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[dbgtFO]

Raditz would certainly have learned that there's something special about Piccolo's attack when it blasted right through his armor.

Yeah, in my version he goes on to compliment the technique and not the Battle Power of it, doesn't he also do that in Viz and the original?

[Savage68]

Wait, didn't Raditz succumb to the Makankosappo when he was, like... gravely injured? He was so piss-poor weak that his backhand only managed to knock a Gohan with 1 Battle Point unconscious, and Son "Mr. Broken Ribs" Goku was even holding him at bay.

[astrallite]

DBGT, if you never read Dragonball, or any of the guides and had no knowledge of Dragonball at all, and you read the Buu Arc. Answer these questions....


1) How big is the SSJ boost?
2) Who is stronger, Base Vegeta/Goku/Gohan or Piccolo?

1) 3-4x

2) If you read the Android arc, I would say Piccolo is the strongest at base, since I don't see the current crop of Super Saiyans more than 50x stronger than the Android Arc. If you only read the Buu arc, you would think Piccolo was just some random dude in a turban and was Mr. Popo's side kick. I don't think he ever engaged in combat.

[p123]

Oh stop with the Kienzans! We all know the situation with that. Don't get funny mister...


Gohan's headbutt gravely injured Raditz. 1300-1500 does not suggest that kind of damage. Even if it could cause some damage it's doubtful it would be a fight changing amount of damage. If so , then a 1400 punch would be even more effective. Please explain what happens when equal battle powers , battle it out.

If a headbutt is 1307 and nearly taken you out, what the freak is a 1500 punch going to do with you? Are people on even power levels now one-shotting each other with a jab?


Honestly these posts are getting more and more ridiculous? Am I being trolled? Or do you guys really truly feel this way? Where the hell is the logic in these backwards POVs?






Oh and Jesus man. Piccolo / Goku amplified their ki. AMPLIFIED. Which means the attack of their power was HIGHER than their actual true power. Which is the whole point of the attack. IF NOT, then why waste your ki on a ki blast and not just throw a jab of equal power.

Really? JESUSSUSUSU!!!

[Fox666]

Gohan's headbutt gravely injured Raditz. 1300-1500 does not suggest that kind of damage. Even if it could cause some damage it's doubtful it would be a fight changing amount of damage. If so , then a 1400 punch would be even more effective. Please explain what happens when equal battle powers , battle it out.

As far I remember we saw several stances where someone of lower battle power heavily injured one of higher... 1,300 to 1,500 is not such a big difference

Is there any rule that I don't know of when you can or cannot injure someone else? Even the manga is not consistent on that point

Oh and Jesus man. Piccolo / Goku amplified their ki. AMPLIFIED. Which means the attack of their power was HIGHER than their actual true power. Which is the whole point of the attack. IF NOT, then why waste your ki on a ki blast and not just throw a jab of equal power.

Really? JESUSSUSUSU!!!

Not all blasts are of equal power (≠ of battle power)... I don't really understand your point

I suppose at this point I gotta do my song and dance again about how the Saibaimen are said to "rival" Raditz (hitteki-suru), not actually equal him. Well, "equal" wouldn't be an especially bad translation of hitteki-suru if people didn't seem hell-bent on interpreting it as absolute mathematical equality. It just means that they're on the same general level. Videl, for instance, is said by Sharpner to "rival" Mister Satan (hitteki-suru again), even though Sharpner and everyone else but Gohan thought Satan was still stronger than her. Also, Toriyama wrote in his memo to the anime staff on the Saibaimen that they're "slightly inferior to Raditz".

Good point. Saying that statement contradicts the Daizenshuu is going too far on the reading...

For someone at Nappa's level, Raditz and Saibaiman are just a bunch of weaklings with a battle power of 1,000

[p123]

Dude, if a 1307 headbutt can severly damage a 1500 opponent. Than a 1500 opponent should be able to one shot another 1500 opponent with a jab.

[astrallite]

Well such knockouts have occurred, maybe you mean a different analogy.

[p123]

Is this a joke?

[astrallite]

I'm pretty sure I can knock you out with a jab, unless you want to change my power level.

[Fox666]

Dude, if a 1307 headbutt can severly damage a 1500 opponent. Than a 1500 opponent should be able to one shot another 1500 opponent with a jab.

What about Kuririn vs Nappa?
What about Gohan vs Dodoria?
What about Piccolo kicking Freeza head?
What about normal state Vegeta kicking Android 19 cheek?
What about Gohan attacking Android 20?
What about normal state Vegeta shooting Cell from behind?
What about Tenshinhan vs Cell?

[Senzu_Bean]

Why are people talking about battle powers as if you're talking about the boiling heat of metals? It doesn't work that way!

[Herms]

It's never said in the manga that only a higher battle power can damage somebody. There were never any rules laid out.

Yeah, that's the thing that gets me about these discussions. There's not a single rule given in the manga about what it means for a character or attack to have such-and-such a battle power, or how they'll fare against others with higher or lower battle powers. But fans (of a certain persuasion) get mad at the daizenshuu or other fans or even the series sometimes for assigning battle powers that contradict some rule that they've basically just made up themselves. I guess the idea is that since a few times in the series we see someone with a known BP fight someone else with a known BP, what happens in that fight should therefore apply consistently to all other fights between characters with the same BP ratio. I guess it'd be too easy to play the whole "Toriyama didn't plan things out" card here, but there's some other problems with this. First is the fact that, as I've said before, battle powers aren't actually supposed to be especially reliable. Their main role in the story is to be an excuse for the bad guys to scream "impossible!" and then get beat up and/or die. So treating any character or attack's BP as some supreme measure of strength that sums up all their is to know about them. I know I've gone over this earlier, but I really can't stress this enough, since some people really don't seem to get it. It baffles me that anyone could watch the series, with its countless variations on the line "you rely on your scouter too much", and come away thinking that scouters and the numbers they display are the bee's knees.

The other thing is that even if we treat BP numbers as reliable, they're still just going to be one factor in any given fight. I mean, in any real RPG, if you only knew what two characters' HP was or something, you wouldn't be at all informed enough to know how a fight between them would turn out. Now, if one character had ten times the HP of the other, you'd probably be wise to bet on them winning, but when it comes to closer gaps, who knows what would happen?

[p123]

The only reason " You rely on your scouter to much " is because fighters can suppress their ki. Scouters are very reliable, and many fighters base their opinion on their ability to win specifically off of the scouter readings. It's just that the Z fighter's can suppress which means the scouter cannot give a true reading to how strong said opponent is.


Nothing indicates that fighters aren't aware of how a scouter readings numbers, and their own power relate.

[Duo]

This is really beginning to degenerate into a more traditional "pointless power levels" thread. And it makes me a sad panda.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

The only reason " You rely on your scouter to much " is because fighters can suppress their ki. Scouters are very reliable, and many fighters base their opinion on their ability to win specifically off of the scouter readings. It's just that the Z fighter's can suppress which means the scouter cannot give a true reading to how strong said opponent is.


Nothing indicates that fighters aren't aware of how a scouter readings numbers, and their own power relate.

I think the point is, if Scouters were only included in the story to freak the villains out, there probably wasn't really any meaning to the numbers. Toriyama would throw in a big number, have the villain shout "Impossible!!" and that was the end of it. That's why some fans say that applying battle power numbers to pre-Raditz characters, or post-Freeza characters, doesn't make much sense. Because Toriyama wasn't thinking about having it all make sense.

I mean, you've got characters in the early arcs, like Piccolo Daimao, getting "several times stronger," which kinda makes any pre-Raditz power level list almost impossibe to make, when you consider that Goku and Piccolo only had battle power ratings barely over 400, when they fought Raditz.

Hell, what about that Kamehameha that Goku fired at Vegeta? His battle power was apparently over 32,000 (and Vegeta's blast, which was also knocked back into him, was just as strong), so how come it didn't kill Vegeta, with a "measly" power of 18,000? I don't think there was much thought put into these numbers.

[Fox666]

Actually something left very clear in the series is that saiyans and a few characters (Piccolo, Reecome, Freeza) have great endurance.

Many characters commented the endurance of them already, such as Goku vs Piccolo in the 23rd tournament, Goku vs Nappa, or Zarbon vs Vegeta.

See for example Dodoria, Vegeta killed him with a simply blast.

On the other hand, Vegeta survives blows times stronger than him. Goku believed that the Genki-Dama would destroy his Oozaru self, but could't kill Vegeta in his normal form.

I think Majin Boo is the only main villain (post Piccolo) without endurance. He can be "injured" with blasts from individuals much weaker than him.

[astrallite]

Do you mean durability? Endurance is usually linked to cardio.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Keep in mind that Goku said that his Genki-Dama had already lost half of its power, because Vegeta blasted him. But yeah, Vegeta wasn't half as strong in his normal form, he was ten times weaker! Obviously, there wasn't a great amount of thought put into thia stuff.

Doesn't the "durability" thing kinda prove what Herms said, though? That a high battle power isn't all that there is to a fight? (Nappa did say that the Saibaimen rival Raditz in power only, so there are obviously some other factors.)

[astrallite]

The only time when durability is really logically applied is with Androids 17 and 18 during their battles in the Android arc. With Vegeta at the end of the Sayan Saga it seemed more like the "Final Boss" syndrome to me. Especially when you consider his next three fights, versus Freeza, Android 18, and Cell. Vegeta is the definition of the sloppy brawler throwing the over rights. He basically blows his load all at once.

[dbgtFO]

Vegeta is the definition of the sloppy brawler throwing the over rights. He basically blows his load all at once.

Was this intentional or what?