If an accurate re-dub surfaced, would you watch it?

[Majin Buu]

I'd rather watch paint dry with Faulconer's score.

This. An accurate re-dub of Z would have to have the original music for me to even consider watching it. No Faulconer crap. And even if it did, I wouldn't end up watching it over the Japanese version. I'd finally respect it as a good dub, but I still wouldn't care to watch it over the Japanese version.

[Adamant]

An English dub? Nah, not really. An episode or two for curiosity's sake, maybe, but not being 5 years old, I see no need for dubs.

So what? If you're over the age of five, you can't watch dubs?

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

[VegettoEX]

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

Cue "watch in my own native language" argument.

Not that I agree with it or feel it even makes any sense, but that's the sole, common retort... though it seems to be primarily an American (or at least natively-English-speaking) culture thing.

[Cipher]

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

Because it's clearly a matter of preference? There's something to be said for respecting the original, but no one's obligated to prefer it to a native-language dub.

I like Godzilla movies better dubbed. Every once in a while I'll watch one in its original form, but I don't enjoy it as much.

Or you have series like Hellsing or Big O, to use some well-known examples, which are Japanese-produced but take place in western settings. An English voice cast actually adds a lot to those series, not to detract from the originals.

though it seems to be primarily an American (or at least natively-English-speaking) culture thing.

That seems a bit loaded. Every country dubs imported media, Japan included. And as in America, people in those countries continue to enjoy watching dubbed media.

[VegettoEX]

though it seems to be primarily an American (or at least natively-English-speaking) culture thing.

That seems a bit loaded. Every country dubs imported media, Japan included. And as in America, people in those countries continue to enjoy watching dubbed media.

Is it? Look at Adamant -- where he's from, he's stated that dubs are primarily just for the kiddie-fare, and above that, it's pretty much assumed that everyone's just going to watch stuff subbed... right?

No-one's saying that dubs don't exist in these areas, but they're the anomaly in the greater viewership.

[Cipher]

No-one's saying that dubs don't exist in these areas, but they're the anomaly in the greater viewership.

I suppose that's true. I think it has a lot to do with the history of television and cinema in those countries. Most began by importing western material, whereas the west didn't begin familiarizing themselves with foreign media for quite some time. Probably created different expectations.

That said, there are still very valid reasons to watch a dub other than "I dun leik readin' wordz on mah screen."

EDIT - Although I see what you're saying in the case of Dragon Ball. It's a very Japanese series (in tone and influence) and the original voices already fit just fine. Why go over it again with an English cast if you can read the subtitles? I guess there really isn't an answer other than, in this case, I'd get a sense of curious joy out of hearing a good dub in my own language. So I concede in this specific example.

[Nils_McCloud]

Is it? Look at Adamant -- where he's from, he's stated that dubs are primarily just for the kiddie-fare, and above that, it's pretty much assumed that everyone's just going to watch stuff subbed... right?

No-one's saying that dubs don't exist in these areas, but they're the anomaly in the greater viewership.

Same thing here in Flanders, Belgium. Our country's too small for dubbing to be really worth it (not enough profits), unless it's kiddie-fare. Hell, even video-games get released in English here without any effort made for a translation. That's why, even if I say so myself, my knowledge of the English language is above average.

But for the purposes of remaining on topic: if an accurate dub is to be made, yes, I will delightfully watch it. In fact, that just may be the deal-breaker for me buying the Kai Blu-rays.

[Adamant]

Because it's clearly a matter of preference? There's something to be said for respecting the original, but no one's obligated to prefer it to a native-language dub.

I see this explanation. I never see any argument for it besides "argh, won't let any dirty foreign words enter my xenophobic ears". Of course there's no obligation, but why would people not want to see a given movie in it's original, "real" version. Makes as much sense as watching an airplane edit of a movie - it's clearly produced for a reason, and it can be an acceptable substitute if it's all that's being offered for the sake of the audience, but why would you consciously choose it above the original if both are available?

Or you have series like Hellsing or Big O, to use some well-known examples, which are Japanese-produced but take place in western settings. An English voice cast actually adds a lot to those series, not to detract from the originals.

I've seen this too, and I can't make any more sense of it than of the above.
Here's a question for you: Would you rather watch Valkyrie in it's original English format, or a German dub with English subtitles? The movie takes place in Germany, and all the characters are "speaking" German, but I have my doubts anyone would say that dub "adds a lot" to the movie.

That seems a bit loaded. Every country dubs imported media, Norway included. And as in America, people in Norway continue to enjoy watching dubbed media.

(Rewrote your quote a bit to make my point more clear. I did not change it's message to make it look like you said something you didn't.)

No, dubs are solely for children here. Any and all attempts to produce a dub targeted at an older audience has been met with protest and massive ridicule.

[Cipher]

I've seen this too, and I can't make any more sense of it than of the above.
Here's a question for you: Would you rather watch Valkyrie in it's original English format, or a German dub with English subtitles? The movie takes place in Germany, and all the characters are "speaking" German, but I have my doubts anyone would say that dub "adds a lot" to the movie.

Well, hell. That's actually a really good point.

I'll say this: If I was German, I might be inclined to enjoy the German dub more, as it would both add something to the feel and be in my native language. Otherwise, and even then, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

For the record, I've never thought that a dub should ever supersede the original. The original is always, always the more artistically merit-able version, if only because it reflects the actual intent. I just can't begrudge preferring another version for whatever reason.

Basically, I lose this argument. I just can't see caring enough to tell anyone, "Hey, you can't watch that!"

[Gaffer Tape]

This is one of those loaded arguments that will probably get out of hand really soon. But until that explosion occurs, why not keep going with as much decorum as possible? As for me, I agree completely with Adamant. Why would anyone want to watch anything other than the original, real version of anything? I do my best to respect people who just don't fall into that line of thinking, but I admit I find it quite silly. Sorry. However, I do accept that there are a lot of people who feel that way, so my expectations are that dubs be as true to the original as possible.

If I ever got offered a job as a voice actor to dub anime, would I take it? Hells yeah. Would I enjoy it? Sure. Would I still think the practice is silly and unnecessary? Definitely.

[Freeza Heika]

Why would anyone want to watch anything other than the original, real version of anything? I do my best to respect people who just don't fall into that line of thinking, but I admit I find it quite silly. Sorry. However, I do accept that there are a lot of people who feel that way, so my expectations are that dubs be as true to the original as possible.

I think that for a lot of people it isn't a matter of original or dub (except for some people who get it in their heads that the Japanese is ALWAYS better). I think it is more about which one they find first. For me anyway, If a dub is on TV, that is the version I like, but if I find a show through fansubs, then Japanese is the way I will watch it.

Except for the rare occasion where I am converted from one to the other or at least grow to like it as much as what I already know.

[SylentEcho]

But, a renewed DB and DBGT dub without obnoxious excess talking? Hell yeah.

You have no idea how irritating that can be. I try to give the dub a chance once in a while, but when I hear something like that, I just get angry and switch audio tracks immediately.

[B]

But, a renewed DB and DBGT dub without obnoxious excess talking? Hell yeah.

You have no idea how irritating that can be. I try to give the dub a chance once in a while, but when I hear something like that, I just get angry and switch audio tracks immediately.

I mean, it's a little better in GT, becuase that has the Menza score, and it's orcehstrated to the dub's dialog, but in Dragon Ball, it's all so jarring and disconnected; accuracy be damned.

[OutlawTorn]

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

Cue "watch in my own native language" argument.

Not that I agree with it or feel it even makes any sense, but that's the sole, common retort... though it seems to be primarily an American (or at least natively-English-speaking) culture thing.

Well, what's wrong with that reason? I can certainly respect people choosing to watch anime subtitled, but not everybody likes watching the Japanese version. Just as everybody else doesn't have to defend their preferences, I don't have to defend mine and I just happen to like to watch my anime dubbed, occasionally checking the original version out of curiosity.

It comes across as a superiority complex when people try to make out that people who don't agree with them on such issues are wrong or that there is something wrong with them. I don't care one bit about a dub vs. sub debate because it doesn't affect me if somebody else would rather watch something subbed and how could my preference to watch something dubbed possibly affect the enjoyment of someone who prefers to watch it subbed?

However, I do accept that there are a lot of people who feel that way, so my expectations are that dubs be as true to the original as possible.

I agree entirely with this sentiment. Naturally, we won't get word for word literal translations as there are differences between Japanese and English which would make it awkward, but with both versions available on DVD and Blu-ray, it's much easier for people to spot deviations than it used to be.

[MCDaveG]

If the new dub will surface, I'll probably say...... LEAVE ME OUT OF THIS YOU DAMNED MORONS, because I saw Dragon Ball series 3 times over! German and French dub simultaneously, Japanese dub and US dub with my GF, because we weren't able to get it in Japanese and after that she said: Damn, that was idiotic, I saw some clips from Japanese dub but I don't have power to watch this series again!!!
Damn, I'm too out of power, if they'll make proper dub in english, they can frankly stick it to their asses after those years.
I don't know, but I have a feeling that Dragon Ball ate Funimation's money, which they should have used on more then one series.

[TonyTheTiger]

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

Cue "watch in my own native language" argument.

Not that I agree with it or feel it even makes any sense, but that's the sole, common retort... though it seems to be primarily an American (or at least natively-English-speaking) culture thing.

That's completely untrue. Movies and TV shows are often dubbed when sent over to other countries, regardless of the language. And despite live action usually working out terribly as far as dubbing goes, it's done anyway. It certainly doesn't work out nearly as smoothly as animation. You can go on YouTube and look up clips of Friends in Spanish and Batman Beyond in Japanese. It's incredibly common and I can only assume it's because of a preference for the native tongue.

And for the record, the whole "original language" argument can be equally dubious under certain circumstances. For instance, Tenchi Muyo in Love and Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust were recorded in English first. Then you have stuff like the Cartoon Network produced second season of Big O and the Warner Bros. produced Batman: Gotham Knight. What language is "original" there? And of course you have Metal Gear Solid in which the English language track is generally accepted as superior, even by the creator. Point is, it's easy to throw a wrench in every proposed reason.

I think it's important for any discussion like this to remain rational that everyone acknowledge their "reasons" are all bullshit. They're just attempted justifications for something that amounts to personal taste and can easily result in wonky results when unusual circumstances arise conflicting with the proposed reason. You can't really defend taste so we use the "original language," "in my own language," "sounds better" and other arguments as approximations that don't really say much beyond "I prefer this just because I do."

[Gaffer Tape]

That's probably true to a certain extent, but that's far too blanketing a statement to make. If my main intention was to justify my personal taste, I probably never would have found the Japanese version in the first place. I was introduced to the series through the dub and was a fan of it for well over a year before I even made an attempt to find the Japanese version. And why? Simply because I became aware that the Japanese version was the original, and I wanted to see the real, original version instead of some other country's dub of it. So I don't really see how that argument applies to me.

And Tenchi Muyo in Love was recorded in English first? I need to look into that...

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm not saying that seeking out the original because it's original is bullshit. I actually do the same for things I have a lot of appreciation for. Actually, something I like to do is look on YouTube for different dubs of various cartoons and Disney movies just to see what they sound like. So I perfectly understand how something being original could be attractive just as much as I understand wanting to hear different dubs, like having an interest in the Japanese take on what Jafar should sound like, for instance.

I'm not talking about seeking something out as much as I'm talking preference. What I'm getting at is that a person who says they prefer the Japanese version specifically because it's original (and presumably only for that reason) is saying it without fully considering the ramifications of the statement. Because if it is indeed true that they prefer the original language, regardless of what language it is, then logic dictates that they should prefer the English track for Tenchi Muyo in Love while simultaneously preferring the Japanese track for the TV show and other movies. But who in his right mind does that?

Sure, if somebody really walks the walk then more power to them. They're taking the "original language" stance pretty true to form. But, truth be told, that would actually be kind of weird. I remember once bringing this up with somebody and they had to backpedal and redefine what they meant by "original language." It would be disingenuous for me to say I didn't get at least a little kick out of backing that person into a corner but it's not like I set out to embarrass him. I was just proud that I made a good argument. But it actually is bigger than me having a Vegeta pride moment. I have a genuine academic interest in this topic because I really do wonder if what people mean when they say "original language" is really shorthand for something more akin to "language I'd expect from an anime made by Japanese people" or some other pro-Japanese reason that's not entirely congruent with "original."

In other words, the real reason people prefer Japanese might have more to do with the language being Japanese than the statement "original language" implies. That people who want to hear Japanese will defend it with "original language" because 99% of the time Japanese is the original language. But when it's not, they still want to hear Japanese because the "original language" stance was not necessarily reflecting what they're really thinking. Are they thinking "the language the script was written in"? Are they thinking "the language Japanese people listen to"? I don't know the answer but I'm just saying that "original language" might not mean what it sounds like it means.

And, yeah, Tenchi Muyo in Love was recorded in English first due to some weird scheduling thing, I think. Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust might be a better example because not only was it recorded in English first but it was actually first shown in Japan in English with Japanese subs. I think the Animatrix might also fall into this category. And forget Batman: Gotham Knight and Halo Legends. These "western animes" are kind of hard to pin down as far as original language goes. Yeah, I'll watch it with both tracks and might prefer one to the other. But I'd be kidding myself if I tried defending my preference by saying it's "original."

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Of course you can, but why would you? You can read, the original version is present with subtitles... why bother with a dub?

1) It's in my own native language. 2) I can focus more on the action. 3) I don't have to read subtitles (when I want to do something else at the same time, like eating). 4) Humour is gotten across better. 4) Character personalities and moods are more understood.... etc.

[VegettoEX]

1) It's in my own native language.

And there it is! But what does this actually do for you...? This, alone, by itself, is absolutely nothing other than a statement of fact -- it's a state of being. Yes, it's now in English. But... what about it? This by itself says nothing -- it's only the backdrop for your other points.

2) I can focus more on the action.

We've been over this in plenty of threads. People get offended with the answers, but that's too bad. If you're even remotely literate, your brain absorbs the subtitles at the bottom of the screen faster than the characters are verbally stating it aloud. This has to do with the way that our brains interpret written language (by the shape of entire words, rather than by individual "letters"). There is plenty of time for you to absorb the subtitles *and* the "action" on-screen... especially older shows (we are primarily talking about DBZ, here) that are only being animated at ~12 fps, anyway. If you're "missing" something, it's because you can't read well enough.

Also... every other country in the world who's totally got subtitles ingrained in their accepted culture is laughing at those who don't .

3) I don't have to read subtitles (when I want to do something else at the same time, like eating).

Probably the only across-the-board legitimate retort, right here.

4) Humour is gotten across better.

Is it? How? Are you talking about the subtleties of spoken language? It certainly can't be body language, since it's animated and a dubbing voice actor isn't going to showcase that body language any differently. I'd then argue that if the translator handling the subtitles can't get across these subtleties and nuances somehow, then you're right -- that subtitle track isn't worth watching. I'd then question whether or not I want the company who can't hire a proficient subtitler handling the dub for the show, though...

5) Character personalities and moods are more understood.... etc.

What does this even mean? It seems like your #4 and #5 are the exact same thing ("I UNDERSTAND THEM MORE!"), but you're stretching for some other addition to your list.

None of what I'm talking about right here even has to do with the "quality" of dubs and whether or not they're enjoyable to watch, mind you. This is solely about subtitles on-screen. They're two entirely different subject matters and rounds of discussion, but they do see to be inextricably linked... (which is totally understandable)...

Anyway, we covered the original question of the thread way back on Episode #0082 of the podcast. Our conclusion was that we don't have the time to dedicate to re-watching the entire series in some other language than Japanese at this point in our lives, and we already have a version that we love, so what would be the point of it...?

Broken record here, though:

• Is said product an adaptation? Check.
• Original version exists somewhere? Check.
• Which would I rather/primarily watch? Original version.
• Can I read? Check.
• End of line.