Was introducing power levels a mistake?

[Xyex]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

You're being inconsistent, complaining that they're arbitrary and then that they simplify combat. They only appear inconsistent because you're expecting them to simplify the combat down to just numbers, but they never actually do. Time and time again circumstances and skill prove to be able to alter the outcome of the fights, despite the numbers.

[Ludwig]

(Like I haven't bitch enough about power levels. xD)

I still say it takes the whole aspect that this series is ment to just be people beating the living heck out of each other. I agree with the first post in this forums. Beside premoting major geek fights and prick waving, what are the use of it to the actual series. Ok the over 9000 is funny. You can all call favortism on that one. But really? Do we care about who was at what and when and how? I mean erally. Most of the trainning in the animated series (to even get ot the set levels and make everyone argue about it) where fillers. Honestly, and personally fillers shouldn't be getting so much attention they are jsut there so they can make more money off of us. Doesn't just saying 'he beat him to death so he is one tough cookie' count anymore?

[Perfect]

(Like I haven't bitch enough about power levels. xD)

I still say it takes the whole aspect that this series is ment to just be people beating the living heck out of each other. I agree with the first post in this forums. Beside premoting major geek fights and prick waving, what are the use of it to the actual series. Ok the over 9000 is funny. You can all call favortism on that one. But really? Do we care about who was at what and when and how? I mean erally. Most of the trainning in the animated series (to even get ot the set levels and make everyone argue about it) where fillers. Honestly, and personally fillers shouldn't be getting so much attention they are jsut there so they can make more money off of us. Doesn't just saying 'he beat him to death so he is one tough cookie' count anymore?

...What are you talking about...?

[T Pac]

Power levels don't inherently bug me at all -- IIRC there are times when power levels and speed are explicitly contrasted. I also buy the theory that power levels aren't linear.

What annoys me is how some of the characters' power levels progressed over the series -- my single biggest beef is how Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha were able to surpass where Goku was at the beginning of DBZ through the same training that Goku already had earlier -- all in less than one year of training. Many other similar problems throughout the series.

In retrospect, I think power levels could be greatly modified to better fit the story for accuracy/linearity without actually changing any of the plot.

[caejones]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

The entire point of powerlevels was to fail.
They were supposed to simplify combat into a number... to show that simplifying combat to a number is a terrible idea.


Heck, look at Piccolo Vs. #20, which Piccolo wins for just that reason, while saying as much in dialog.

Of course, that line got butchered to hell and back in the FUNi dub, taking one of the explicit "battle powers are made of fail" lines and keeping it out of the hands of a chunk of fans.

[Xyex]

Power levels don't inherently bug me at all -- IIRC there are times when power levels and speed are explicitly contrasted. I also buy the theory that power levels aren't linear.

What annoys me is how some of the characters' power levels progressed over the series -- my single biggest beef is how Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha were able to surpass where Goku was at the beginning of DBZ through the same training that Goku already had earlier -- all in less than one year of training. Many other similar problems throughout the series.

In retrospect, I think power levels could be greatly modified to better fit the story for accuracy/linearity without actually changing any of the plot.

For the humans training with Kami you have to consider the situation as well. Goku trained up there on his own. And to defeat someone he'd already beaten. Yajirobe, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaotzu, and Ti­en trained up there together in order to fight against people far stronger than someone who'd just kicked Goku's ass. I'd imagine what the five of them did was far more intense than what Goku did.

[Kingdom Heartless]

For the humans training with Kami you have to consider the situation as well. Goku trained up there on his own. And to defeat someone he'd already beaten. Yajirobe, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaotzu, and Ti­en trained up there together in order to fight against people far stronger than someone who'd just kicked Goku's ass. I'd imagine what the five of them did was far more intense than what Goku did.

Didn't he do sparring with Popo, or was that only in the filler?

[Xyex]

For the humans training with Kami you have to consider the situation as well. Goku trained up there on his own. And to defeat someone he'd already beaten. Yajirobe, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaotzu, and Ti­en trained up there together in order to fight against people far stronger than someone who'd just kicked Goku's ass. I'd imagine what the five of them did was far more intense than what Goku did.

Didn't he do sparring with Popo, or was that only in the filler?

I was thinking it was filler, but I've just been told no, it's in the manga. But even so, that's just one person, whom Goku likely quickly surpassed. And going by the Daizenshuu, Ti­en is now almost as strong as Goku was against King Piccolo. Meanwhile the humans have multiple partners who would be improving right along with them, and so the sparring could continue for much longer and at greater intensity.

A one-on-one spar is great. All five of them in everyman for himself spar, or a four-on-one spar, would be even more helpful.

[ThunderPX]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

The entire point of powerlevels was to fail.
They were supposed to simplify combat into a number... to show that simplifying combat to a number is a terrible idea.


Heck, look at Piccolo Vs. #20, which Piccolo wins for just that reason, while saying as much in dialog.

Of course, that line got butchered to hell and back in the FUNi dub, taking one of the explicit "battle powers are made of fail" lines and keeping it out of the hands of a chunk of fans.

If said fans didn't get the message by then, they probably were never going to. I mean, off the top of my head, you have these:

Raditz: "Ha! According to my scouter, you two have no chance of--OH SHIT THEY'RE POWERING UP WHAT THE FUCK"

Vegeta: "I've already figured out that these Earthlings can hide their power levels, so I'm getting rid of my scouter. (Until I need to rage about someone's power level rising more than expected, anyway.)"

Most of Freeza's henchmen versus Vegeta: "Ha! According to my scouter, you have no chance of--OH SHIT HE'S POWERING UP WHAT THE FUCK"

The good guys and Vegeta on Namek: "They can't spot us as long as we suppress our ki, because their scouters won't pick it up!"

And so on. I mean, apart from the explicit references to the fact that scouters can pretty easily be circumvented, there's a ton of situations in the series that show exactly that happening. I doubt one extra note, after power levels had been abandoned no less, would've made much of a difference.

[Rocketman]

And so on. I mean, apart from the explicit references to the fact that scouters can pretty easily be circumvented, there's a ton of situations in the series that show exactly that happening. I doubt one extra note, after power levels had been abandoned no less, would've made much of a difference.

Breaking a thermometer doesn't mean Fahrenheit ceases to exist.