Moments FUNimation's English Dub Did Better?

[MR.Mark]

How about "science"? English speakers don't seem to have trouble with that one.

Science is Latin in origin and was pronounced ski-en-tia when it arrived in English. It mutated over the last thousand years into a form we all accept because it's 'just how it's done'.

It's impossible to tell, since it didn't actually turn out this way, but I'd be curious if you'd say that if it had just been pronounced correctly in FUNimation's dub from the start and the "say" never existed in our ears.

And if the colonies lost the war, I'd be singing God Save The Queen too.

Although, right now, I'm not sure what my point was. I'm gonna go with "Just because it sounds right to a long-time fan of the JP version doesn't mean it's not weird".

Now excuse me while I go watch some Dragon Ball Kay.

[linkdude20002001]

Although, right now, I'm not sure what my point was. I'm gonna go with "Just because it sounds right to a long-time fan of the JP version doesn't mean it's not weird".

As I said: Saiyan... Ryan... The only reason you think it sounds weird is because you're used to "Seiyan", and because obviously you're the usual stubborn American. It the same reason we're the only country to not use the metric system. >_< Luckily, I have at least one friend who's excepting to change, and although he's someone who grew up watching the English dub (and only the English dub), he now says Saiyan (correctly) because he hears me saying it.

[Bussani]

The only reason you think it sounds weird is because you're used to "Seiyan", and because obviously you're the usual stubborn American.

I don't think that's a fair accusation. He's explained why he thinks it's weird, but you're ignoring that and coming up with your own reason for him.

[TriforceCaptre]

I'll never understand the argument about words sounding weird in english or them being hard to say for kids so they get changed.

Did nobody else watch or read Ninja Turtles as a kid? "Oroku Saki"? "Hamato Yoshi"? "Usagi Yojimbo"? Nunchaku, Sai, Katana? Etc.
I don't remember a whole lot of playground talk of how tough it was to say these things. Or accidental mispronounciation in general for that matter

[Gaffer Tape]

The only reason you think it sounds weird is because you're used to "Seiyan", and because obviously you're the usual stubborn American.

I don't think that's a fair accusation. He's explained why he thinks it's weird, but you're ignoring that and coming up with your own reason for him.

I don't think that's fair to say. All of Rocketman's reasoning in this has basically boiled down to "it sounds weird." In fact, I believe he's stated that verbatim. Maybe the "usual stubborn American" thing is a bit of hyperbole, but even that doesn't seem like much hyperbole considering he's gone on to say that it's apparently weird to "American ears" despite many other words having the same consonant and vowel combinations. So he thinks it sounds weird to him. That's perfectly fine. His opinion. But there's absolutely nothing empirical being presented in that argument, nor is any legitimate reasoning being given for why that makes it correct to change to a different pronounciation.

Also see TriforceCaptre's argument above mine. Brilliant.

[Bussani]

English is a descendant of German and inherited that language's tendency for gutteral noises. Those names don't have a hard noise and thus sound far too soft, especially the one that's a homonym for the voiceless onomatopoeia "sighin'".

This was his reasoning, which is a bit more than just, "It sounds bad to me." And while I don't know a lot about linguistics, it doesn't seem to me that any of the Ninja Turtle words/names TriforceCaptre listed have that same quirk he's talking about.

For the record, I don't have a problem with "Sigh-an".

[Gaffer Tape]

No matter how wrapped it is in linguistic jargon, it doesn't change the fact that the core message is the opinion of, "This sounds weird." He can talk all he wants about the Germanic origins of our language and prediliction for guttaral noises, but it doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of words in our language that get by just fine without meeting that criteria, nor does it change the irrelevancy of the argument to begin with. TriforceCaptre's point had nothing to do with his list of words containing the same sound. It was simply, "These Japanese names sound weird to the English language, but it's irrelevant because it provides no justification for changing it, just as this Japanese-influenced-alien word might sound weird to the English language, but it's irrelevant because it provides no justification for changing it."

[TonyTheTiger]

I just don't understand the unwillingness to admit that sometimes we just latch on to things that we're introduced to early on. Say-an vs. Sigh-an, character voices, music, etc.

Instead of trying to come up with some roundabout justification what's the big deal with admitting "yeah, it's what I got used to and I don't see much of a reason to change now"? Does that somehow make your opinion less valid? I really don't think so. It's OK to be human.

I say Say-an because I've been saying it for 15 years. Somebody else says Sigh-an for the same reason. Deal with it. It's no big to do and there's not much of a justification beyond that.

[linkdude20002001]

I don't think that's a fair accusation. He's explained why he thinks it's weird, but you're ignoring that and coming up with your own reason for him.

Rocketman said "'Sighan' sounds bad in English for the same reason Yamhan does. English is a descendant of German and inherited that language's tendency for gutteral noises. Those names don't have a hard noise and thus sound far too soft, especially the one that's a homonym for the voiceless onomatopoeia 'sighin'." and "I'm gonna go with 'Just because it sounds right to a long-time fan of the JP version doesn't mean it's not weird'.".

His claim makes no sense. He's just making stuff up. We've already got words and names in both English and German that are soft like Saiyan. If the name Ryan is acceptable and not bad/weird, and the German word meine is acceptable and not bad/weird, then there is absolutely nothing bad/weird about Saiyan.

[Puto]

For what it's worth, the German dub of DBZ says "Saiyajin" perfectly.

[TriforceCaptre]

And while I don't know a lot about linguistics, it doesn't seem to me that any of the Ninja Turtle words/names TriforceCaptre listed have that same quirk he's talking about.

I mentioned "Sai".
It's not the word itself but the same "strange sounding to us" sound is used in such words as "Saiyan"...which is one of the words RocketMan pointed out.

But anyway, Gaffer Tape described the real point of my whole argument better than I probably could have .
Just wanted to throw out that example.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

"Heil" and "mein" are German words with an "eye" sound. Just Saiyan.

[Rocketman]

"Saiyajin"

Ryan

Hard, guttural noises.


Greetings, pronouns, and similar minor words are soft(er) because they're intended to be quickly said and glossed over.

[linkdude20002001]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what a gutteral sound is. What about Sly? It's a nickname, but it still sounds quite soft, and is used as a name. I would also bring up "King Kai", but I think the K sound might be gutteral.

[Rocketman]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what a gutteral sound is. What about Sly? It's a nickname, but it still sounds quite soft, and is used as a name. I would also bring up "King Kai", but I think the K sound might be gutteral.

My apologies, I intended the comma as "hard and/or guttural noises". Guttural noises are those like "Reich".

Nicknames are inherently diminutive.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Either way, "It sounds weird" isn't a very good argument.

[violadude]

I don't say "Saiyan" or "Seiyan" I just stick with Saiya-jin

[Bussani]

"just as this Japanese-influenced-alien word might sound weird to the English language, but it's irrelevant because it provides no justification for changing it."

Hm, is that really so? I mean, I agree with not changing the pronunciation of foreign names, but Saiyan isn't a foreign name. It's based on one, sure, but it's been retooled for English speakers already, or we'd be saying Saiya-jin. Is it natural to keep the pronunciation of saiya the same even if the overall pronunciation in English--which the name has been retooled for--isn't normal for an English word, or is this just a preference we've decided on? I honestly don't know, but it seems like stuff that's worth bringing up, no matter what your final stance on the matter is.

[caejones]

I was thinking about something related to this "what you're used to" argument yesterday.
Someone posted in a thread here that they thought that the 90s X-men cartoon was miscast, and I couldn't think of many notable examples that I'd've agreed with. I finally concluded it's probably because that's what I heard first and longest.
Meanwhile, the TMNT voices have varied between the 1987 cartoon, the movies, the live-action series and the 2003 cartoon. They tend to keep the same general themes and even pitch-ranges for the characters, but the differences are usually not that jarring to me.
Meanwhile, hearing Wolverine sound all deep-voiced always throws me off. Is it the massive gap between the different incarnations that makes the difference?

Regarding Saiyan... well, we have the word cyan, which Jaws pronounces the way "Saiyan" should be pronounced.
But...
A couple years back, I tried to record lines from Toyble's AF, using the "cyan" pronunciation... and it just seemed extremely awkward.

Anyone remember that one DBZ toy commercial in which the narrator pronounced it "cyan"? (They eventually redid that commercial with the "Sayin'" pronunciation).

[TonyTheTiger]

What's this guy's name?



What's this guy's name?



I'm just...Saiyan.