2 General Questions

[Shiyonasan]

EDIT: Oh, so NOW the post decides to show up a day later. I see how it is....

Ignore this double post.

[Shiyonasan]

I liked Majin Vegeta. It just seemed lame that after the fight it was all "Yeah I'm good again." If it were something more of the lines of him sensing Buu attacking Kid Trunks, it probably would have been more acceptable. But bleh...

BTW I love your Gohan avatar.

I liked him too, and I agree with you. I liked how it brought out the old Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. But I digress....

And I love my Gohan avatar too. I made it from The Time Traveller's VLC snap in this thread.

EDIT: The first time I tried to post this, it didn't show up on the main topic page, but it shows up on the replying page section showing posts and in my post listing, so it looks like a double post. It's not showing up as a double post for any of you, is it?

[Kid Buu]

It's not a double post when I'm viewing the thread, but it is when I look at the replying page section.

[Shiyonasan]

It's not a double post when I'm viewing the thread, but it is when I look at the replying page section.

Okay, that's good. When I click on the first post, it goes straight to the second one that I just made. How strange...

Anyway, I don't want to derail the topic, so carry on!

[Rocketman]

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a Mystic Yajirobe, or a Mystic Yamcha!

Yeah, like Yamcha has any hidden power.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, Yamucha has no useful skills at all... except swordsmanship, expert ki manipulation, the tutelage of multiple gods and other deities, utility of weapons and vehicles, and don't forget a kickass tailor!

[Kid Buu]

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a Mystic Yajirobe, or a Mystic Yamcha!

Yeah, like Yamcha has any hidden power.

Well, Dimps and Spike certainly thinks so. You can beat Majin Buu with Yamcha if you choreograph your fingers with the control pad's buttons correctly.

Yeah...moving on now....

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a Mystic Yajirobe, or a Mystic Yamcha!

Yeah, like Yamcha has any hidden power.

Well, Dimps and Spike certainly thinks so. You can beat Majin Buu with Yamcha if you choreograph your fingers with the control pad's buttons correctly.

Yeah...moving on now....

You can beat Majin Boo with fricking Raditts. It's not a particularly hard thing to do.

[The Time Traveller]

I like Goten and Trunks, they're true bros like Booster Gold and Blue Beetle, and I don't think they're over powered, they're at the right strength for anyone at their age with Super Saiyan fathers. Need I bring up Super Saiyan Sperm yet again?! Without them I don't think the Boo arc would be that good, it needed some new characters. Even if one of them isn't really new...

[Godo]

I liked Majin Vegeta. It just seemed lame that after the fight it was all "Yeah I'm good again." If it were something more of the lines of him sensing Buu attacking Kid Trunks, it probably would have been more acceptable. But bleh...

BTW I love your Gohan avatar.

Well, he even said that he became taken over by Babidi for the power itself, to be equal with Goku. Goku even mentioned that Vegeta hadn't let himself be fully overtaken by Babidi, and it had to do only with the power, not with him wanting to be evil.
During Vegeta's famous speech, Goku mentions that Vegeta is lying, and Vegeta is like "how did you know that?".

Why's that? You wouldn't just accept it if Toriyama had someone state that the Majin state came with some amazingly significant power-up combined with Piccolo's former demon heritage/godly powers? I mean, this is pretty basic stuff for this series. You can always come up with some ass-pull justification for why someone's strong enough. I actually wish Toriyama had used it more often. It could have kept the human characters relevant.

Come to think of it, the last time Piccolo had his hidden powers drawn out was...never! Piccolo hasn't got his hidden powers drawn out since he was born! NEVER!
That could have been an awesome plot device...

The whole "Mighty Mask" deal is really overkill and not in the least one bit funny. I understand filler, but come on... It's even worse than the Bulma and the crab stuff. It does get a little better when Goten and Trunks fight #18, though.

It wasn't filler though...in the manga we see Goten and Trunks discussing about participating in the adults tournament, knock "Mighty Mask" out, and fight C18.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a Mystic Yajirobe, or a Mystic Yamcha!

Yeah, like Yamcha has any hidden power.

I don't know if I remember this right, but didn't Yamcha, Kuririn and Tenshinhan go up the Karin tower and have their hidden powers drawn out or was that only the climbing training?

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

The whole "Mighty Mask" deal is really overkill and not in the least one bit funny. I understand filler, but come on... It's even worse than the Bulma and the crab stuff. It does get a little better when Goten and Trunks fight #18, though.

It wasn't filler though...in the manga we see Goten and Trunks discussing about participating in the adults tournament, knock "Mighty Mask" out, and fight C18.

Oh, so that was in fact something from the manga? I just figured it wasn't because of how stupid it all was. I assume, then, that the whole bathroom skit between Goten, Trunks and the ring announcer was anime-only filler? Thanks for clearing that up, though!

[Gaffer Tape]

Need I bring up Super Saiyan Sperm yet again?!

Please don't ever bring that up again, especially not when I'm eating.

[jordanator]

Need I bring up Super Saiyan Sperm yet again?!

Please don't ever bring that up again, especially not when I'm eating.

I think I missed that one, would you kindly run through it again?

[The Time Traveller]

I think I missed that one, would you kindly run through it again?

Goten was conceived when Goku was a Super Saiyan, Trunks too, most likely, or when Vegeta was on the verge of becoming Super Saiyan. So there's no reason to call them over powered.

[Kid Buu]

Is it ever stated that Goku/Vegeta being SSj when Goten and Trunks were conceived gave them a power up? Not that I doubt you, I don't even remember hearing that in the series.

You can beat Majin Boo with fricking Raditts. It's not a particularly hard thing to do.

Then Raditz got potential too! Lets go remake the Bardock special with a chibi Raditz in it.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Going on the whole Majin Piccolo thing, I think it would have been too little too late. If the Buu saga came about the same time as the Freeza Saga or Saiyan sagan, then sure that would be epic. However, this late in the game Piccolo is an already established good guy you would get a lot of "Oh yeah, he was a bad guy once wasn't he?" reactions from fans. Vegeta on the other hand is a more recent inclusion to the "Z fighter team...thing" He was still a bad guy in the Freeza saga and in the Cell saga he wanted nothing to do with anybody. It wasn't until the Buu saga that he started settling down with the earthling and started to come to terms with his new life style. It was only fitting to make Vegeta in the Majin state.

Now, as for the questions asked, I don't really see a major point in having Krillin and Piccolo tag along. What could they have done? It was more fitting to see the tag team Super Sayians in action. However, I do think the human characters need some sort of plot points. At least in the Cell Saga Krillin, Yamcha(although all he did was get stabbed in the chest) and Tenshinhan severed their roles in developing the plot. In the Buu arc, they were nothing but background noise. I think they could have done something more productive. Well, then again, their characters were already well developed. Might as well leave room for character growth between Trunks and Goten.

Speaking of Trunks and Goten, wasn't making them super strong and annoying the whole point of their existence. They were the "HOLY CRAP HOW DID THEY END UP SO STRONG?" characters whose childish mentality made it impossible for them to save the world. The idea behind Toriyama's writing was: "Well sure these guys are super strong, but without the right mentality their strength is useless." I thought their inclusion to the series was a nice counter balance to all the more older and wiser characters in the series. You witness the events as they were, and then again from a child's perspective. I mean I thought it was hilarious that the whole reason they wanted to kill Buu wasn't because he was destroying the world but rather because he ate their mommies.

[caejones]

An epic plot-twist would be Majin Tenshinhan popping out at Babidi's ship, and everyone being like "WTF?".
Except he'd have to fight Goku or Gohan, 'cause Vegeta would just pwn him. And Goku's fight with Yakon kinda serves a purpose, as does Gohan's fight with Dabura... Ur... sorta... maybe... Hmm.

Goten is awesome. End.

[Travis Touchdown]

Can you sorta remember where you read that? That's very interesting and makes you wonder about the next big question; Would the Majin power-up really bring Piccolo to the levels of both Goku and Vegeta? I don't count Gohan, 'cause he became de-powered for seven years after the Cell games.

I don't, sorry. It's just one of those things I've come across over the years, like Gohan blowing up the Earth if he went Super Saiyan in Mystic etc.

I don't see why being Majin'd wouldn't spike Piccolo up. He's on par with their Super Saiyan powers and he supposedly kept training over the course of those 7 years.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

An epic plot-twist would be Majin Tenshinhan popping out at Babidi's ship, and everyone being like "WTF?".

Where would the "M" go? Think about it.

[Kienzan88gt]

My first question, for anybody willing to answer, is do you think it was a missed opportunity in having Krillin and Piccolo turned to stone?

My second question is, are there any members here who just can't stand Goten and Trunks?

Cheers!

I personally think it was fine, if you look at the situation, Piccolo and Krillin were weak compared to Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. They wouldn't have played important roles after Vegeta became Majin. Also I'd like to assume, due to the Supreme Kai overwhelming Piccolo's mind at the tournament, his mind wasn't clear which resulted in him being hit by Dabura's saliva. Now as for Krillin, sadly since he is a human he doesn't hold up against any of the characters there, but it would have been nice to see him beat one of Babidi's weak warriors. There are a lot of what if scenarios with Piccolo and Krillin in Babidi's spaceship that would change the main story, just slightly though. For example, when Gohan is fighting Dabura instead of Vegeta screaming at him, it would be Piccolo and he might have even forced himself to take over Gohan's fight. I'm sure there's other what ifs, I'll leave the rest to your imaginations.

I would say Goten and Trunks can get a little annoying, but that's really only in the Japanese version. Not to upset any dub fans, but the English version of Goten and Trunks I couldn't stand. The voice actors weren't trying, they just didn't have the right tones. Now that's just my opinion, so don't get upset ok? If we were talking about the manga, I couldn't say since I haven't read the DBZ part.