My tribute to DBZ

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:32 pm

So why would I be so obsessed over this stupid, money-consuming show?

I was browsing some forums the other day (it was a much older thread from some random anime-lovers' site, I forget which) and this guy started off by announcing the release of the DragonBoxes (again, it was an old thread), and EVERYONE attacked the poor guy, saying stuff like "Why would I pay such a massive amount of money for such a crappily-animated show??" After that, it became an absolute, discriminated bloodbath against this guy (just to get him upset, I guess), and EVERYONE said that DBZ had the crummiest animation ever. I don't know if this defender lost his cool, but I sure did. How dare they speak that way about DBZ!! The ONLY reason why DBZ looks so badly-animated in comparison to other nowaday anime, is because THAT WAS THE BEST ANIMATION FORM AT THE TIME!
Far too many people get annoyed at the common DBZ nut (often a dubbie) who talks like "So, didja catch today's DBZ?" I can't blame them, but the whole POINT is to give this show a shot. YES, the battles are unforgivably long, but I look past that and what I see in this show is the emotion. And yes, I have heard a lot of arguments that DBZ is devoid of emotion, but that's a bunch of untrue garbage. What about all the deaths in the Saiyan saga? Each demise is treated INDIVIDUALLY, in its own special way. Yamcha sacrificed himself for Kuririn's sake, because he had a premonition that his life would be on the line. Tenshinhan and Chaozu... those deaths are about as tragic as it gets. And though some fans don't really enjoy Piccolo's death scene, I actually find it to be the most touching of the four, particularily when Piccolo tells Gohan "You're the only one who's spoken to me like I was another human..."

But anyway, I'll end on a lame note. There's my two cents.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:38 pm

I hate it when someone bashes visuals from a product that's old. As kenisu3000 said, that was the best animation for the time, which was the early 90's. Since then, shows like Naruto have come along which have excellent artwork, mainly because of the inclusion of computers, helping to make them look good.

And I agree that the series does have emotion. Lets not forget the anger that drove Gohan to transform into SSj2 when Cell destroyed Android 16. Also, I've seen people say that the series has little to no character development, a statement I disagree with. Look at Gohan and Vegeta. When Gohan appears he's a mommy's boy and a bit of a coward. Over the years he has become strong both physically and mentally, allowing him to fight the likes of Freeza, Cell and Buu. But even then he still wanted to spare people, even though they basically spat in his face when he said he wanted to spare them. And as for Vegeta, he started off as a jerk who only really cared for himself. But when Freeza killed him, we saw another side to him, one who seemed to actually care about the Saiyan people, leading to him telling Goku to avenge the Saiyans. He also grew closer to the other DBZ characters, namely Bulma, Trunks and seemed to have some form of respect for Gohan, judging by what he said when he thought Gohan had been killed by Buu. By the end of the series he had evolved into a badass with a heart.

Yeah, I agree that the fights are to long and could do with being shorter, but these fights are also at times some of the best points of the series. I enjoyed the fights between Goku and Vegeta (both the Saiyan Saga and Majin Vegeta fights), SSj Goku and Freeza, SSj 2 Gohan and Cell, SSj3 Gotenks and Buu, "Mystic" Gohan and "Super" Buu and the final fight against Buu.

But that's just my two pence.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:42 pm

I'll agree and add on that I still think the driving force behind DBZ is the characters, who all have distinctive personalities. Without good characterization, the battles or deaths wouldn't have any meaning. Looking at the surface of the show, it might just look like a fighting series, but you have to look deeper than that. a lot of people fail to realize this, and only look at it with a superficial, egocentric view.

Super Saiya-jin Sujin · Post by **Super Saiya-jin Sujin** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:35 pm

Caracal wrote:I hate it when someone bashes visuals from a product that's old. As kenisu3000 said, that was the best animation for the time, which was the early 90's. Since then, shows like Naruto have come along which have excellent artwork, mainly because of the inclusion of computers, helping to make them look good.

And I agree that the series does have emotion. Lets not forget the anger that drove Gohan to transform into SSj2 when Cell destroyed Android 16. Also, I've seen people say that the series has little to no character development, a statement I disagree with. Look at Gohan and Vegeta. When Gohan appears he's a mommy's boy and a bit of a coward. Over the years he has become strong both physically and mentally, allowing him to fight the likes of Freeza, Cell and Buu. But even then he still wanted to spare people, even though they basically spat in his face when he said he wanted to spare them. And as for Vegeta, he started off as a jerk who only really cared for himself. But when Freeza killed him, we saw another side to him, one who seemed to actually care about the Saiyan people, leading to him telling Goku to avenge the Saiyans. He also grew closer to the other DBZ characters, namely Bulma, Trunks and seemed to have some form of respect for Gohan, judging by what he said when he thought Gohan had been killed by Buu. By the end of the series he had evolved into a badass with a heart.

Yeah, I agree that the fights are to long and could do with being shorter, but these fights are also at times some of the best points of the series. I enjoyed the fights between Goku and Vegeta (both the Saiyan Saga and Majin Vegeta fights), SSj Goku and Freeza, SSj 2 Gohan and Cell, SSj3 Gotenks and Buu, "Mystic" Gohan and "Super" Buu and the final fight against Buu.

But that's just my two pence.

Very well said, sir.

I love DBZ because, unlike a lot of people, I actually KNOW what the show's about. What pissed me off one time is that I have a cousin who believes that DBZ is "from the devil". Once I was in NY and was about to watch the american dub of DBZ for the first time and she decided to just say the channel and say that I shouldn't be watching it and crap. After she had her say, I told her there "What about all those times they wanted to save the earth and succeded?". She then said "They just wanted to save their friends". Pure bullshit right there. I just remained quiet.

Seriously, just because they fight, there are bad guys resembling freakish demons and there's blood and death and all doesn't mean that it's "the work of the devil", as a lot of Catholics say. I'm catholic myself and completely disagree with that. People just need to look deeper into something before coming to conclusions.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:56 pm

Look at Gohan and Vegeta. When Gohan appears he's a mommy's boy and a bit of a coward. Over the years he has become strong both physically and mentally, allowing him to fight the likes of Freeza, Cell and Buu. But even then he still wanted to spare people, even though they basically spat in his face when he said he wanted to spare them. And as for Vegeta, he started off as a jerk who only really cared for himself. But when Freeza killed him, we saw another side to him, one who seemed to actually care about the Saiyan people, leading to him telling Goku to avenge the Saiyans. He also grew closer to the other DBZ characters, namely Bulma, Trunks and seemed to have some form of respect for Gohan, judging by what he said when he thought Gohan had been killed by Buu. By the end of the series he had evolved into a badass with a heart.

I couldn't agree more with that assessment. The mere mention of Gohan or Vegeta completely debunks the theory that the characters and therefore the series itself is devoid of emotion and meaning.

Not everyone can like DBZ, but possibly the reason some people come to such harsh conclusions quickly is because visually so much of the series is fighting, and perhaps that's all they get to see before they give up. I could point out more of the hidden jewels that make it really worth watching, but everyone else is doing a fine enough job of that without me . . .

. . . *cough* Vegeta's atonement *cough* . . .

(Li'l Lemmy, coming down with a cold?)

MajinVegeta25 · Post by **MajinVegeta25** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:12 pm

All the guys at my school think that DBZ is stupid because they have seen 5 minutes of the Dub ONLY. They are convinced that DBZ is a stupid kids show. I HATE THEM.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:24 pm

It really is funny to listen to how stupid some people are when they don't have all the facts or information. When it comes down to it, DBZ had the best animation at the time and far surpassed all techniques of the trade. Personally I wouldn't change any of the animation in DB or DBZ, except for a couple small spots where the animation looks nothing like what Toriyama would have drawn.

Caracal wrote:Since then, shows like Naruto have come along which have excellent artwork, mainly because of the inclusion of computers, helping to make them look good.

If I remember correctly, we begin to see the use of computers during the Buu arc of DBZ. Also, all of Movie 13 was done with computers. Correct me if I'm wrong on this...

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:29 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote: I couldn't agree more with that assessment. The mere mention of Gohan or Vegeta completely debunks the theory that the characters and therefore the series itself is devoid of emotion and meaning.

Not everyone can like DBZ, but possibly the reason some people come to such harsh conclusions quickly is because visually so much of the series is fighting, and perhaps that's all they get to see before they give up.

Tell me about it. When I was first introduced to the show, I had only seen a bunch of episodes where Goku was being a fierce bad@$$, and then in the middle of it all I see the one where he goes to get the two DB's from Tao Pai Pai (filler just before the Cell Games), and Goku's being a laidback fun-loving guy, completely oblivious (i.e. being an idiot) to all these peoples' attempts to kill him. I was sooo confused!

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:39 am

It doesn't matter what you say. Today's generation of anime fans are spoiled and only like whatever is the hottest and newest property of the time. I don't waste my breath on them and don't even consider them genuine anime fans. It's really sad nowadays when you look at how fans rave about this series and that series, when the majority of them are just mediocre.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:49 am

By far, Gohan and Vegeta had the most depth-defying character development through out DBZ, especially Gohan whom was originaly inteded to eventually defeat Buu, however Akira Toriyama was forcfully convinced by Toei and hardcore-Goku fans to make it so that Goku somehow, someway saves it all and defeats Buu. Fortunatly Vegeta had the same respect given to him, it was amazing to see how his personality would shift, especiallyduring the Buu arc. Unfortunatly though Gohan got the complete shaft in GT when Toei ran his character into the ground, and Vegeta had suffered the same for the first half of GT. But lets face it, Original Dragonball was Goku's time, Dragonball Z was Gohan's time, and Dragonball GT was Vegeta's time (hell, I believe GT was Vegeta's series as he IMO was the primary focus for the Saiyan/Tsurfu war, led a very brave defense against Super 17, and eventually reaching the ultimate Super level.

For people that say DBZ was devoid of emotions and character development, well they've obviously only seen a couple early Z sagas.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:44 am

Hujio wrote:If I remember correctly, we begin to see the use of computers during the Buu arc of DBZ. Also, all of Movie 13 was done with computers. Correct me if I'm wrong on this...

My knowledge in computers being used in anime is very limited. All I really know is that Naruto uses computers while One Piece is pretty much hand drawn.

Jerseymilk wrote:It doesn't matter what you say. Today's generation of anime fans are spoiled and only like whatever is the hottest and newest property of the time. I don't waste my breath on them and don't even consider them genuine anime fans. It's really sad nowadays when you look at how fans rave about this series and that series, when the majority of them are just mediocre.

I agree. I've visited some anime boards and seen that the Naruto forum has ten times as many people viewing and posting in it than the other forums. Naruto is a good series but I think that Kenshin, One Piece and even Shaman King are better.

Conan the SSJ wrote:By far, Gohan and Vegeta had the most depth-defying character development through out DBZ, especially Gohan whom was originaly inteded to eventually defeat Buu, however Akira Toriyama was forcfully convinced by Toei and hardcore-Goku fans to make it so that Goku somehow, someway saves it all and defeats Buu.

It's a shame they had to change that as I liked Gohan more than Goku. Now that I think about it, it's a shame Gohan's DU wasn't used to revive this plotline.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:47 am

Incredibly enough, there are quite a few elitist anime fans out there that have made Naruto the new series to look down on and hate just like with DB. As I've posted here before, they're favourite term being "Narutards". It seems you have the crazy elitists that hate practically everything and then the idiots who love anything that's the latest whether it's good or not.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:17 am

I started to watch DBZ at the episode 'The Newest Super Saiyan'. Yes, the UK version of the dub and heavily cut. I was instantly addicted. Just seeing this boy turn into this golden haired warrior, and Gohan in shock, as soon as I got more plot details (from a little thing called the internet) about the characters and about Goku. The curiosity of what Goku would think when he saw them go SSJ at the Tournament, it's a very interesting storyline, and that's the most important thing, the story.

Yes, the story lines. These people who say how it's crap because of the animation are imbeciles. I mean, look at most of the early Simpson episodes compared to the new season 15 ones, my point is most of the new episodes can't even compare to the old episode stroylines, despite the high level of animation and picture quality of the new ones.

I would rather sit back through a season 1 DVD rather than catch the new episodes on TV.

What you are hearing are the angry words of someone who went on google and typed 'FULL JAP DBZ EPS' hoping to get the whole series like that and they couldn't, so they start ranting. Either that or they are just biased idiots who have sever problems in life that the mere presence of a cartoon can enrage them.

What I say is if you are happy, then leave it that way, people are all different and have difference in opinions, and it's likely that someone out there would bad mouth DBZ. I mean come on, the reason why it even got made into an anime was because of the manga's popularity. People should be happy DBZ even exists in moving colour. It's better than still pictures in a comic book, and it's for the fans, if your not a fan why complain? It's because of the fans dedication and the series' progression that it is so big in so many countries still. If people are dissing the animation of an 80's caroon then they have nothing better to do.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:34 am

It's a shame they had to change that as I liked Gohan more than Goku. Now that I think about it, it's a shame Gohan's DU wasn't used to revive this plotline.

They did in a way, you can have Gohan's final opponent be Kid Buu.

For people that say DBZ was devoid of emotions and character development, well they've obviously only seen a couple early Z sagas.

I know. Seriously, a lot of shows don't have the kind of development seen in DB/Z. Goku, Piccolo, Gohan, and Vegeta all have some serious development. Possibly Vegeta the most of the bunch.

I agree. I've visited some anime boards and seen that the Naruto forum has ten times as many people viewing and posting in it than the other forums. Naruto is a good series but I think that Kenshin, One Piece and even Shaman King are better.

Eh, OP and Shaman King are good, but Naruto's better. Not sure about where Kenshin fits in though, they're at least equal.

Incredibly enough, there are quite a few elitist anime fans out there that have made Naruto the new series to look down on and hate just like with DB. As I've posted here before, they're favourite term being "Narutards". It seems you have the crazy elitists that hate practically everything and then the idiots who love anything that's the latest whether it's good or not.

It's that 'Popular stuff blows' mindset. How some people instantly stop liking a band just because they got popular. Now that Naruto's becoming popular (it's probably more popular now than Z was before it got dubbed) it automatically defaults to being a bad show. After all, it's only 'cool' to like the obscure and less known titles.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:02 am

I don't mind the series Naruto. I think it's good, though like I said I don't think it's as good as the three series I mentioned before. I don't know why, but the plot just doesn't seem to grip me the same way those three do (though I did enjoy Naruto book #6 and hope the next few are as good). But the Narutards do annoy the hell out of me and have turned me slightly anti-Naruto due to their attitude.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:56 am

Caracal wrote:I don't mind the series Naruto. I think it's good, though like I said I don't think it's as good as the three series I mentioned before. I don't know why, but the plot just doesn't seem to grip me the same way those three do (though I did enjoy Naruto book #6 and hope the next few are as good).

I have to agree with you on this one, One Piece is just awesome and I love Kenshin. Though I must say I haven't seen Shaman King, any good? I'd suggest sticking it out with Naruto, it's a good series and the plot will pick up for you. I personally like Naruto just as much as I like One Piece, they're both excellent series.

Bejiita wrote:What I say is if you are happy, then leave it that way, people are all different and have difference in opinions, and it's likely that someone out there would bad mouth DBZ.

I'm glad you mentioned this, because it's so true and it can be applied to all anime series, not just DBZ. Just because you like a certain series doesn't mean everyone should, and if someone likes something you don't, then so be it. If someone wants to watch a certain series then let them. People should encourage the watching of anime in general, not just a single series. I know I'm always watching more than one series at a time, as I'm sure most of you do as well.

Adnan · Post by **Adnan** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:00 am

Well pretty much what I wanted to say was said except for a couple of things:

What I like about DBZ (and other older anime) is the use of real backlighting visual effects (when things on screen appear to glow like the kamehameha for instance). New animes mostly use computers to do this effect and it looks kinda fake and neon-ish to me.
Some animes still use real backlighting though.

Also, for some reason, a lot of animes today use more subdued colors compared to older ones (things look darker and greyer). There's much less contrast and vividness in the colors compared to older animes (Shaman King is one example). I don't know why that is though and if someone has more insight into this I'd like to know.
Again, not all new animes have that problem but a few of them do.

One thing that DOES bother me about DBZ animation is triangle guy™

. I hate when you have 3-4 amazingly animated episodes and then suddenly the next one is done so poorly by that cheap outsourced animation studio.

All in all, DBZ's great. I'm pretty much an anime newbie so I don't know too many other animes except for Duel Monsters (Yu-Gi-Oh!), Gundam (several spinoffs), Inuyasha and a few others plus I've seen several films.

That's my 2 cents.

LaRésistance · Post by **LaRésistance** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:03 am

Around here, new anime fans don't bash Dragon Ball, they see it as an "icon", a show that paved the way for what they see today (just like they do with Hokuto no Ken or Saint Seiya and other older shows).

Of course there are people who don't like Dragon Ball but it's mostly because they don't like anime in general (DB, Saint Seiya, Hokuto no Ken, Kinnikuman and others were heavily censored here in the 80s and 90s because they were "too violent").

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:43 am

Hujio wrote:I have to agree with you on this one, One Piece is just awesome and I love Kenshin. Though I must say I haven't seen Shaman King, any good? I'd suggest sticking it out with Naruto, it's a good series and the plot will pick up for you. I personally like Naruto just as much as I like One Piece, they're both excellent series.

I intend to. Like I said, book #6 rekindled my interest in the series which had otherwise been pretty much killed off.

As for Shaman King, well I like it because it does something different. Like One Piece, the focus is one something that normally isn't common to manga (I don't think I've seen any other series about Pirates and Shamans), and the way the Shamans fight with ghosts (namely the Over Soul) is in my opinion an original touch and I like originality. In my eyes it leads to characters being able to do different and interesting techniques in fights. For example one character uses a snowboard in his fights while another using a pendulum.

Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan · Post by **Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:36 pm

MajinVegeta25 wrote:All the guys at my school think that DBZ is stupid because they have seen 5 minutes of the Dub ONLY. They are convinced that DBZ is a stupid kids show. I HATE THEM.

Yeah I agree with you. For example on IMDb there was some guy reviewing DBZ and said it sucks, he said he´d watched about 10 minutes and (get this:) HE DIDN´T GET THE PLOT!!! Ummm... OFCOURSE he doesn´t get the friggin plot!!

Kanzenshuu

My tribute to DBZ

My tribute to DBZ

Ah!

Re: Ah!