G-O-K-O-U

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

This is related to the word filter, but since the filter thread itself is locked...

Back when I first got into Dragonball, it was through the dub airing on Toonami. When I eventually discovered what I was missing through sites like DBZ Uncensored, I went through the typical fanboy* rebellious stage of rejecting dub terminology and using 'the actual Japanese versions' instead...though while that may have been true for things like Tien vs. Tenshinhan, I discovered, as I began to actually learn and understand Japanese, that some 'official' (ones on merchandise, in video games, etc) weren't so correct in terms of pronunciation - case in point, Gokou.

For those who might not know what the deal is, this spelling is incorrect because 'ou' in Japanese words is pronounced as an extended 'oh' sound, rather than an 'uu' sound. Gokou's name is supposed to be pronounced Go-Ku-U, with the 'ku' emphasized, though the common Western pronunciation emphasizing the 'Go' is generally accepted...but Gokou would actually be pronounced 'Go-Koh', and obviously, that's 100% incorrect. I'd assume that's the reason why Mike has added this spelling, which was at one time back in my heyday commonplace, to the filter, whereas other alternate spellings like Gokuu and Gokuh are acceptable - because they're actually not just correct, but more correct pronuncuation-wise than 'Goku'!!

Still, I know for a lot of older fans like myself, Gokou is a big piece of nostalgia. The thing is, it's incorrect...so am I being stubborn or hypocritical for agreeing with filtering names like Tien, Korin, and Hercule, but wanting to get Gokou unfiltered? Perhaps. Though, I suppose a better comparison would be Frieza - the spelling is different, technically the pronunciation would be wrong (not that this stops people from using the dub pronunciation of 'Saiyan'), and so it's filtered...and a lot of dub fans are against this particular filter for the same reason I'm against the Gokou filter. It's not as though the name is so different that people won't know exactly who you're talking about, but...it's incorrect.

My justification behind the name Gokou? Mainly, the fact that for years, this was more or less the 'official' spelling the Japanese used when using roman letters on things like merchandise, images, and I believe even a few video games. But by that logic, someone could argue that Frieza is used on tons and tons of Western merchandise and video games, right? Is it somehow more acceptable for Gokou to be allowed because it was used in the country of origin, and can't be considered one of FUNimation's evil, evil dub changes? I'm not sure. That's why I'm making this thread, really. This isn't a petition to fight for the removal of the Gokou filter. I'm really curious - how many others agree with my perspective? Disagree? Have no real opinion, or just generally think my logic is flawed and hypocritical? Is it wrong for me to approve of filtering Frieza, but argue against filtering Gokou? Does anyone have an opinion of this?

I know to a lot of fans, the whole name difference discrepancy in general seems silly and pointless. But I can understand the perspective of dub fans who are attached to things like Tien and *swallows hard* Hercule because I feel the very same for Gokou - it's a nostalgia, part of my early fandom days, and something that's hard to let go of. Even if I'm fundamentally wrong, I'm stubborn, and I guess I'm just curious if there are enough people who agree with me, or think my justification is acceptable enough for the filter to possibly be lifted.

Thoughts?

*I use the term 'fanboy' in this manner a lot, despite being female, because the connotations behind the word 'fangirl' are very, very different.

[VegettoEX]

Without getting involved in a large discussion (since it never actually turns into one, and is usually only contributed to by maybe two separate folks), my current plan is that the word filter will be invalid and negated (other than standard spelling corrections for atrocities such as "tankoban", which is what the majority of filters currently are) once our in-house wiki is launched, since that will act as the entity to help further Our Agenda™.

So maybe that answers your calling without really answering your calling...?

[Herms]

For those who might not know what the deal is, this spelling is incorrect because 'ou' in Japanese words is pronounced as an extended 'oh' sound, rather than an 'uu' sound. Goku's name is supposed to be pronounced Go-Ku-U, with the 'ku' emphasized, though the common Western pronunciation emphasizing the 'Go' is generally accepted...but Gokou would actually be pronounced 'Go-Koh', and obviously, that's 100% incorrect.

The 'ou' sound in "GOKOU" is supposed to be pronounced like the 'ou' sound in English words like 'you' or 'caribou', which is in fact how the Japanese 'uu' sound in Goku's name is pronounced. You're being a little too rigid in your thinking by assuming that they would only intend an alphabet spelling to be pronounced as if it were a direct romanization of 悟空.

My justification behind the name Gokou? Mainly, the fact that for years, this was more or less the 'official' spelling the Japanese used when using roman letters on things like merchandise, images, and I believe even a few video games.

It's still used on merchandise to this day.

[Rocketman]

Attempting to get one pronunciation out of English to arranging letters a certain way will not work. See: tough, bough, through.

Because of that, while I don't have any strong feelings about Gok-ou or Fri-eza, they should be treated the same. If one's a (admitted widespread) typo, then they both are; likewise if one's an acceptable alternate spelling, both are.

[Herms]

The idea that "GOKOU" or "FRIEZA" are simply typos is pretty much untenable. There's nothing objectively wrong with them as a way of writing the characters' names in alphabet letters, after all. One could argue that they're needlessly confusing spellings that therefore shouldn't be used, but it's absurd to say that they're nothing more than mistakes that nobody's ever bothered to correct.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

For those who might not know what the deal is, this spelling is incorrect because 'ou' in Japanese words is pronounced as an extended 'oh' sound, rather than an 'uu' sound. Goku's name is supposed to be pronounced Go-Ku-U, with the 'ku' emphasized, though the common Western pronunciation emphasizing the 'Go' is generally accepted...but Gokou would actually be pronounced 'Go-Koh', and obviously, that's 100% incorrect.

The 'ou' sound in "GOKOU" is supposed to be pronounced like the 'ou' sound in English words like 'you' or 'caribou', which is in fact how the Japanese 'uu' sound in Goku's name is pronounced. You're being a little too rigid in your thinking by assuming that they would only intend an alphabet spelling to be pronounced as if it were a direct romanization of 悟空.

Fair point, though I was thinking more along the lines of Rocketman, where the 'ou' sound can have several variations in English alone, let alone other languages using the Roman alphabet. I guess it's hard to call it outright 'wrong', but out of all the 'alternate' spellings prevalent on the web back in those days (Gokuu, Gokuh, Goku with the little triangle thing over the u that I don't know how to make without opening the character map I don't feel like opening right now), it's the...least correct, I guess? And yet, it's the most 'official', because that's the one that the Japanese chose more often than not when romanizing the character's name.

I agree that you can't really call either of them a 'typo' or even a 'misspelling', but they're also both not-quite-correct, or as correct as they could be. As I said, if I didn't hear the character's name in-series all the time and my first exposure was to the spelling Frieza, I would personally read that as free-ez-ah, and not free-za. His name is a pun on 'freezer', but without the extended - mark that denotes a long a (usually an 'er') sound, so 'Freeza' is the most logical and appropriate spelling (and it becomes even more baffling when FUNi chooses to use 'Cooler' instead of 'Coola'/'Koola', but that's another topic entirely). With Gokou...it's harder to say what's 'more correct'. 'Gokuu' would be the most accurate romanization, but the truncation of double-u sounds in Japanese words just looks more pleasant in roman letters (another example, Yuugi of Yu-Gi-Oh! becomes Yugi). 'Gokuh' is no less correct than my personal spelling of 'Kaioh', technically, but for some reason when I see the 'h' following a 'u' instead of an 'o', I'm more apt to read it with an 'uh' sound instead of an 'ooh' sound. But Gokou lies somewhere in-between, where it's really hard to classify if it's somehow more 'right' or 'wrong' than other spellings, especially in a fandom like this one, where alternate spellings have always been commonplace (Vejita/Vegita, Bardock/Burdock/Barduck, Chaozu/Chaotzu/Chiaotzu, Puar/Pu'ar/Pu'er, the list goes on...).

[linkdude20002001]

It's don't think it's the "Japanese's English spelling"... Toriyama uses Gokuh after all. Gokou is just Bandai's spelling, it seems. Toei, on the other hand, likes the spelling Gokuu.

Also, if I recall correctly, Gokou is the official spelling in the Philippines.

The whole "If I hadn't heard the name pronounced in the series, I would have pronounced it like this..." argument is stupid; people have that problem with names all the time (both real names, and fictional names). People will look at names like ReaCoom/Reacoom and either say REE-koom, ree-KOOM, REE-uh-koom, ree-uh-KOOM, or RAY-koom. People will hear names like Gokuh and spell them Goku, Gokou (my mom did this...), Gokoo, or whatever.
It's ridiculous to think Gokou is an incorrect, or even a weird, spelling. After all, not all names in the series are direct romanizations... Pu-ehr/Puar is a good example. And so is Kuririn/Kulilin/Klilyn/Krillin.