Kaioshin

[p123]

@ Kaboom

It would have to be Perfect Cell Suppressed, who fought USSJ Vegeta/USSJ2 Trunks/50% MSSJ Goku


Toriyama actually included lightning for SPC vs SSJ2 Kid Gohan ,Gohan at the Budokai, Dabura's blast against Gohan, SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, SSJ2 Majin Vegeta vs Fat buu, SSJ2 Goku vs Fat Buu, SSJ3 Goku vs Fat Buu, SSJ2(?)-SSj3 Gotenks vs Super Buu , SSJ2 Vegeta vs Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku vs Kid Buu.

So as you can see, AT appears to be very consistent with his SSJ2 lightning aura. That brings down the likelihood of Gohan being a SSJ2. Also, Gohan's SSJ hair at the Budokai is exactly the same as he was against Dabura.


So the likelihood of Gohan being a SSJ2 against Dabura, seems to be a low percentage chance IMO.

Also, Gohan needs rage to turn SSJ2, he never trained over the 7 years, and cannot access the transformation of free will whenever he wants.


All i said is there are two sides. Pick your poison suggests both options are sucky hence the poison ...

[dbgtFO]

All i said is there are two sides. Pick your poison suggests both options are sucky hence the poison ...

Yeah, I don't understand how that is hard to get.

I would have liked, if Daiz 7 actually gave us some reasoning for why Gohan was a SSJ 2 vs. Dabra.
Did they ask Toriyama about it? Did they just say he was a SSJ 2, because of Goku's comment about Dabra's power? Or was it because Kaioshin based Gohan's greatness on his fight with Dabra, meaning he had to be a SSJ 2 for it to feel greater, than when he turned into one in front of Kibito.
Did they read the manga?
Although I honestly can't expect such questions to be answered, I would like to know what went through their minds, when they made it.

[p123]

It's too bad that there was never an interview from AT about all of these issues in the Buu Saga.


The story fits so much easier if you think Goku's comment was about a suppression of Cell though, the rest of the story does seem to fall in line with that train of thought. It's a shame though, how one statement can cause so many to totally rewrite the entire manga, instead of just accepting a vague statement for what it is. But still at the end of the day, AT should have done better.

[Fox666]

There are legitimate errors in the Daizenshuu, so that doesn't exactly help.

So does the manga.....

[Senzu_Bean]

There are legitimate errors in the Daizenshuu, so that doesn't exactly help.

I never found one though.

Thus every character is comparable to each other cause every character can be comparable to a part of that character power.

Bulma is comparable to Goku; Yamcha is comparable to Freeza, Etc.

That's a disgustingly-strawman'd exaggeration and you know it. I was merely making a general point about the non-specificness of the comparison in question.

I don't think it is, according to such logic.

The story fits so much easier if you think Goku's comment was about a suppression of Cell though, the rest of the story does seem to fall in line with that train of thought.

Absolutely not.

[p123]

All Goku says is that Dabura is somewhere around Cell. Then we later see that Dabura is fighting evenly with a SSJ Gohan who is weaker than he was as a Kid...


Perfect Cell > PC Powered Up = SSJ Kid Gohan >> Dabura >= SSJ Teen Gohan



I don't get why there is such a big issue?

1) Gohan didn't train, he cannot transform SSJ2 of free will
2) Vegeta/Goku's talk regarding Dabura imply an MSSJ can take him out
3) Gohan talks about Goku/Vegeta fighting on a level above SSJ as if he and Dabura are not on that level
4) Goku tells Gohan to get angry to reach SSJ2 to beat Dabura
5) The damage SSJ Gohan received adds a minimal amount to the Buu meter meanwhile SSJ2 Goku's damage fills up Buu's meter very quickly..


I mean is this issue really supposed to be this debatable? For one vague comment?

[Senzu_Bean]

All Goku says is that Dabura is somewhere around Cell.

No! Goku says Dabura and Cell are about the same. Later he says he is even better.

1) Gohan didn't train, he cannot transform SSJ2 of free will

What?!

2) Vegeta/Goku's talk regarding Dabura imply an MSSJ can take him out

No, it doesn't.

3) Gohan talks about Goku/Vegeta fighting on a level above SSJ as if he and Dabura are not on that level

The first is true, the second is not.

4) Goku tells Gohan to get angry to reach SSJ2 to beat Dabura

False!

5) The damage SSJ Gohan received adds a minimal amount to the Buu meter meanwhile SSJ2 Goku's damage fills up Buu's meter very quickly..

Dabura didn't damage Gohan at all.


Seriously, if you pull false statements from your ass you better don't say anything.

[p123]

What?!

Gohan needs a rage catalyst to access SSJ2.


Vegeta and Goku both confirm that the level their on now would beat Dabura. Later, Goku uses a SSJ2 burst, in which Vegeta acknowledges that Goku has SSJ2. If a SSJ2 was needed to beat Dabura, Vegeta wouldn't have needed to acknowledge that Goku had SSJ2, it would have already been assumed.

Dabura didn't damage Gohan at all.

He actually did. Just a small amount. Look at the killi meter it moves...

[dbgtFO]

5) The damage SSJ Gohan received adds a minimal amount to the Buu meter meanwhile SSJ2 Goku's damage fills up Buu's meter very quickly..

Dabura didn't damage Gohan at all.


Seriously, if you pull false statements from your ass you better don't say anything.

Here you are wrong.
Dabra hit Gohan with an energy ball and Gohan didn't block. Also Babidi stated, that Dabra should damage him more, implying, that yes Gohan was in fact damaged, but it wasn't like SSJ 2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta.

[Senzu_Bean]

Gohan needs a rage catalyst to access SSJ2.

Sure. He also need to eat waffles.

If a SSJ2 was needed to beat Dabura, Vegeta wouldn't have needed to acknowledge that Goku had SSJ2, it would have already been assumed.

And he did. Vegeta says both him and Goku are stronger than Gohan is now.

He actually did. Just a small amount. Look at the killi meter it moves...

It doesn't. Babidi clearly says if Dabura doesn't damage Gohan they can't use his energy.

[Fox666]

Gohan needs a rage catalyst to access SSJ2.

No, he don't. He showed it to Kibito at will.

Goku was refering to Gohan rage power that he had since the beggining of the series. (This power was finally unleashed when he turned in the "ultimate warrior")

[Kaboom]

Gohan needs a rage catalyst to access SSJ2.

Sure. He also need to eat waffles.

If we're going to resort to snide, dismissive bologna like this, then thread over. I'm nipping it in the bud before it gets any worse, and the other three dumb-argument threads are on my shit-list, too.