Just how powerful was Future Gohan?

[Savage68]

Kami equates all of the Super Saiyans to one another, when he lists the people that couldn't stop the androids. With the way he worded it, it seems like he was implying them all to be in the same realm of power.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Okay, just checked. It was Tien who compared Goku to the other Saiyans. Now, here's Kami's line:

Kami: "Not even Trunks, the boy from the future who slew Freeza and his faster in an instant, could face them. Nor even Vegeta, potentially more powerful even than Trunks. I doubt that even Son Goku, fully healed, can prevail."

I bolded that part for emphasis.

[Senzu_Bean]

What about Piccolo? Does he actually says Trunks and Vegeta are stronger than Goku?

[Savage68]

He says that SSJ Vegeta may have even surpassed Goku, after he kills #19.

[Senzu_Bean]

He says that SSJ Vegeta may have even surpassed Goku, after he kills #19.

Not in that instance. Right after they all get their asses kicked by the Artificial Humans. Piccolo says something about Trunks and Vegeta in comparison to Goku.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

No, it was Tien. Piccolo only talked about Vegeta being pissed at getting whooped by a girl, and mentioned that Krillin didn't need to attack, because a Super Saiyan was taken down with ease.

[hleV]

I'm pretty sure Piccolo told that Vegeta might have even surpassed Goku.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Okay, just checked. It was Tenshinhan who compared Goku to the other Saiyans. Now, here's Kami's line:

Kami: "Not even Trunks, the boy from the future who slew Freeza and his faster in an instant, could face them. Nor even Vegeta, potentially more powerful even than Trunks. I doubt that even Son Goku, fully healed, can prevail."

I bolded that part for emphasis.

I'm like 99% sure that the "potentially" part was added in by VIZ. In Japanese God just flat-out says that Vegeta is more powerful than Trunks.

And yeah, Piccolo did say that Vegeta might have even surpassed Goku. I don't remember how he phrased it in Japanese exactly (Herms! I summon yoooooou!!), but I think I got the impression that Piccolo phrased it like that because it was a hard thing to admit...

[Dayspring]

When Trunks is leaving to fight the androids in his time prior to going back in time to kill Freeza, it's heavily implied that he is negligeably stronger than Gohan was. Trunks vs Freeza is stronger than when he got his ass kicked by the androids, but we don't know how much stronger. So for all we know, Gohan was weaker than 100% Freeza. But what we do know, is that he's weaker than Trunks when Trunks killed Freeza.

Personally, I think Gohan was in the same realm of power as Trunks when Trunks killed Freeza, in the same sense that a Saibaman with a BP of 1200 is on par with Radditz's BP of 1500.

[Herms]

I'm like 99% sure that the "potentially" part was added in by VIZ. In Japanese God just flat-out says that Vegeta is more powerful than Trunks.

Yep, that's right.

And yeah, Piccolo did say that Vegeta might have even surpassed Goku. I don't remember how he phrased it in Japanese exactly (Herms! I summon yoooooou!!), but I think I got the impression that Piccolo phrased it like that because it was a hard thing to admit...

"Ko...koeta kamoshiren...Gokuu wo..."
"He...he may have surpassed...Goku..."

Herms even said the translation leaves it up to the reader. He told me the original dialogue's quote on Krillin's statement regarding the Ginyu Force (Jheese and Butta) posessing the same amount of Chi as Reacoom is different in comparison to Gohan's quote used when comparing Trunks's Chi to Goku's.

Yeah, onaji-gurai no ki/"same amount of ki" vs simply onaji ki/"same ki".

Btw, didn't #17 skool Gohan with "less than half" of his full-power? I remember reading that from Trunks side-story in the Manga. Or perhaps I misread?

Yeah, he says he didn't even use half his power. Though I'd assume he'd still have been using close to half his power. I mean, if he were really only using a third or a quarter of his power, why not brag about that instead?

If they did the same thing with Trunks (but haven't gotten around to the "reveal and kill" part), then, like Gohan, he'd definitely think they're weaker than they actually are. There's actually dialogue supporting this when Trunks returns to the future; 18 is annoyed and asks if it's okay to kill him now, and 17 allows it, only lamenting that they'll lose their source of entertainment. So it seems they had been repeating the same cruel process with Trunks as they did with Gohan.

I’m not sure how much room there is for that sort of explanation. Gohan seemed pretty confident that he could beat both 17 and 18, so he’s apparently a lot stronger than their “less than half power” versions put together. But it seems that 17 on his own was more than enough to kill Gohan, which would suggest 17 was using 100% of his power or close to it. 3 years later, Bulma says that Trunks is stronger than Gohan was back then…just not so amazingly strong enough that it’ll make a difference (Viz changes this slightly so that Bulma doubts the Trunks is any stronger than Gohan was). So I think it’s very likely that Trunks would also have gotten the androids to fight at full power or close to it.

[Xyex]

If they did the same thing with Trunks (but haven't gotten around to the "reveal and kill" part), then, like Gohan, he'd definitely think they're weaker than they actually are. There's actually dialogue supporting this when Trunks returns to the future; 18 is annoyed and asks if it's okay to kill him now, and 17 allows it, only lamenting that they'll lose their source of entertainment. So it seems they had been repeating the same cruel process with Trunks as they did with Gohan.

Let's also not forget that after Trunks effortlessly blasts 18 into oblivion, 17 is shocked but not scared. He then charges in to attack Trunks himself. I highly doubt 17 has enough of a power advantage over 18 to not only effortlessly destroy her as Trunks did, but to also effortlessly destroy someone who could destroy her as Trunks did. This heavily implies that 18 was still in her weaker 'resting' level when she tried to kill Trunks, thus making 17 think that Trunks could be that much stronger than 18 but still weaker than him.

Considering all the other differences that occured between timelines, I don't really doubt that their power was different.

But what differences would those be? We only have what Trunks knows, which is shown to be incomplete knowledge, to go by. Trunks never saw 19 and 20 but considering that Piccolo was a match for them with only 3 years of training, I don't think the future versions would have lasted long either. Who's to say that 19 and 20 didn't appear first in the original history, that Vegeta didn't happen to just be in the area, and didn't end up obliterating 19 without even trying, and didn't put in as much effort into following Gero half way around the planet because he didn't know the threat? Then 17 and 18 show up, Vegeta gets his ass killed, and no one has any idea about 19 and Gero coming first and so Trunks assumes it was always 17 and 18 right from the start.

The only real differences that can be claimed for the Androids in the series timeline are 16 and Cell. Cell is from the future, so he doesn't count, and 16 is easily a by-product of the Z Fighters being right outside the lab. Gero was in a rush, didn't have time to store 16 away elsewhere, and so he caught the eye of 17 and 18. In the original timeline, Gero wasn't followed, had time to do things right, and put 16 into storage before activating 17 and 18. So the only things we can say are actually changed are things that happen AFTER the Androids interact with the Z Fighters.

Which is only logical. By the time Cell, let alone Trunks, arrived in the past Gero was no longer watching Goku and his friends. Nothing either of them did would have altered Gero's plans. Trunks could have had Goku dance down the main road of Capital City in a Tutu if he'd wanted, and Gero wouldn't have noticed. If Gero doesn't know then there's no outside influence to change his plans.

[Senzu_Bean]

No, it was Tenshinhan. Piccolo only talked about Vegeta being pissed at getting whooped by a girl, and mentioned that Krillin didn't need to attack, because a Super Saiyan was taken down with ease.

Do you have the Kanzenban? If so check volume 24, page 160. What does Piccolo says in the upper panel?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Sorry. I don't have the Kanzenban.

However, unless that part is grossly mistranslated, Piccolo doesn't compare the Super Saiyans there.

[VegettoEX]

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Thanks.

All he mentions (In the English version) there is that the guys should move Goku and think about their options once he gets better.

I'm wondering if this is intact in the Original text?

[Herms]

Yeah, that's all he says in Japanese too.

[Senzu_Bean]

Maybe that isn't the page... I will check it again.

[mysticboy]

Future Gohan was weaker than Goku on Namek.

I base this on Gohan saying he wore the orange gi so he could be as strong as his dad before he died.

Also, this Gohan has had no training since the five months before the Saiyans, he's never exploited his anger boosts, never used high gravity, and hasn't had anyone to spar with until Trunks grew up, and Trunks is so weak that one-armed base Gohan can block all his Super Saiyan attacks.

But Goku killed Mech Freeza before he died. With that said, he probably was referring to Goku when he came back from Yardrat (which is far stronger than Namekian saga Goku).

[Senzu_Bean]

But Goku killed Mech Freeza before he died. With that said, he probably was referring to Goku when he came back from Yardrat (which is far stronger than Namekian saga Goku).

It doesn't really matter. Goku in Namek could have killed Freeza just as easily. I personally don't see him that much strong. If he's 3,000,000 on Namek he's 3,100,000 there.

[mysticboy]

It doesn't really matter. Goku in Namek could have killed Freeza just as easily. I personally don't see him that much strong. If he's 3,000,000 on Namek he's 3,100,000 there.

He trained on Yardrat for year didn't he?