Cell Time Travel Question

[Cipher]

So, as I'm going through my Dragon Box 4, something struck me as odd.

Trunks says the time machine Cell took arrived one year before Freeza and King Cold. Okay, great.

But when Cell explains his origins to Piccolo later, he says he merely used the time the machine was already set for. Piccolo then speculates that the Future-Future Trunks must have set it for that date in order to tell them he'd defeated the Artificial Humans.

What? Did I misunderstand something? Why would he be traveling another year back from when he originally arrived?

[dbgtFO]

It's a plothole that's why.
If I was to explain it from an in universe perspective though, I would say that Trunks hadn't turned the timer all the way to the designated destination making Cell travel even further back, than what Trunks originally planned, it doesn't fit well with Kamicollo's thoughts on the subject though

[Bussani]

That one's never properly explained. Either the time machine cocked up, or that Trunks was up to something. We never find out since the only time we see that version of Trunks is through Cell's eyes when he kills him, and Cell doesn't know or care what he was up to.

[Dayspring]

So, as I'm going through my Dragon Box 4, something struck me as odd.

Trunks says the time machine Cell took arrived one year before Freeza and King Cold. Okay, great.

But when Cell explains his origins to Piccolo later, he says he merely used the time the machine was already set for. Piccolo then speculates that the Future-Future Trunks must have set it for that date in order to tell them he'd defeated the Artificial Humans.

What? Did I misunderstand something? Why would he be traveling another year back from when he originally arrived?

This glitch is never explained. My personal theory is that, since Cell didn't do any time machine piloting, and since Trunks notes the machine is pretty much out of power, that Cell just kept going into the past until the machine couldn't go any further back.

[Terra-jin]

I ignore the manga on this point and assume Cell set that time himself, since he needed the time to re-grow. It makes sense that Cell would take this into account and hence set the time to 4 years before the time that the cyborgs were released.

[Perfect]

Essentially every jump through time creates another universe. I actually wrote a bit of a guide on my explanation for this awhile back...

We first see the usage of time travel in the manga when a new mysterious youth appears and defeats Freeza. As well as his father and all their subordinates with them. This fellow's name is Trunks, as most of us already know. He came to warn Goku about a deadly new virus and the arrival of two artificial humans, which are stronger than Freeza by far. He eventually gives Goku the antidote that isn't available in the present time line, but is in the future.

However Trunks' attempts to save the past from the horrible fate his time faced were in vain. One year prior to his arrival, an artificial human (or biological android) killed Trunks in it's time and stole his time machine and traveled back in time. This creature had to regress into it's larval state to fit inside the time machine.
We know "it" as Cell.

As Trunks travels through the fabric of time and space, he creates new time lines. This follows the basic principle that they're an infinite amount of universes when regarding the Multiverse theory. The mainstream time line in Dragon Ball isn't the one that's on the camera the majority of the time. Before any actual time travel is done (excluding the Dragon Ball filler where Goku goes back in time while he's training at Kami's Lookout) the actual time line that the series is set in, is none other than the one where Goku dies from a viral heart disease. The very same where the Artificial Humans nearly killed everyone.

So let's label what we've established the mainstream time line as, "A". When Trunks travels back in time and defeats Mecha Freeza, he ultimately created a new time line. However, prior to this something else altered the time line. That creature was known as Cell. We can assume he was from "A0", which means there's a very long cycle where Cell kills Trunks and steals his time machine leading up to him staying to fight in the Cell Games. With that said, originally there wasn't a Cell that altered a time line, just Trunks.

We'll label this time line as "B", this is also the time line where everyone trains to try and defeat the new threat. Once Trunks travels back to his time line he waits for his time machine to charge up. He then travels back in time, but to the events three years later from when he first arrived. This spawns another time line, identical to the one from three years prior (though Trunks being absent from this time line now).

We'll label the time line Trunks has traveled to, "B2". This is also the time line where Cell absorbs Seventeen and Eighteen and hosts the Cell Games. It should also be noted that when Trunks travels back to his own time line, he creates a new one for every jump he makes. So when Trunks traveled back from defeating Mecha Freeza he created, "A1". Due to all the changes made in the time stream, there were some altercations. Instead of Seventeen and Eighteen appearing at first, Nineteen and Twenty did. Seventeen and Eighteen are also stronger than they were in time line "A", hence why Trunks is so surprised.

Eventually Trunks finds the blueprints to Seventeen with Krillin in Gero's laboratory. Trunks immediately leaves after Bulma has created a suitable remote. Trunks never entered the Room of Spirit and Time.
He then traveled back to the future creating a new time line, "A2". He defeats Seventeen and Eighteen by shutting them down with a functional deactivation remote. Trunks was ultimately too weak to be able to defeat Seventeen and Eighteen on his own, so he was easily disposed of by Cell. Trunks was either going to go to the past to deliver the blueprints or to tell them of their whereabouts or give the location to Gero's laboratory to defeat the Artificial Humans before they awaken (Cell included, ultimately ending the events he experienced in the past all together).

Since Cell had hijacked Trunks' time machine, that changed the entire course of events, once more. This
time everything up until the point of Bulma completing the remote is the same. Nearly, the times lines actually have different labels. Cell had traveled from "A2" to "C", where Trunks from "D", thinks he changed things. Trunks travels into the future once more to "D2". He then travels to the events three years after his first arrival. We'll call this, "C2". This is where the actual events in the story take place from. Trunks participates in the Cell Games, gets killed and revived.

After the Cell Games, he travels into the future to rid his world of Seventeen, Eighteen and Cell once and for all. Once they're defeated he goes back into the past one more time to tell everyone the good news, we'll call this "C3". This is the last time line in the series we see before going back to "C3", we'll call this "D3".

As previously mentioned, it's unknown exactly how many time lines were spawned due to Cell's interference.
We could have the mainstream end up being "C8001" due to all the time it actually took to build up to the current events, where only Trunks had messed with the time line. Ultimately the illustration below should simplify things, further down on the page. Again the whole Dragon Ball perspective on the Multiverse theory holds up without any problems and follows the basic principles.

http://dbat.co.cc/Images/Timeline.PNG
http://dbat.co.cc/Images/Timeline2.PNG

It's likely that the Trunks that traveled back didn't want to cause any inflicting paradoxes, such as "Future Trunks meeting Future Trunks", which may have resulted in changing the time stream so that another Trunks never really visited the time line he had come to. Really it seems to me that it all just depends if there's a paradox that interferes with said time line, since you never know when one might appear (Trunks' time line; the Trunks we see in the Cell Games). The infinite amount of paradoxes also depends on whether or not you'd like to believe Cell was present in the time line where Trunks took the blueprints from.

I also like Dayspring's theory on this, nothing overcomplicated.

[Cipher]

I ignore the manga on this point and assume Cell set that time himself, since he needed the time to re-grow. It makes sense that Cell would take this into account and hence set the time to 4 years before the time that the cyborgs were released.

This is what I always remembered happening, because it actually make sense, until I re-watched the episodes. Then I was suitably baffled.

Perfect, I understand Dragon Ball's time travel mechanics. The question was what purpose a later version of Future Trunks, who had already been to the past (as evidenced by the fact that he has a time machine and that, until Cell creates another time-split, he's basically the Future Trunks we know) would have for going even further back in time. I can't think of a good in-universe explanation except for Dayspring's.

[Perfect]

I thought I answered that, oh well. I see the Trunks coming into 763 (going to bring everyone Goku's medicine, who hadn't arrived, and the Artificial Human's blueprints ahead of time) as the original, that kept the repeating events going. This Trunks may have known that his doppelganger would have shown up in 764 (being a predicted paradox), thus actually causing a reaction that he doesn't come. That or not only would the Z-fighters benefit from the blueprints, but the Trunks that actually arrives in 764 would as well. Cell hijacks his time machine of course. Piccolo assumes it was the Trunks in 764 that was coming back to tell them he had defeated the Artificial Humans, when it's clearly not the same Trunks. However, Piccolo's explanation is purely plausible being that he has no idea of the repeated events, nor anyone else most likely.
So we have,

Trunks who had shutdown Nos. 17 & 18 in the Future with a remote. He was planning on traveling to 763, for one out of the two above reasons. Cell being stronger, killed him via strangling and went to 763. In 764, another Trunks arrives, from a paradox of an earlier time line (Probably because of repeating events the original Trunks set in motion, or Cell's hijacking, which may or may not have happened previously in other time lines) and warns of the Artificial Humans and gives Goku his medicine. In 767 Trunks returns (Yeah, tons of splits in the time line, already explained a post ago), only to find various differences. Piccolo, assumes that the Trunks that traveled to 764, had traveled back in time to warn them even further with better aid. However, as stated above, Piccolo is justifiably erroneous (irony).

[Cipher]

Ah, I see what you're saying. So the Trunks who originally owned Cell's time machine was going to go back a year in advance in order to reveal some weakness in the Artificial Humans.

The problem is that, in that he had the time machine and knew that he would also be arriving a year later, he must have at some point also gone into the past and defeated Freeza, etc. just like the Trunks we know. Obviously that would have created a time line much like in the main series, but without Cell. So I guess we can assume something catastrophic enough happened with the Artificial Humans in the present time line to cause him to want to go even further back with more plans?

I really hope that made sense. I still like Dayspring's take on the whole thing more than Toriyama's needlessly confusing one.

[Bussani]

If you go by the explanation given in the guides, the Trunks that owned Cell's time machine had already gone back once, killed Freeza, found blueprints for the shutdown remote, and returned to the future to defeat his Androids. That's why there were no Androids in that timeline and why Cell had to steal the time machine in the first place. I guess Trunks could have been going back further to give the remote to everyone, but...that would just create yet another timeline. Oh well; at least it would be a happy one.

[TripleRach]

The Namekkians left Earth about a year before Trunks first arrived. Maybe he wanted to go back and figure out where they went, so he could get a new set of Dragon Balls to help clean up his future.

Alternatively, maybe there was a lack of young women in the future, so he wanted to go back and kidnap Maron. She'd be a big help in repopulating the world.

[Perfect]

If you go by the explanation given in the guides, the Trunks that owned Cell's time machine had already gone back once, killed Freeza, found blueprints for the shutdown remote, and returned to the future to defeat his Androids. That's why there were no Androids in that timeline and why Cell had to steal the time machine in the first place. I guess Trunks could have been going back further to give the remote to everyone, but...that would just create yet another timeline. Oh well; at least it would be a happy one.

Essentially there's already a ton of time lines, which I believe Trunks is aware of. I guess after all the misfortunes and everything that's happened in so many different worlds, making a difference in one or two can make up for that some how. I know it would for Goku at least.


And Cipher, there's already numerous time lines with and without Cell, as well as with and without Trunks. So a main time line without Cell wouldn't exactly be uncommon, given all the jumps made in time made through both Trunks and Cell.
Eh, catastrophic? Maybe, as I recall in Daizenshuu 7, it doesn't really give any insight on what happened in the time line Trunks recovered the blueprints in. It seems to imply he left rather soon. The same amount of time passes for him to time travel again, as it does at the end of season 6 (Seasons sets). It seems to me that the Trunks that had survived the Cell Games was going into past to tell everyone the good news (It's stated I believe; I don't believe he goes as far as to 763, looks to be a few months after the Cell Games), meaning that there was a difference between his counterpart that had his time machine stolen by Cell.

So perhaps the Trunks that had his machine stolen was going to hopefully give them the blueprints in advance, tell them about his "future self" coming, and telling them to give him the blueprints, to end the chain of events that would slowly repeat itself?

Also Triple's idea about the Namekian's seems plausible. Oh the possibilities we fans come up with.

[Piccolo Daimao]

When Trunks was preparing to go back in time to tell the Z-Warriors that he had defeated the Artificial Humans (via the remote), Cell attacked him and killed him, which caused his hand to slip on the dial as he died, thus pushing his destination back one year. Cell just pushed the button, and then went back 4 years.

Here's the plothole. Piccolo asks Cell, "Why did you set it 3 years ago?", not 4 years ago, since Cell had already been in the main timeline for a year before Trunks killed Freeza. I guess Piccolo and Cell just had brain farts.

[Perfect]

When Trunks was preparing to go back in time to tell the Z-Warriors that he had defeated the Artificial Humans (via the remote), Cell attacked him and killed him, which caused his hand to slip on the dial as he died, thus pushing his destination back one year. Cell just pushed the button, and then went back 4 years.

Here's the plothole. Piccolo asks Cell, "Why did you set it 3 years ago?", not 4 years ago, since Cell had already been in the main timeline for a year before Trunks killed Freeza. I guess Piccolo and Cell just had brain farts.

Well VIZ says, "Three years after he came", so one could mold it to be looked at from the right perspective so it works.
In the anime, it's something like, "Why has it taken you three years to change from an egg to the way you are now?", I wonder what the month was for when Cell actually arrived in the time line we see.

*Checked my time line*

Yeah Cell comes sometime after October, so really 763 is just about over at the time and in 767 everything takes place in May.

[Dayspring]

When Trunks was preparing to go back in time to tell the Z-Warriors that he had defeated the Artificial Humans (via the remote), Cell attacked him and killed him, which caused his hand to slip on the dial as he died, thus pushing his destination back one year. Cell just pushed the button, and then went back 4 years.

Here's the plothole. Piccolo asks Cell, "Why did you set it 3 years ago?", not 4 years ago, since Cell had already been in the main timeline for a year before Trunks killed Freeza. I guess Piccolo and Cell just had brain farts.

I'm pretty sure this is all one of Toriyama's brain farts. The only reason Cell even needed to go earlier than Trunks was so that the two could coincide in one timeline.

[Herms]

*Checked my time line*

Yeah Cell comes sometime after October, so really 763 is just about over at the time and in 767 everything takes place in May.

Sounds like your timeline has a slight error. The Daizenshuu 7 timeline places Cell's arrival in the past as simply "sometime" in 763. October is actually the month of the Garlic Jr. filler arc, the timeline entry immediately prior to the one for Cell's arrival (placing the filler arc one month after all the post-Freeza DB wishing wraps up; I'm guessing this is based on something said in the anime, but am too lazy to check). Your timeline mistakenly lumps the Garlic Jr and Cell entries together. So there's nothing to say specifically when in 763 Cell arrives.

[Perfect]

*Checked my time line*

Yeah Cell comes sometime after October, so really 763 is just about over at the time and in 767 everything takes place in May.

Sounds like your timeline has a slight error. The Daizenshuu 7 timeline places Cell's arrival in the past as simply "sometime" in 763. October is actually the month of the Garlic Jr. filler arc, the timeline entry immediately prior to the one for Cell's arrival (placing the filler arc one month after all the post-Freeza DB wishing wraps up; I'm guessing this is based on something said in the anime, but am too lazy to check). Your timeline mistakenly lumps the Garlic Jr and Cell entries together. So there's nothing to say specifically when in 763 Cell arrives.

I guess so, but it does make sense for it to take place later. Being that there would only be a few months left in the year, so they're insignificant when being referenced to "three years prior", at least that's my take on it. In the time line I typed up, I just put, "sometime later in the year", what I said was really just based on speculation. When would you assume that Cell arrived?

[FriezaWithAnI]

I wouldn't listen to Herms, judging by how she runs kanzentai, she has no idea what shes talking about.

Cell came in august, I read so on Dragon Ball wiki, the guys who actually know what they're doing.

[Herms]

I guess so, but it does make sense for it to take place later. Being that there would only be a few months left in the year, so they're insignificant when being referenced to "three years prior", at least that's my take on it. In the time line I typed up, I just put, "sometime later in the year", what I said was really just based on speculation. When would you assume that Cell arrived?

Oh, OK then. I guess I just wouldn't assume that because the daizenshuu timeline places Cell's arrival after the October entry for the Garlic Jr. stuff, that it's necessarily meant to occur after October, since the entry itself is marked "some month and day". The entry had to go somewhere in that year, after all, and they could have specifically indicated "after October" if they wanted. Placing Cell's arrival sometime close to 764 to try to resolve the discrepancy of his arrival being referred to as 4 or sometimes 3 years ago makes sense though.

I wouldn't listen to Herms

That's a good idea. In fact, I'm officially ordering everyone not listen to what I tell them.

judging by how she runs kanzentai, she has no idea what shes talking about.

Kanzentai is run by a guy named Hujio. I just work for him. I admit that he's a bit screwy (he chooses to live in Omaha, for Pete's sake!), but he can write code and scan images like you wouldn't believe.

Cell came in august, I read so on Dragon Ball wiki, the guys who actually know what they're doing.

Trunks came in August of 764 according to Daizenshuu 7, so it sounds like they just assumed that Trunks set the time machine exactly a year before his initial trip to the past. Not necessarily bad speculation, but there's nothing solid to confirm such a specific date.

[Kaboom]

Based on his only other post, FriezaWithAnI is, or rather was, just a troll. Carry on!