Manga Guide thoughts?

[linkdude20002001]

Too harsh? I just said that Viz's release "isn't as it should be". Are you saying it should be censored...?

[CODii]

Unfortunately even if it isn't "as it should be," as an English speaker the Viz translation is really all you have. I'm not going to get much good out of the Kanzenban since I cannot read them.

Except this thread was never about the quality or availability of Viz's translations...

Except that's kind of exactly where the conversation has gone.

[SHINOBI-03]

The topic went in a different direction from what I've intended. So, I'll ask questions:

How many versions did Viz release the manga as? I know at least four:

- Old Monthlies with covers like this:



- Small collected volumes like these:


By Bussani

- Smaller, currently released under "Shonen Jump" label:



- And lastly, Viz's VizBig releases:




When did the first two got released and how far did they cover of the series before getting replaced with the Shonen Jump versions?

[Gaffer Tape]

As far as I remember, the first set of graphic novels got through ten volumes each (1-10 and abbreviated 17-26).

[Herms]

As far as I remember, the first set of graphic novels got through ten volumes each (1-10 and abbreviated 17-26).

Yeah, both for DB and DBZ they had ten volumes of those larger graphic novels before switching to the smaller, Shonen Jump line versions. I distinctly remember because this switch in formats resulted in an unusually long gap between the release of DBZ volume 10 and DBZ volume 11, so I had to wait quite a while to finally see Super Saiyan Goku in manga form.

[Mewzard]

In factoring Viz' Shonen Jump run, one must consider that, pre-Viz Media, there was much less censoring. In fact, barely at all in the first volumes of the Dragon Ball portion. Everything T rated used to be mostly uncensored. Then I recall it going from Viz to Viz Media, and Zoro became Zolo, Damns and Hells became Darns and Hecks, and other such censorships occurred. It was rather odd to a youth who then enjoyed his freedom to experience very little edits in his manga in a legal purchase.

Some series never did get majorly censored, even when Viz Media took over. Aside from a bit of language, I don't recall Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo changing much from the OT Shonen Jump Advance preview volume of the Halekulani Arc (which was pretty much as uncut as old Viz used to do Teen stuff), to the Viz Media version of the ongoing series, which was actually Teen, though it's a parody series. I also checked my volumes of Saint Seiya just now, and they still use Hell, even after becoming Viz Media...though that might be allowed due to them going to Hell quite literally...no censoring of some of the rather graphic violence at times either. I guess Dragon Ball just tends to get the short end of the stick.

Even if the site's main focus is the original version, it being one of the biggest English Dragon Ball fansites I know of would lend to having a moderate bit of info on the English releases of the manga, for those who might want to know which version to track down. Just a suggestion from a fan, but not for me. I've got my best fit manga purchase until we get full uncut releases.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Too harsh? I just said that Viz's release "isn't as it should be". Are you saying it should be censored...?

Oh, for goodness sake...

I'm not saying it should be censored. I'm saying that, censorship aside, Viz's release is fine as it is and the translation is actually good, unlike FUNi's old dub of Dragon Ball, which portrayed a number of characters wrongly, added in bad-taste jokes where there was none and generally bastardized the script--that's what you call "isn't as it should be". Viz's censorship doesn't destroy Dragon Ball, nor do their "Viz-isms" (Vegerot*, Full Metal Jacket, etc.). Is an insignificant change such as Boo being called a "djinn" going to really affect how you feel reading the manga?

If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

*Which, btw, is actually correct, considering they and the majority of the English fandom use "Kakarrot" rather than "Kakarroto".

[SHINOBI-03]

Oh, for goodness sake...

I'm not saying it should be censored. I'm saying that, censorship aside, Viz's release is fine as it is and the translation is actually good, unlike FUNi's old dub of Dragon Ball, which portrayed a number of characters wrongly, added in bad-taste jokes where there was none and generally bastardized the script--that's what you call "isn't as it should be". Viz's censorship doesn't destroy Dragon Ball, nor do their "Viz-isms" (Vegerot*, Full Metal Jacket, etc.). Is an insignificant change such as Boo being called a "djinn" going to really affect how you feel reading the manga?

If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

*Which, btw, is actually correct, considering they and the majority of the English fandom use "Kakarrot" rather than "Kakarroto".

For those who are annoyed of these minor name changes, or any kind of change. Is it too hard to "auto-correct" it in your minds?! That's what I do when I read.

[VegettoEX]

For those who are annoyed of these minor name changes, or any kind of change. Is it too hard to "auto-correct" it in your minds?! That's what I do when I read.

For the most part I can, except for one particular character's name who is not only mentioned in dialogue, but has it edited and re-painted across various buildings and appliances... it gets a little overwhelming.

But I shouldn't have to (self-correct).

*Which, btw, is actually correct, considering they and the majority of the English fandom use "Kakarrot" rather than "Kakarroto".

Knock off the small text.

Without getting "into it" all over again, yeah, that's perfectly fine if you're going for an ADAPTATION of what the original name is. Me? My ideology with names? That's not how I prefer to do it. That's not what I want to read. As much as I might get a kick out of it, you can't call me "God-like" or "Godly" or some such -- my name is "Michael", and that's what I should be called, not something that's based around its originally-intended meaning, history, etc.

"Vegerot" is an adaptation of his name, sure... but it's not his name. As I've been writing about in a few other posts, name spellings I prefer are ones that approximate the intended Japanese pronunciation as well as bring out some of the pun -- "Vegerot" only does one of the two, so it's right out for me.

[Piccolo Daimao]

*Which, btw, is actually correct, considering they and the majority of the English fandom use "Kakarrot" rather than "Kakarroto".

Knock off the small text.

Without getting "into it" all over again, yeah, that's perfectly fine if you're going for an ADAPTATION of what the original name is. Me? My ideology with names? That's not how I prefer to do it. That's not what I want to read. As much as I might get a kick out of it, you can't call me "God-like" or "Godly" or some such -- my name is "Michael", and that's what I should be called, not something that's based around its originally-intended meaning, history, etc.

"Vegerot" is an adaptation of his name, sure... but it's not his name. As I've been writing about in a few other posts, name spellings I prefer are ones that approximate the intended Japanese pronunciation as well as bring out some of the pun -- "Vegerot" only does one of the two, so it's right out for me.

What the hell is wrong with me writing small text? I just think it wasn't part of my main argument in my post. Jeez...

And I disagree with you. If you're going to go with Kakarrot, then you really should go with Vegerot, since that's combining both Vegeta and Kakarrot's name. If you don't use "Kakarotto" and still go with "Vegetto", it may feel more comfortable for you to use, but it's still inconsistent. It may be an adaptation, but it's the correct adaptation if you're using "Kakarrot".

It's the same as people who use both "Super Saiyan" and "SSj". You may feel more comfortable using the abbreviation "SSj", but unless you actually use the term "Saiya-jin", you're still being inconsistent.

[Herms]

It's not like inconsistency is the end of the world. And if you want to go down that road, Viz uses several different names for West City, the Zanzo-ken technique, the androids, etc.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's not like inconsistency is the end of the world. And if you want to go down that road, Viz uses several different names for West City, the Zanzo-ken technique, the androids, etc.

Yes, I know Viz use several different names for things. Point is?

[B]

Oh, for goodness sake...

I'm not saying it should be censored. I'm saying that, censorship aside, Viz's release is fine as it is and the translation is actually good, unlike FUNi's old dub of Dragon Ball, which portrayed a number of characters wrongly, added in bad-taste jokes where there was none and generally bastardized the script--that's what you call "isn't as it should be". Viz's censorship doesn't destroy Dragon Ball, nor do their "Viz-isms" (Vegerot*, Full Metal Jacket, etc.). Is an insignificant change such as Boo being called a "djinn" going to really affect how you feel reading the manga?

If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

You still aren't getting it. EX's whole point was it's not the original version. The text has been changed from Japanese to English; accuracy of translations be damned. It isn't the same as FUNimation's Season sets/Ultimate Uncuts/DBOX, because you can play the Japanese version without subs. The flat, simple, original work is right there. Would you stop with the sub/dub nonsense?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Oh, for goodness sake...

I'm not saying it should be censored. I'm saying that, censorship aside, Viz's release is fine as it is and the translation is actually good, unlike FUNi's old dub of Dragon Ball, which portrayed a number of characters wrongly, added in bad-taste jokes where there was none and generally bastardized the script--that's what you call "isn't as it should be". Viz's censorship doesn't destroy Dragon Ball, nor do their "Viz-isms" (Vegerot*, Full Metal Jacket, etc.). Is an insignificant change such as Boo being called a "djinn" going to really affect how you feel reading the manga?

If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

You still aren't getting it. EX's whole point was it's not the original version. The text has been changed from Japanese to English; accuracy of translations be damned. It isn't the same as FUNimation's Season sets/Ultimate Uncuts/DBOX, because you can play the Japanese version without subs. The flat, simple, original work is right there. Would you stop with the sub/dub nonsense?

Sub/dub nonsense...? Fine, whatever. I was just annoyed that linkdude20002001 said it "isn't as it should be", as if it was a poor representation of the product. But if VegettoEX only wants to put on the original verison, then that's fine.

[B]

Sub/dub nonsense...? Fine, whatever. I was just annoyed that linkdude20002001 said it "isn't as it should be", as if it was a poor representation of the product. But if VegettoEX only wants to put on the original verison, then that's fine.

I used "sub/dub nonsense" in a general sense, as your problem, which you just stated, was that it was being made out to be a poor translation. I'm saying that's not what happened and you misunderstood, then proceeded to derail the thread.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Sub/dub nonsense...? Fine, whatever. I was just annoyed that linkdude20002001 said it "isn't as it should be", as if it was a poor representation of the product. But if VegettoEX only wants to put on the original verison, then that's fine.

I used "sub/dub nonsense" in a general sense, as your problem, which you just stated, was that it was being made out to be a poor translation. I'm saying that's not what happened and you misunderstood, then proceeded to derail the thread.

Fine. Let's end it here, before we derail this thread any further.

Oh, and sorry to linkdude20002001 for misunderstanding.

[linkdude20002001]

Sub/dub nonsense...? Fine, whatever. I was just annoyed that linkdude20002001 said it "isn't as it should be", as if it was a poor representation of the product. But if VegettoEX only wants to put on the original verison, then that's fine.

Well, I'm pretty sure I've tried to make this clear already, but I don't think it's a poor representation of the product (except for in the particular copies that censor the dialogue to the point where perverted characters are re-written). You took "isn't as it should be" to mean something I didn't intend; I only meant it in the most literal use of said phrase.

As for whether Daizenshuu EX should have a comic guide, or not, I think it should because it's the "all encompassing DB fansite" that covers "anything and everything DB". I always thought it was odd there wasn't some sort of guide made a long time ago.

[Herms]

Yes, I know Viz use several different names for things. Point is?

Point being that if Viz uses several different names for where Bulma lives, or the guys Gero makes, I don't see why when it comes to Vegetto suddenly consistency is priority #1. They could just switch to spelling Goku's Saiyan name as "Kakarotto" for the last volume, or still use "Kakarot" and ignore the fact that this results in "Vegetto" not making sense. It's not like they didn't do similar things other times.

[CODii]

Since the original intent of this thread was to determine what were the various Viz releases, I thought I would point the OP toward episode #97 of the podcast. They do a fairly good job of covering the various manga releases.