Is GT REALLY Non-Canon?

[NeoKING]

This perked my interest in the DBO thread. People believe that DBO is "obviously" the manga's sequel because Toriyama was more involved in it than GT. But, I remember Toriyama himself saying he thought of GT as a side-story to Dragon Ball(he also said he liked GT, contrary to so, so popular belief). So to any of you does this make GT canon to the original manga?

.... And lets please keep the "GT's not canon cuz it sux ballz" to a minimum, guys.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[KaiserNeko]

Part of me just wants to respond with, "Yes. [/thread]"

But I full comprehend that Canon means different things for different people. Ultimately, I personally feel that it's non-canon. Mostly because it was obviously a cash-grab by Toei, but partly because of it's lack of involvement from Toriyama. Sure, he did a few designs, but it just doesn't look, sound, or feel like his work in the end.

Not to mention Toriyama not acknowledging it when writing for the MMO.

[JulieYBM]

Does it really matter if it is canon (or what it is canon to)? None of that will change how you feel, will it?

[Castor Troy]

Toriyama can easily make it canon by saying it is, but DBO seems so much more Toriyama-like so I'll take that as canon over GT.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't take GT or DBO as canon. Just because Toriyama said he thought of GT as a side-story doesn't mean it's suddenly a canon continuation of his manga. In both GT and DBO, he never wrote it, all he did was approve it and provide character designs and stuff. Most people take GT as non-canon because of its plotholes and inconsistencies. Some people take DBO as canon because it has interesting new ideas and no plotholes. Just because Toriyama's involved in something doesn't automatically make it canon. I guess it's just about matter of preference. For example, I take the Bardock special as canon because it doesn't contradict anything in the series and Toriyama himself included two panels with Bardock mirroring his final stand against Freeza, as in the special (he even has the same broken armour from Dodoria's mouth blast and the scene where Freeza kills him with the Death Ball).

[Hellspawn28]

GT is canon to the Dragon Ball/Z anime, but not to the manga. That's how I view it since I recall AT saying that he said the anime and movies are their own coummunity?

[NeoKING]

Does it really matter if it is canon (or what it is canon to)? None of that will change how you feel, will it?

Why do I get the feeling you think I made this thread with bad intentions? Relax, I'm just creating discussion for a topic that I find interesting. You don't have to post if you think it's pointless.

[Herms]

But, I remember Toriyama himself saying he thought of GT as a side-story to Dragon Ball(he also said he liked GT, contrary to so, so popular belief). So to any of you does this make GT canon?

He says that in the intro to the GT Dragon Box ("DragonBall GT is a grand side-story of the original DragonBall, and it'll make me happy for us to watch and enjoy it together."). Personally, I actually see him calling it a "side-story" as implying that he doesn't see it as a 'real' continuation of the manga. He could have called it a sequel or continuation of DB or whatnot, but instead he specifically called it a side-story, giving it a secondary status.

Not to mention Toriyama not acknowledging it when writing for the MMO.

First, as far as we know Toriyama doesn't really write the story for DBO; he merely has to give his approval to every story idea (as opposed to GT, where he says he "left the DragonBall anime completely up to the anime staff, story and all"). It's also worth pointing out that in one of the interviews with the DBO staff, they said they only received the license for the DB manga and not the anime, meaning that they can't include anime-only characters even if they want to.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Cootie]

I think that none of the things that happened in GT actually happened. The whole thing never existed and the story really ended when Goku flew away with Oob. GT is glorified fan fiction.

[Gaffer Tape]

I only consider the events of the manga to be canon, so by that factor alone, GT isn't.

[Kaboom]

"Side-story" is a brilliant way to describe GT. It's something extra, connected to the main series but really not in the same "main vein" as the manga. So aside from concepts of "personal canon" being thrown around, no, I wouldn't label GT as "canon" to anything but itself. You could say it's "canon to the anime" but even then there's so many weird mixed-up things in comparison.

[B]

My main beef is when people want some type of answer as to why this or that happened in GT or anime filler, and when told there isn't one without pulling something out of thin air, they get upset. I like GT and would much rather watch it than tons of other series, but I don't see it as canon. This discussion gets insane when you start opening up cans of worms like "personal canon."

[Hellspawn28]

I see view GT as canon to the Anime universe even though GT suffers from bad writing with the bad retcons and plot holes that happens. I don't view the movies expect for Movie 1, 9, and 13 canon to the anime universe neither.

[Zionist]

I see view GT as canon to the Anime universe

This makes me rage every time I hear someone say something like this. How is it SUPPOSEDLY canon to an Anime, when the Manga is considered Canon to the Franchise?! It's not that I dislike GT, I like some of the concepts in it, it's just I don't consider it in any way canon.

[Freeza Heika]

I don't take GT or DBO as canon. Just because Toriyama said he thought of GT as a side-story doesn't mean it's suddenly a canon continuation of his manga. In both GT and DBO, he never wrote it, all he did was approve it and provide character designs and stuff. Most people take GT as non-canon because of its plotholes and inconsistencies. Some people take DBO as canon because it has interesting new ideas and no plotholes.

"Side-Story," doesn't make it "Non-Canon." It's rather in a another "Sense." I really love how "Dragon Ball GT" is portrayed. "GT," doesn't have any "Plot Holes," it just makes you think harder. Some fans get lazy and just decide to throw the whole idea away. They either dismiss it as "Fake," or "Non-Canon," because they don't want to get involved in it. "GT," was "Saiyajins last fight." The Tuffles fight back again for revenge, just like in the "OVA" special.

You can't just say things and make them true. You think that when GT first hit the US that fans were excited for it, regardless of where its ideas came from? Or do you think that perhaps they were shitting themselves in excitement? And maybe, just MAYBE after they saw what it was and where it was going, they decided it wasn't good.

I don't dislike GT. I like GT very much, but I am not going to pretend it is deep just to get across an opinion. It isn't Lovecraft, it isn't the Dead Sea Scrolls. Hell, it isn't even Eva. It is a show about fighting. The main character is a child, who is often naked. It is a stupid, fun show.

I beg of you, next time you are going to say something like that, warn us all so that we can prepare ourselves for the ensuing laughter by purchasing inhalers and O2 tanks.

[Godo]

Some fans get lazy and just decide to throw the whole idea away. They either dismiss it as "Fake," or "Non-Canon," because they don't want to get involved in it. "GT," was "Saiyajins last fight."

Some fans get lazy and don't bother with the plotholes of DBGT, because of that they fancy the idea of the "Saiya-jins last fight", even though Toriyama said in the final manga chapter that there was countless adventures left for the heroes. In other words, he didn't want to end it as a definite ending.

And I want to ask you, if I get permission to make a sequel of DBGT, where I make Goku weaker, Pan the strongest in the series, Vegeta into a woman, and Buu into a villain again (completely disregarding Majuub), compare the weakest enemy they encounter first in the series to Omega Shenron's strongest form, just to have him taken out easily, make SSJ4 into weak ass garbage, and take away the SSJ transformations of all Saiya-jins except for Goku and Vegeta, would you accept it?
I mean, if Toriyama claims that it's "canon". Just that. His only involvement was designing a handful of characters.
Would you?

[Herms]

completely disregarding Majuub

Hey, I'm all for completely disregarding the term "Majuub". Or, if we have to keep it, can I call Captain Ginyu in Goku's body "Capku"?

[Savage68]

I see view GT as canon to the Anime universe

This makes me rage every time I hear someone say something like this. How is it SUPPOSEDLY canon to an Anime, when the Manga is considered Canon to the Franchise?!

Why can't these two notions co-exist...? The manga is canon to the franchise, and the anime series is non-canon to the franchise.