.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

It's as silly as a human character becoming an Oozaru, or a Namekian having sex.

Very well said.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Yeah, but to some, obviously it makes even less sense when it happens because of a Saiyan transformation (it came out of left-field).

Personally, this Saiyan transformation is pretty wacky (disappearing and reappearing eyebrows, massive hair) and came out of left field for me aswell.

Further confusing is the fact that the characters are wearing all of their old clothing after they revert back to normal (even if they already ripped their clothing to shreads by transforming into a Great Ape).

As I've said before, I can't explain that. But I haven't set out to. All I'm doing here is pointing out double standards.

Come on dude, there's no blind hatered of GT going on here. This is a valid criticism.

Agreed. It most definately is valid. However, so is my criticism about the Potala fusion.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

There aren't any double standards in this topic. Super Saiyan 3 is extreme, but it's just an extension of what we've seen before (growing hair). Great Ape form adds a ton of extra hair to a Saiyan's body, like Super Saiyan 3, (which all disappears after they revert to normal), but it's believable in the context of the series.

Super Saiyan 4 is just completely different. To some, it doesn't feel like a logical transformation, when you look at the previous series. You can suspend your disbelief all you want, but that doesn't mean that everybody else can when watching GT. Nobody's hating for the sake of hating...

What was your criticism of the Potara fusion?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

There aren't any double standards in this topic.

Yes, there are. People are saying that materialising clothes from nothing is nonsensical, while completely ignoring other nonsensical things in series, like flying and fusion.

Super Saiyan 3 is extreme, but it's just an extension of what we've seen before (growing hair). Great Ape form adds a ton of extra hair to a Saiyan's body, like Super Saiyan 3, (which all disappears after they revert to normal), but it's believable in the context of the series.

Super Saiyan 4 is just completely different. To some, it doesn't feel like a logical transformation, when you look at the previous series.

That's fine, but that's all your opinion. Some people (even people who hate GT) really like Super Saiyan 4. And other people, dislike Super Saiyan 3.

What was your criticism of the Potara fusion?

That it's physically impossible. Like materializing clothes from nothing, flying thousands of feet in the air, getting by shot multiple times by a gun without protection and not dying, et cetera. So basically, like most things in the series.

[Godo]

That it's physically impossible. Like materializing clothes from nothing, flying thousands of feet in the air, getting by shot multiple times by a gun without protection and not dying, et cetera. So basically, like most things in the series.

Potara isn't impossible at all, that is, if you combine two people's DNA. The Potara fusion combines the best of two people's DNA. It may be possible in a scientific sense.
Materializing clothes from nothing is impossible, you are correct there.
But not every shot from a gun leads to death. But I suppose that you mean that it's impossible to deflect a shot to your skin.
But that too isn't impossible, since we have several animals that have thick skin enough to do that. You can simply say that Saiya-jins have very thick and collagenous skin.

You can try to explain most things with science if you want to, but I don't think that Toriyama intended to do that, really.
So in my mind the SSJ transformation makes as much sense as the SSJ4 transformation.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

You can try to explain most things with science if you want to, but I don't think that Toriyama intended to do that, really.

Exactly. Sometimes you just have to say: "this is completely magical, and just cannot be explanied".



P.S. I was talking about Bulma shooting Kame Sen'nin and Krillin in my previous post.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Yes, there are. People are saying that materialising clothes from nothing is nonsensical

Yes, when a Saiyan character does it. Saiyans have never displayed magical abilities before.

That's fine, but that's all your opinion. Some people (even people who hate GT) really like Super Saiyan 4.

Obviously... Was there even a point in saying that? We're talking about the people who dislike Super Saiyan 4 and their so-called double standards, here.

That it's physically impossible.

It's a magical ability, in a fantasy story. Super Saiyan transformations aren't magical at all. There's a difference...

[Herms]

This sort of reminds me of how in Yu Yu Hakusho, characters like Kurama or Sensui can create clothes or armor by solidifying their ki. Of course, that's really the sort of thing you need to explicitly explain at some point, as YYH does.

[Castor Troy]

Should I still bother watching GT after reading this thread?

[rereboy]

Should I still bother watching GT after reading this thread?

I think every Dragon Ball fan should watch GT at least once, even if they think they won`t like it. It is, after all, the only official continuation of the story even if we end up not liking/agreeing with it (and I`m a manga fan and I`m saying this).

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Yes, when a Saiyan character does it. Saiyans have never displayed magical abilities before.

Bukūjutsu is pretty magical. Don't tell me that can be explained scientifically.

Obviously... Was there even a point in saying that? We're talking about the people who dislike Super Saiyan 4 and their so-called double standards, here.

Yes. Yes, we are. Also, the double standards aren't "so-called". People saying that clothes growing out of nowhere makes no sense, while covering their eyes to other nonsensical things in the series like: shooting energy blasts that can blow up planets, dinosaurs still living on the Earth, the destruction of the Moon not affecting the Earth's ecosystem, not dying from getting shot by an Uzi in the head, fusion, a giant castle in the sky that's supported only by a small tower, creating four exactly copies of yourself, a tiny capsule that can turn into a big time travel machine, et cetera, is definately an example of it.



Face it, some things in the whole series just don't make any fucking sense. To single GT out alone on this, is extremely unfair.

It's a magical ability, in a fantasy story. Super Saiyan transformations aren't magical at all. There's a difference...

Then, what is it? I don't know anyone who can turn their hair blonde in an instant and blow up shit just by screaming.

[Rocketman]

Bukūjutsu is pretty magical. Don't tell me that can be explained scientifically.

Except it can. All you have to do is focus energy to work against the pull of gravity.

Like so:


Anyway, the point is you're being deliberately obtuse. It's not about magical clothes (again, nobody says a peep about Piccolo's doing it several times), it's that someone gets a magic ability they've never had, been hinted to have, or have ever been related to with no explanation.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Except it can. All you have to do is focus energy to work against the pull of gravity.

Really? A man with no help at all, flying straight into the stratosphere. I don't know a lot about science, but that seems kinda impossible.

Anyway, the point is you're being deliberately obtuse. It's not about magical clothes (again, nobody says a peep about Piccolo's doing it several times), it's that someone gets a magic ability they've never had, been hinted to have, or have ever been related to with no explanation.

Yeah, that's happened quite a few times in the series.

[Rocketman]

Really? A man with no help at all, flying straight into the stratosphere. I don't know a lot about science, but that seems kinda impossible.

Any object capable of concentrating enough force against the pull of gravity will fly. Dragonball's flight violates no laws of physics.

Yeah, that's happened quite a few times in the series.

And it's pretty stupid whenever it does come up. It just never comes up as often in the series before GT.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Really? A man with no help at all, flying straight into the stratosphere. I don't know a lot about science, but that seems kinda impossible.

Any object capable of concentrating enough force against the pull of gravity will fly. Dragonball's flight violates no laws of physics.

As I said before, I don't know much about science, so I'll take your word for it.

[Deity]

When Goku or Gohan turned Oozaru in the series their clothes would get ripped and when they got back to their normal form, they would be naked. Nobody's single'ing out GT in any way, people are just saying that it is ridiculous that this happens when no explanation can be found.

We all know this is a fantasy story, and a lot happens that just couldn't happen in reality, but we can always find an explanation in-story as to why that can happen. No matter how much we try, we can't find a logical and canon explanation as to why Vegeta has a belt or why his clothes are back after he ripped them. For you not to see the difference in what we are discussing to arguing how can all Dragon Ball characters can fly, then yes, you are being deliberately obtuse/dumb.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Yes, the issue isn't that things in Dragon Ball don't make sense in our universe; that much is obvious. The issue is that Saiyans having a "clothes beam" makes no sense in-universe. Is that so hard to understand?

If Goku had an attack in GT where his penis turned into a giant dragon, yeah, it'd be "possible," since it's just a cartoon, but people who watched DB and DBZ/read the manga would probably be saying WTF.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Yes, the issue isn't that things in Dragon Ball don't make sense in our universe; that much is obvious. The issue is that Saiyans having a "clothes beam" makes no sense in-universe. Is that so hard to understand?

I've always understood that. What I've been arguing all this time is that similar unexplainable things happen in both DB and DBZ.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

There's no reason to question the other examples you've brought up, because they make sense in-universe. The clothes thing is just silly. Obviously, it was done so that the Super Saiyan 4 characters wouldn't be walking around naked, but there could've been another way around that...

That's the entire reason sludge-Broli from movie 11 exists at all! "Clone's naked? Let's cover him in sludge!" Instead of just having him wear clothes in the tank to begin with.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

There's no reason to question the other examples you've brought up, because they make sense in-universe.

Even the part about the Moon being destroyed?