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[Fox666]

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[dbgtFO]

You're probably going to be moved, but while you're still online here is the thread, where we post our power levels. Unofficial power levels go here

[Fox666]

I am not pretending to post unofficial power levels there... I am going to give my personal opinions about the manga, databooks, possible video games, etc.

It's a bit different, isn't it?

[dbgtFO]

I am not pretending to post unofficial power levels there... I am going to give my personal opinions about the manga, databooks, possible video games, etc.

It's a bit different, isn't it?

Could be, well it's not up to me to decide anyways, so let's just see, where this thread is headed.
@Your ideas, Imperfect Cell at 1 billion is a bit of a stretch TBH, the people who made that game didn't even get their facts right, so I wouldn't trust a random game to get a feel of how strong characters are.

[Fox666]

In my opinion this list is (almost) perfect. The only mistake there is Kami-sama with 220. For me it was clearly confused with Piccolo Daimao old form. Simply said.

The first thing that pops at my eyes are:

- Goku (age 18): 910
- Raditz: 1,500

This gives a complete new dimension to the battle against Raditz.



Of course this was not a battle beetween 1.200 and 400 otherwise a single punch of Raditz would make Goku and Piccolo in pieces.

As stated by Nappa and Vegeta on earth after witnessing the battle power of the earthlings (i.e. Piccolo with 1,220) Raditz was an idiot to truth on the scouter.

416 and 408 is nowhere Goku and Piccolo battle power. They certainly should have somewhere around 900 if Raditz had 1,500.

That would also mean that Goku's Kamehameha ("924, and it's growing") don't increase the battle power for a large difference like Makankosappo, at the best it unleashes the full potential


By the way, in my oppinion it makes complete sense for Goku and Piccolo being that strong compared to the other earth fighters, based on the 23rd tournament




And to not forget commenting that Nappa apparently stated Raditz battle power as 1,200...

Nappa: "I'm-impossible...!! The Saibaiman's battle power is 1,200...!! Going just by power, he rivals Raditz...!!"

Well, for Nappa level 1,200 and 1,500 is all the same thing... it would be reading too much to think that Nappa actually precisely stated Raditz battle power.


I will comment the other battle power in this list later

[dbgtFO]

Of course this was not a battle beetween 1.200 and 400 otherwise a single punch of Raditz would make Goku and Piccolo in pieces.
As stated by Nappa and Vegeta on earth after witnessing the battle power of the earthlings (i.e. Piccolo with 1,220) Raditz was an idiot to trust the scouter.
416 and 408 is nowhere Goku and Piccolo battle power. They certainly should have somewhere around 900 if Raditz had 1,500.
That would also mean that Goku's Kamehameha ("924, and it's growing") don't increase the battle power for a large difference like Makankosappo, at the best it unleashes the full potential

^Finally someone with some sense
No seriously I thought, I was the only one who thought this.

[The Time Traveller]

In my opinion this list is (almost) perfect. The only mistake there is Kami-sama with 220. For me it was clearly confused with Piccolo Daimao old form. Simply said.

Wouldn't the name say Piccolo Daimao?

[Senzu_Bean]

In my opinion this list is (almost) perfect. The only mistake there is Kami-sama with 220. For me it was clearly confused with Piccolo Daimao old form. Simply said.

That is actually a clever remark. Whoever made this chart probably mistakenly assume Kami was equal to Old Daimao. Honestly it doesn't make much sense for Kami be in that row, instead on Karin, Popo, etc. row. And we all know 220 isn't anywhere near what Kami is.

And I'm still scratching my head to how Mr. Popo is above 1,000. I don't particulary like the idea of him increasing in power due training Tenshinhan and co.

[Herms]

As you can see, Freeza is given as 12 million, not 120 million. It was decreased by 10 times. I suppose the game makers did not wanted to go too far in these numbers?

They're just going by an old fan mistranslation of the Daizenshuu 7 battle power list. On old influential DB sites like "The Ultimate DBZ Info Site" or Planet Namek.com, they gave Daizenshuu 7's battle power for Freeza's full power as 12 million, rather than 120 million like it really said. Presumably they mistranslated the kanji for 100 million.

[Fox666]

Mr. Popo: 1,030

This is very precise in my opinion. Mr. Popo (and by consequence Kami-sama) are over 1.000 in battle power.

Goku with a battle power of 260 was an ANT near these two fellas



They are certainly much stronger than Goku, after he defeated King Piccolo.

I don't know why these two did not helped against the Saiyans. But it's clear why they trained Goku to stop Piccolo Jr.: Piccolo and Kami-sama are the same person, they can't kill him, and they can't stay away from their divine responsabilites 100% of time to hold Piccolo, expect when Kami-sama learned the Mafuba and in fact tried to stop Piccolo.

Karin: 190

After Goku training with him to fight Tao Pai Pai, Karin notes that Goku was close to him in strength. This seems pretty accurate.

Kaio: 3,500

As he states that the saiyans are stronger than himself, this just seems accurate.

Tao Pai Pai:

Once he defeated Chaos pretty easy, this is a satisfactory value. This would put him over Kuririn at Raditz saga.

Kame-sennin: 180
The text says that "he fires the original Kamehameha"

Simply said, this is Kame muscle form



Also, this gives us a clue of the battle power of the "50% form" that Kame used against Tenshinhan



By a simple calculation, the average beetween 139 and 180 is around 160. Which makes sense for their battle

[Senzu_Bean]

This is very precise in my opinion. Mr. Popo (and by consequence Kami-sama) are over 1.000 in battle power.

They cannot be over 1,000 otherwise they would be stronger than Ma Junior, which Kami clearly isn't.

[Fox666]

Why is it clear that Piccolo (Ma Junior) is stronger than Kami? I don't think it's the case.

Kami clearly states to Tenshinhan that "a god cannot commit suicide" when he asked Tenshinhan to kill him (and subsequently killing Piccolo).

If you think about that, Kami also cannot kill Piccolo, because that would be suicide too!


However, there IS one indication of Kami power compared to Piccolo, there is one page of Kami fighting Piccolo without using a human body




I don't think there is any problem with Mr. Popo battle power. He is 1.030 and Popo stating Kami stronger than him is okay (however I am not going to speculate a value for Kami).

That is actually a clever remark. Whoever made this chart probably mistakenly assume Kami was equal to Old Daimao. Honestly it doesn't make much sense for Kami be in that row, instead on Karin, Popo, etc. row.

Putting in words, that is the case.

We can assume that Kami was mistaken by King Piccolo simply based on page layout.


If you look at the layout, it's quite lame. Chi-chi is in the row of Saiyan saga warriors (3rd). Piccolo Junior is given a value of 3.500, meaning that is his power during the Saiyan saga, however he is still in the evil guys row (2nd). And of course there is also Kami mistaken by King Piccolo in the evil guys row.

It wouldn't be that hard to fix it, Tsuru-sennin and Tao Pai Pai would be moved to the evil guys row (2nd), Piccolo Junior would be at the Saiyan saga warriors row (3rd), and Kami along with Chi-chi would be moved to the Misc row (4th). But that is too much of a off-topic for now

[Senzu_Bean]

Why is it clear that Piccolo (Ma Junior) is stronger than Kami? I don't think it's the case.

If I'm not mistaken Kami says Goku had surpassed him... I might be wrong though. Someone can confirm?

I was about to mention the page you posted. That is something you want to take in consideration.

EDIT: Kami says everybody, from Chaotzu to Tenshinhan, had surpassed him after his training. Yajirobe and Chaotzu are below 1,000.


I like your way of thinking. I really do. You're possible the first and only guy I ever met on this community that actually work on stated battle powers instead of dismiss them as utter garbage.

[Rocketman]

ChiChi at 130? Yes please.

[Senzu_Bean]

ChiChi at 130? Yes please.

There is other supposed BP chart that puts her at 137. Me likes too.

[dbgtFO]

Why is it clear that Piccolo (Ma Junior) is stronger than Kami? I don't think it's the case.

If I'm not mistaken Kami says Goku had surpassed him... I might be wrong though. Someone can confirm?

Kami is weaker than Piccolo Jr. he even thinks it too himself!
I know it becuase I'm sitting with it now.
Look up volume 16, on the second page of chapter 181, Kami says(in his mind), that he didn't count on Piccolo being this good, and that he(Piccolo) is stronger than him, but not because of the weak body he borrowed!

I like your way of thinking. I really do. You're possible the first and only guy I ever met on this community that actually work on stated battle powers instead of dismiss them as utter garbage.

You should know why I dismiss some of them, but let's not talk about that, okay?

ChiChi at 130? Yes please.

Yeah, as expected , I actually don't have anything against it

[Piccolo Daimao]

ChiChi at 130? Yes please.

Chi-Chi at 130? Bitch, please.

[Fox666]

Why is it clear that Piccolo (Ma Junior) is stronger than Kami? I don't think it's the case.

If I'm not mistaken Kami says Goku had surpassed him... I might be wrong though. Someone can confirm?

I was about to mention the page you posted. That is something you want to take in consideration.

EDIT: Kami says everybody, from Chaotzu to Tenshinhan, had surpassed him after his training. Yajirobe and Chaotzu are below 1,000.

Kami said through the course of the series that a lot of people surprassed him. In other words, he is just a senile old man.

I think that it shouldn't be taken that literally as battle power numerical value. It may be techniques, or latent potential. Whatever.


Basically, I am forced to choose beetween two statements that apparently contradict each other: that Kami is stronger than Popo, who has 1,030 - or that he is weaker than Goku at age 18 (910) and the good guys during the Saiyan saga including Chaos (670).

Certainly I choose the first one! Why?



Kami certainly is NOT below 670, if Goku had 260. The picture says everything.

[dbgtFO]

Certainly I choose the first one! Why?

Kami certainly is NOT below 670, if Goku had 260. The picture says everything.

Is that a rule?
Because according to that chart Tao Pai Pai at 210 got taken down in one punch, by Tenshinhan(who can't have been above 250) resulting in a difference of 1,19, if Tenshinhan's power didn't change in those 5 years.
Look here
Before you say Tenshinhan went full power here and Kami didn't, don't forget, that Kami and Popo's training is about unleashing all your force at once, while you are seemingly at rest examples being: Popo vs. Goku and Goku in the preliminaries. For an even better way to see how that translates into Battle Powers(Fight Powers if you must) see Goku vs. Recoom, Jeice and Burter.

[Fox666]

Punching is very different from using a finger, not even that, Kami just flick Goku away.