MR.Mark wrote:Now we're just going in circles in this debate.
If you consider that going in circles, okay. I already posted evidence countering:
In the end, Son Goku proved his point, that they were not equals. As shooting ki at each other is completely different than exchanging fisticuffs. When the real fighting began AKA "the body blow battle" as Freeza put it. Goku started dominating, because at that point, he choose to end the fight and got completely serious. He was through humiliating Freeza, and the planet was about to blow, so he quit soon after whooping his ass.
That was one of the main points of Son Goku's entire last speech, that Freeza was NO match for him in the end, even at his 100% best. It was everything Freeza feared, coming true, his worst nightmare. Being defeated by a Super Saiyan and utterly humiliated by a force he was in denial about for most of his life. To suggest Freeza was equal with the legendary Super Saiyan, who's very destiny was to defeat him, just takes away from the story.
I countered all of this with pictures from the manga, and even counted landed hits to see how they stacked up to boot. And it turned up relatively even. Why do you keep on ignoring this?
As a matter of fact, each time I've pointed this out you've still ignored it, and insisted that Goku was vastly superior anyway. But where is your proof? Besides the proof that has been countered, I mean?
This is were the debate ends for me and we agree to disagree, I've backed up my opinions, so I take my leave.
Well, if you insist. Although I really think there could have been a conclusion to this if you held out a little longer.
Godo wrote:The fight itself was very evenly matched, but mainly because of Freeza's cheap shots.
What cheap shots occurred? If you want to double check their manga fight, I posted it on one of the previous pages. There weren't any cheap shots, and the exchange in total hits was still relatively even.
But their powers weren't very evenly matched. To be very evenly matched, the difference between their powers should have a difference of around 1,000,000 - 5,000,000. But their difference was much higher, 30,000,000.
Well if you're going to bring up the Daizenshuu battle powers, then I suppose that's fine... according to the Daizenshuu, such a difference in power is still considered "Rivaled". As the cultivars were considered to have battle powers that rivaled Raditz'. The Daizenshuu and manga both state this, while the Daiz gives a battle power of 1,500 to Raditz, and we all know the Cultivars are at 1,200. Coincidentally, this is the exact same difference as the battle powers given to Goku vs Freeza. 1.25x. But it's still considered to be a similar level of power to the Daizenshuu.
What's more, you really shouldn't be putting what a databook says in higher regard than the actual fight. What was shown was that they were closely matched in the manga, maybe the Daizenshuu numbers don't tell the same story.
Still, the Daizenshuu's numbers explain why Goku wasn't out of breath against Freeza. If he had a higher power, then surely he would have a higher stamina during the fight.
If they were more or less equal, then Goku would be in a pretty bad state too.
That would actually take some time to happen, which they didn't have a lot of to do battle. I mean, they only fought for an actual total of like three minutes (Shave off two for some talking and the whole Porunga thing)
The whole reason Freeza himself was tired was because of his insufficient 100% bulk, which Goku himself states that Freeza wears out far too quickly because of. This is why only Freeza was tired, and Goku was not.
As for the differences between battle powers, it's best not to think too much about them as it can become a real headache. Especially if you try to make the Daizenshuu numbers work.
