A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:11 pm

It's not a complete fabrication though. FUNi calls him Mr. Satan just like everybody else. They just extended the name. It's not so much a change as an embellishment. Changing it to Mr. Saturn or Mr. Satin is the more extreme change. Especially since the name "Satan" is written everywhere. I think "Mark" is the more extreme fabrication considering not only does it pull a random name out of thin air it also supposedly makes the name "Satan" a pseudonym, which is something it never was. At least "Hercule" keeps "Mr. Satan" as the man's real name.

And to qualify, I don't think "Mr. Satan" is really a problem for television given what other kids shows have done. I think FUNi just overreacted much like Saban and now Nickelodeon did with Roshi's beer. Hell, Gaston went on a musical drinking binge in Beauty and the Beast. And the actual Satan has appeared on numerous occasions in children's entertainment aimed at audiences even younger than DBZ's target.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by B » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:44 pm

Sure, in the uncut releases. But I highly doubt "Hercule Satan" will make it to Nicktoons.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:23 pm

That might be the networks doing that then despite it being hypocritical. Rocko and Heffer went to Hell in one episode of Rocko's Modern Life and Nickelodeon won't let "Mr. Satan" be uttered? Can't blame FUNi for that if it is indeed the case. Though I still think it's FUNi just being overly cautious. If they sent out nothing but "Mr. Satan" I doubt anybody would say boo to it.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:55 pm

People are forgetting that the censorship has to be up to 4Kids' standards, not Nickelodeon's.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Zep » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:08 pm

I'm with the people who say that if they just pronounce it the same way they do in the original Japanese (saying his name "Mr. Satan" in the way Satan is usually pronounced just sounds silly to me, for some reason) I don't see it as a problem. Maybe add a letter or a vowel, anything to make it close to the original while sidestepping any perceived outrage.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Cowboy Dev » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:15 pm

Zep wrote:I'm with the people who say that if they just pronounce it the same way they do in the original Japanese (saying his name "Mr. Satan" in the way Satan is usually pronounced just sounds silly to me, for some reason) I don't see it as a problem. Maybe add a letter or a vowel, anything to make it close to the original while sidestepping any perceived outrage.
My thoughts exactly.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:22 pm

I don't know. That just comes off as really obtuse to me. The whole Final Fantasy X fiasco comes to mind. Tidus = Teedus. Same with the RPGOne retranslation of FFVI. Cefca? With a hard C? WTF? That's not how the modern American English language works! You can't just make up pronunciations all willy nilly! :evil:

And I'm sure adding a vowel to match the spelling would send people, on this board in particular, into a tizzy. Sure as hell did when they added an i to Ten.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Mewzard » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:45 am

Couldn't call him Mr. Saturn anyways, Earthbound (Nintendo) would send Giygas on us all! :roll:

Joking aside, Hercule is the most likely choice. They might get ballsy and try for Mr. Satan (it's not like that would bump up their rating to a PG-13 or anything). Mark's more out there, but not impossible. Anything else (not including the Hercule Satan combo) is unlikely.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:49 am

They could go with Dosei-san! :lol:

But anyways, I think it should be Mr Satan for the home release, and Mr Savage or just Mark for the TV version (though, if they can get away with calling him Mr Satan on TV, then great!).
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast release? Please

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:01 am

B wrote: What's more accurate than the author coming up with it himself, and it being in a databook published by the same company that publishes the manga the author also wrote?
Because it's not accurate to the Anime. Not to the Manga or to the Databooks. If FUNimation were to call him "Mark", it would be inaccurate. This would go against their marketing for the series. If "Mark" was used in the Japanese version of Dragon Ball Kai, then it would be a different story.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:24 am

It's still better than Hercule, at least. I mean, if we can't have Mr Satan on TV, then why not go with his real name. That way, you technically aren't lying to the people watching.
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Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast release? Please

Post by B » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:30 am

Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:
B wrote: What's more accurate than the author coming up with it himself, and it being in a databook published by the same company that publishes the manga the author also wrote?
Because it's not accurate to the Anime. Not to the Manga or to the Databooks. If FUNimation were to call him "Mark", it would be inaccurate. This would go against their marketing for the series. If "Mark" was used in the Japanese version of Dragon Ball Kai, then it would be a different story.
Go back and read my posts in this thread, as I think I established why "Mark" would be the best option. Care to explain how "Hercule" or some variation of "Satan" that isn't actually "Satan" is accurate to the anime? Surely, you've got proof of this, as that's the argument you're using against "Mark."

In a perfect world, Nicktoons would man up, "Mr. Satan," and only "Mr. Satan" would be his name in every version of Z Kai, I'd have 2.3 million dollars, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case.
linkdude20002001 wrote:It's still better than Hercule, at least. I mean, if we can't have Mr Satan on TV, then why not go with his real name. That way, you technically aren't lying to the people watching.
Exactly this.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast release? Please

Post by Mewzard » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:13 am

B wrote:
Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:
B wrote: What's more accurate than the author coming up with it himself, and it being in a databook published by the same company that publishes the manga the author also wrote?
Because it's not accurate to the Anime. Not to the Manga or to the Databooks. If FUNimation were to call him "Mark", it would be inaccurate. This would go against their marketing for the series. If "Mark" was used in the Japanese version of Dragon Ball Kai, then it would be a different story.
Go back and read my posts in this thread, as I think I established why "Mark" would be the best option. Care to explain how "Hercule" or some variation of "Satan" that isn't actually "Satan" is accurate to the anime? Surely, you've got proof of this, as that's the argument you're using against "Mark."

In a perfect world, Nicktoons would man up, "Mr. Satan," and only "Mr. Satan" would be his name in every version of Z Kai, I'd have 2.3 million dollars, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case.
linkdude20002001 wrote:It's still better than Hercule, at least. I mean, if we can't have Mr Satan on TV, then why not go with his real name. That way, you technically aren't lying to the people watching.
Exactly this.
Really, that's not Nicktoons' fault. The dub is made to air on both Nicktoons AND the 4Kids owned block on CW. Unless we suddenly get worse edits then, we can't really blame Nicktoons for every one of them.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Big Momma » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:17 am

I think FUNimation should just use this chance to get in a Guest-Star VA and re-name him "Randy Savage".
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast release? Please

Post by TonyTheTiger » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:49 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:It's still better than Hercule, at least. I mean, if we can't have Mr Satan on TV, then why not go with his real name. That way, you technically aren't lying to the people watching.
Because I don't think it should count as his real name. It might be the name Toriyama is thinking about him having but until he publishes a story where he makes it relevant then I don't think it carries any more weight than Hercule given he never used it in the actual story.
B wrote:Go back and read my posts in this thread, as I think I established why "Mark" would be the best option. Care to explain how "Hercule" or some variation of "Satan" that isn't actually "Satan" is accurate to the anime? Surely, you've got proof of this, as that's the argument you're using against "Mark."
I already did. Hercule is "more accurate" because it doesn't change his name from "Mr. Satan" to something else, even when they don't call him Mr. Satan. It's understood that Hercule is his first name while Satan is his last. Therefore, it's "more accurate" in the sense that he never stops being "Mr. Satan." Calling him Mark all of a sudden makes Mr. Satan a pseudonym which goes back to Toriyama toying with ideas he never published in the work. Just because it's the author playing with ideas doesn't automatically make them relevant to what he authored. He has to actually do something with those ideas before they become "canon."

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Zep » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:14 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:I don't know. That just comes off as really obtuse to me. The whole Final Fantasy X fiasco comes to mind. Tidus = Teedus. Same with the RPGOne retranslation of FFVI. Cefca? With a hard C? WTF? That's not how the modern American English language works! You can't just make up pronunciations all willy nilly! :evil:

And I'm sure adding a vowel to match the spelling would send people, on this board in particular, into a tizzy. Sure as hell did when they added an i to Ten.
I was thinking just slot an extra T in there, like Mr. Sattan.

I think the problem with the Tien change is that it's not as simple as slotting an "i" in his name; they've pretty much lopped off the entire other half of his name, I assume because they thought it was too long and complex for some reason.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by batistabus » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:05 pm

I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly or not, but do you guys actually think they would even consider Mark? I mean, I can see why you would want it (even though I personally do not agree it would be the best choice), but do you actually think they would do it?

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Cowboy Dev » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:27 pm

batistabus wrote:I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly or not, but do you guys actually think they would even consider Mark? I mean, I can see why you would want it (even though I personally do not agree it would be the best choice), but do you actually think they would do it?
If they wanted a name that was at least accurate, then yes.
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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

Post by Zep » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:44 pm

I really think "Mark" is far too obscure a reference for Funimation to actually use. As far as I can see it, it's pretty much out of the question.

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Re: A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast release? Please

Post by B » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:09 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:I already did. Hercule is "more accurate" because it doesn't change his name from "Mr. Satan" to something else, even when they don't call him Mr. Satan. It's understood that Hercule is his first name while Satan is his last. Therefore, it's "more accurate" in the sense that he never stops being "Mr. Satan."
Again, this is assuming we are going to hear the word "Satan" uttered on Nicktoons, which I don't think is a safe bet.
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