
Who's to say how that name is supposed to be spelled in alphabet though? Or how it should be pronounced exactly, outside of Japanese phonetics?
The spelling "Bra" is simply closer to the original pun (... well, it's the exact same word). That doesn't necessarily make it "the correct spelling".

[linkdude20002001]

He's romanized クリリン at least two different ways, for God's sake.

I only recall him using Kulilin. What's the other spelling he used? And where?

[Hujio]

I just don't even know where to begin with how absurd some of this is getting... It's like things are just being said to try to piss people off, or something... Or people have no clue what they're talking about. Which is sad, because I almost always agree with you, Olivier. So it's really disheartening to have to say all this to you...

They both fit the kana spelling/pronunciation.

They do?! That's news to me...

Who's to say how that name is supposed to be pronounced in alphabet though? Or how it should be pronounced exactly, outside of Japanese phonetics?

I'd say everyone that knows Japanese and can speak both languages. This stuff isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty easy to figure out. Bra's name is spelled and pronounced the same as the bra undergarment. I don't think there's much discussion about how it's pronounced in alphabet.

The spelling "Bra" is simply closer to the original pun (... well, it's the exact same word). That doesn't necessarily make it "the correct spelling".

Last I checked, it's not only closer to the original pun, it is the pun! Just like Trunks is his name, and therefore also the pun.

[Olivier Hague]

They both fit the kana spelling/pronunciation.

They do?!

Well, yeah? ^^;

Bra's name is spelled and pronounced the same as the bra undergarment.

In Japanese, yes.

The spelling "Bra" is simply closer to the original pun (... well, it's the exact same word). That doesn't necessarily make it "the correct spelling".

Last I checked, it's not only closer to the original pun, it is the pun!

Which is why I said "well, it's the exact same word"...
Thing is, just because the name is spelled like the word it's based on in kana, that doesn't necessarily mean the author would also spell it like the original English word in alphabet. I understand why you'd make that educated guess, sure, but it would still be a guess. You don't really know for sure.


As a side-note, in my previous message, I said this:

Who's to say how that name is supposed to be pronounced in alphabet though?

... and that doesn't make sense. Whoops.
What I meant to say was "Who's to say how that name is supposed to be spelled in alphabet though?"
I just fixed that. Sorry about the inconvenience.

[linkdude20002001]

They both fit the kana spelling/pronunciation.

They do?!

Well, yeah? ^^;

How would Bulla be pronounced in Japanese? ブラ (Bura). So, I don't know what Hujio's talking about...

Bra's name is spelled and pronounced the same as the bra undergarment.

In Japanese, yes.

Her name is Bra, just like Trunks is trunks and Brief is briefs (Brief is how the Japanese say briefs). Unless Toriyama gives us an official spelling (like he did with Bulma), we can't go changing her name. If it's Bra in Japanese, it's Bra in English.

Thing is, just because the name is spelled like the word it's based on in kana, that doesn't necessarily mean the author would also spell it like the original English word in alphabet. I understand why you'd make that educated guess, sure, but it would still be a guess. You don't really know for sure.

Again, unless Toriyama gives us an official spelling, we can't go changing her name. In a case like Bra, one must go with the most logical spelling. There's nothing more we can do. It's not the official spelling, but it's the best.

[Olivier Hague]

How would Bulla be pronounced in Japanese? ブラ (Bura). So, I don't know what Hujio's talking about...

I guess there would be other possibilities (depending on the language, for example)... but yeah, "ブラ" would be among them. I'm not seeing the problem either, here. ^^;

Her name is Bra, just like Trunks is trunks and Brief is briefs

Maybe, but not necessarily.

unless Toriyama gives us an official spelling, we can't go changing her name.

It was in kana to begin with and you spelled it in alphabet: that's a change already, right there. ^^

In a case like Bra, one must go with the most logical spelling. There's nothing more we can do. It's not the official spelling, but it's the best.

Ah. See, we can agree, here. No "official word" means we'll have to take a guess, and I would also consider "Bra" to be the best guess, indeed.
But just because it's, as far as we can tell, the best guess, the most logical one (according to us, anyway, but I think our reasoning is pretty sound), that doesn't necessarily make it "The One Correct Spelling". That doesn't necessarily make the other spellings wrong.
That's the point I've been trying to make for... heh, I stopped counting. ^^;;

[Hujio]

How would Bulla be pronounced in Japanese? ブラ (Bura). So, I don't know what Hujio's talking about...

I believe "bulla" is written in Japanese as ブッラ (burra) and "bra" is written as ブラ (bura). There's this quaint little town in Italy, named Bulla. There's also the Golden Temple of Dambulla (ダンブッラ; danburra) in Sri Lanka. I could see how you might possibly get "bulla" from ブラ (bura), but it seems like such a stretch, especially in this case.

Just for the Hell of it (because as this conversation has shown, proof won't make a lick of difference), here's Toriyama's thoughts from DragonBall Forever: "From the others you can see that Bulma's family have underwear-related names, so obviously hers is from brassiere."

I mean, come on...

Thing is, just because the name is spelled like the word it's based on in kana, that doesn't necessarily mean the author would also spell it like the original English word in alphabet. I understand why you'd make that educated guess, sure, but it would still be a guess. You don't really know for sure.

I just don't see the need to say, "Well, we don't know for sure, so you can't say it's wrong or correct". With that logic, any character's name is open to interpretation, even those that are written by the author himself. Everyone questions his ability to write in English, so why trust anything he says or writes? I don't see the logic behind half of these arguments. They just seem asinine in the least. Your basically saying that every naming convention can be thrown out. Do you realize what a can of worms that would open? I just think it's pretty clear that her name is Bra. Why even argue her name is anything else?

Anyway, I think I'm going to be taking a break from this thread. It just doesn't seem worth it anymore. As long as Toriyama hasn't written a name in English for a character whose name has the exact same spelling as the word it's based off of, that's what I'm using. That way I'm at least consistent. And this is no offense to you Olivier, because I completely understand where you're coming from. But it all seems like too much of a stretch for us to assume Toriyama had anything other than those words as their names in mind. You have to draw the line somewhere, right? Nothing is official, and everything is wrong, but also correct.

[Olivier Hague]

I could see how you might possibly get "bulla" from ブラ (bura)

Oh, you definitely can.

Just for the Hell of it (because as this conversation has shown, proof won't make a lick of difference), here's Toriyama's thoughts from DragonBall Forever: "From the others you can see that Bulma's family have underwear-related names, so obviously hers is from brassiere."
I mean, come on...

"Come on", indeed... I mean, did you seriously think I didn't know the pun was on "bra"? ^__^;

I just don't see the need to say, "Well, we don't know for sure, so you can't say it's wrong or correct".

Well, it's true, for one thing? ^_^;
And if you look back at what this topic is about in the first place... How can you tell an alphabet spelling of a character's name is wrong? Not just "odd", "unintuitive", "needlessly convoluted", but plain wrong? Who's to say?

With that logic, any character's name is open to interpretation, even those that are written by the author himself.

Of course not. How many times did I say that it was up to the author in the end, in this topic? ^^;;
I mean... Unless they introduce an inconsistency of some kind (in which case they would be up for debate indeed), I don't see how one can argue that the author's spellings are "wrong".

Everyone questions his ability to write in English, so why trust anything he says or writes?

Urgh... Again, why bring this up at all, here? They're names. -__-;;

I just think it's pretty clear that her name is Bra. Why even argue her name is anything else?

Like I just said, if you think "Bra" is the best guess, I agree with you. I do think it's the best guess.
I'm simply reminding people that even best guesses are just guesses, at the end of the day. I think it's important to keep that in mind. Please don't go around claiming your best guess is "the correct spelling", and such or such spelling is wrong, on the other hand. ^^;

As long as Toriyama hasn't written a name in English for a character whose name has the exact same spelling as the word it's based off of, that's what I'm using. That way I'm at least consistent.

Naturally. I believe we agree on that.

[Gaffer Tape]

Like I just said, if you think "Bra" is the best guess, I agree with you. I do think it's the best guess.
I'm simply reminding people that even best guesses are just guesses, at the end of the day. I think it's important to keep that in mind. Please don't go around claiming your best guess is "the correct spelling", and such or such spelling is wrong, on the other hand. ^^;

Since this thread seems to be dying off a bit, I'd like to take the chance to restate that my posts have pretty much been along the same lines as Olivier here. I mean, in general, I've agreed with most of what Hujio, Desire, et al, have said in this thread. I don't agree with Fr ieza, and I certainly don't agree that Bulla is the appropriate translation. For me, this thread has given me a chance to think, to re-evalute a lot of the stuff, a lot of the naming conventions that I've long since taken for granted as being correct. And that's what I had been trying to bring to the table in this discussion.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I think the reason why "Bulla" hasn't been filtered is because it's an accurate transliteration, despite the fact that it misses the pun.

What?! An accurate transliteration?! The two aren't even pronounced the same! Just... wow. No. I'd love to see an explanation behind that reasoning. And I believe the reason the name isn't filtered is because Mike forgot about it. I know he hates it just as much as I do.

EDIT: Hey, we were typing at the same time... weird.

"Bulla" is simply changing the "r" in "Bura" to a double "l". I know a better transliteration would be "Bula" since there's no sokuon, but adding an extra "l" isn't going to change the pronounciation too much.

I know the "Bulla" spelling misses the pun, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, since "bura" is the Japanese way of saying the English word "bra," and the joke is clearly the the undergarment, it's wrong in the sense that it misses the point, even though it's a "possible" way of playing telephone game with turning the world bra into Japanese and back into English. But again, I feel the same thing applies to "Bulma."

[linkdude20002001]

Her name is Bra, just like Trunks is trunks and Brief is briefs

Maybe, but not necessarily.

What I meant was, in Japanese that's their names. There is absolutely no difference between their names and the English words written in Japanese.

It was in kana to begin with and you spelled it in alphabet: that's a change already, right there. ^^

Well, by "change", I meant make it different from the actual word. Since there isn't an official spelling, we don't have the right to go changing the name/word to a more unique name like Bulma or Bulla. If their name is an English word, then the best we can do is to just leave it as is until Toriyama gives us an official spelling.

Ah. See, we can agree, here. No "official word" means we'll have to take a guess, and I would also consider "Bra" to be the best guess, indeed.
But just because it's, as far as we can tell, the best guess, the most logical one (according to us, anyway, but I think our reasoning is pretty sound), that doesn't necessarily make it "The One Correct Spelling". That doesn't necessarily make the other spellings wrong.
That's the point I've been trying to make for... heh, I stopped counting. ^^;;

I agree with that. I don't consider very many to be "official". I think the only ones I do consider official are Gokuh, Bulma, Yamcha, and Kulilin. As far as I can remember, those are the only ones used by Toriyama.

[Kendamu]

I think the reason why "Bulla" hasn't been filtered is because it's an accurate transliteration, despite the fact that it misses the pun.

What?! An accurate transliteration?! The two aren't even pronounced the same! Just... wow. No. I'd love to see an explanation behind that reasoning. And I believe the reason the name isn't filtered is because Mike forgot about it. I know he hates it just as much as I do.

EDIT: Hey, we were typing at the same time... weird.

"Bulla" is simply changing the "r" in "Bura" to a double "l". I know a better transliteration would be "Bula" since there's no sokuon, but adding an extra "l" isn't going to change the pronounciation too much.

I know the "Bulla" spelling misses the pun, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

What seems to be the point here is... well, here's an example.

Mya name is Josh. It's spelled "Josh." While you could get the same pronunciation out of "Jahsh," "Jawsh," or "Jash," my name is Josh. It comes from "Joshua" which is a Christian biblical name and it was chosen deliberately by my religious parents. To spell my name any other way may be "right" in terms of how it's pronounced, but when you spell it any other way it loses its direct connection to what inspired my name.

In terms of Dragonball, this is why Freeza is "Freeza" and Bra is "Bra." While there are a few exceptions to this rule, those exceptions stem from pronunciation issues or they've been a big part of English-speaking Dragonball fandom for so long that it's become accepted even amongst the most hardcore Japanese version nerds.

In the case of "Bulla," GT has a hard enough time being accepted and Bra isn't exactly such a popular character that her dub name has a free pass like Buruma's "Bulma" spelling does.

In the case of "Freeza," it preserves the pun and the guy who runs this board prefers to preserve the pun. If any of us don't feel like playing by the rules of the guys who provide us with a place to bitch and nerd out about Dragonball and you really wanna use the dub spelling that badly, you'll just have to take your name issues elsewhere where dub spellings of certain names are acceptable.

It's the same logic as to how many of us go elsewhere to talk to each other about things not related to Dragonball. If you wanna do something that's not permitted here, go elsewhere and have fun doing whatever it is you need to do that won't be tolerated here.

[Amigo Ten]

I agree with that. I don't consider very many to be "official". I think the only ones I do consider official are Gokuh, Bulma, Yamcha, and Kulilin. As far as I can remember, those are the only ones used by Toriyama.

He uses "Kuririn" as well.

[Amigo Ten]

He also used "Goku" on the cover of chapter #205, for what it's worth.

[linkdude20002001]

No...!! Please tell me that's just Viz changing things! If Toriyama used both, then which one am I supposed to use?!

Ahh! And "Goku" too?! *_*

[Gaffer Tape]

Just to make sure, is that from the Viz version? I know they rewrote the "Kulilin" cap in volume 21 to read "Kuririn."