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[Nippolyte]

Dabura ~ SSJ Gohan >>>>> Dabura Estimate >>> Initial Dabura ~ Kibito



I think Goku saying way,way stronger changes things. He said the same as Cell, it's hard to imagine that he meant Perfect Cell considering everything, I think there's more play on Goku saying Dabura ~ Semi Cell level of power or so...And perhaps Dabura's power that was shown against Kibito, which vegeta says Kibito probably could have managed to get away if not for him being a bumbling idiot, would probably be somewhere around Imperfect Cell - Semi Cell type of range...

Gohan may have gotten weaker during those seven years, but I think Dabura would have to at least be quite a bit stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell to go head to head with Adult Gohan, even if he was weaker than his kid self. Take into account how pathetic that form of Cell is when compared to anyone at ascended saiyan level or above. He can't keep up in the slightest.

[Nazi Cola]

I honestly cannot see Dabra at Semi-Perfect Cell's level. Piccolo was already most likely at or above that level during the Cell Games. Factor in more training over 7 years, Kaioshin being in an entirely different dimension of strength than even that, and then Kaioshin being afraid of Dabra, and you can't logically (lol... DB, logic... lol) have Dabra that weak.

Not according to Herms translation. Piccolo only says perhaps surpassed Gohan...

That's honestly very surprising. Every other translation I've seen has had him saying what Turlast said. Weird, but oh well.

That implies Goku couldn't be very much above Kid Gohan either, which is startling to me.

[p123]

No no no... I am only saying that Goku's first estimation could have possibly been of Semi Cell. Not that Dabura is around Semi Cell's level.

But your right, for Kaioshin to be so fearful, and the Z fighters to be aware of Kaioshin's power wouldn't make sense in total.

So I guess the next step up would be Perfect Cell Suppressed who fought USSJ Vegeta/USSJ2 Trunks/50% Goku, that may be better suited I would guess for Goku's first estimation.

Rememeber it's about Dabura being around SSJ Gohan, and Goku's first estimation being way weaker than that. So Goku thought that Dabura was way weaker than SSJ Gohan initially, but later changes his mind seeing how he fights Gohan without completely winning. Lol.

[Kaboom]

So wait, are we now suggesting that nothing about Goku's initial estimate of "about as strong as Cell" says it has to mean "Perfect Cell's full power," and could just as easily mean Perfect Cell at a lower level of power or even a lower form?

... Where have I heard that little revelation before?

[p123]

Haha, Kaboom it's interesting. Me and you do actually agree on a shit ton of stuff, but it seems the stuff we disagree on we need to go to straight war about. I don't know why? Whether I'm getting the new guy treatment, my style is infuriating or what, something is going on. Lol. I don't mind heated debates here and there, but god damn... You would think for two people who agree on a majority of issues it would go down a bit smoother. I think when one person has a totally different view than another it almost makes you attach a stigmatism that that person is an idiot. But when you agree with them, they are smart. Lol. I don't know if were doing that subconciously, but I think I will try to ease up. But it's so damn hard, we just go to war when we disagree strongly. Ah, the passion of Dragonball fans always amazes me..

[Fox666]

Dude, don't get me wrong, but it's the way you talk talk that infuriate people.

"So Goku is 90,000? When was that stated? The manga states he is 60,000, are you going to argue against the manga? 'Look at me, I am Toriyama and will say that Goku is 60,000 when he truly is 90,000'"

[Nazi Cola]

Well, hey, let's calm down here.

[Fox666]

See? And I was just playing to be you

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I really cannot believe the English version was way off with this line:

Context: before Gohan fires the Kamehameha at Boo’s ball
Gohan: “An-anyhow, I’ve gone and reached my full power, so…At the very least…Uaaaah! I’ll offer this much resistance!”

Cot damn! That's mind-blowing! He was actually referring to himself here, while he's referring to Boo's full-power in the English version. I remember always making it a point to correct those who used those dranet scans that had Gohan mentioning he reached full-power. You learn something new every day.

[lash]

It might not have been so off...

Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P4.1-5
Context: before Gohan fires the Kamehameha at Boo’s ball
Gohan: “An-anyhow, I’ve gone and reached my full power, so…At the very least…Uaaaah! I’ll offer this much resistance!”

Wasn't it Boo, who had reached his full power?

Looking at it again, I think you're right. There's no pronoun to clarify exactly who has reached full power, but in context it probably makes more sense to assume Gohan's talking about Boo. For one thing, he uses the English phrase 'full power', which is how Babidi was describing Boo, but not how Goku, Gohan, or Kaioshin described Gohan's full power (they used Japanese terms like zenryoku or jitsuryoku). Anyone know what Simmons' subs say here?

[p123]

Yea the way it's worded it seems better to for Gohan to be talking about Buu. Gohan certainly is not anywhere near full power.


No my style is more like Kaioken is stated to double the user power, his Kaioken was 180 k, which means his base is 90k. Fact. If you disagree, I will make silly jokes about your POV. Teeheehee

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P4.1-5
Context: before Gohan fires the Kamehameha at Boo’s ball
Gohan: “An-anyhow, I’ve gone and reached my full power, so…At the very least…Uaaaah! I’ll offer this much resistance!”

Wasn't it Boo, who had reached his full power?

Looking at it again, I think you're right. There's no pronoun to clarify exactly who has reached full power, but in context it probably makes more sense to assume Gohan's talking about Boo. For one thing, he uses the English phrase 'full power', which is how Babidi was describing Boo, but not how Goku, Gohan, or Kaioshin described Gohan's full power (they used Japanese terms like zenryoku or jitsuryoku). Anyone know what Simmons' subs say here?

Whew

Good looking, sir Lash.

[p123]

Also when Vegeta says we could manage something against Dabura, I would think Vegeta is talking about his Base power. SSJ Vegeta considers Dabura's power pathetic, which that power Dabura shows, is way stronger than what they first thought Dabura was...

[Savage68]

... Seriously? Honestly?

[dbgtFO]

IMO the version of Cell, Goku should be referring to is Perfect Cell Full Power.
If Dabra was way stronger than Super Perfect Cell it would be a huge stretch to me.
That would mean that Gohan was significantly stronger, than Super Perfect Cell, when fighting Dabra and Cell Games Gohan would be way above that, which seems pretty fucked up to me.
So it makes more sense, if Goku was referring to Perfect Cell Full Power.

[Senzu_Bean]

... Seriously? Honestly?

You bet. People are even suggesting that Dabra is about Semi-Perfect Cell's power. Like comparing him to a fraction of Perfect Cell's power isn't ridiculous enough, now they compare him to different stages of Cell.

[Kaboom]

... Seriously? Honestly?

You bet. People are even suggesting that Dabra is about Semi-Perfect Cell's power. Like comparing him to a fraction of Perfect Cell's power isn't ridiculous enough, now they compare him to different stages of Cell.

Don't do this, please.

[dbgtFO]

Senzu_Bean do you think Goku compared Dabra to Perfect Cell Full Power(like me) or to Super Perfect Cell?
I am still unsure if Goku ever felt Super Perfect Cell's power...

[Senzu_Bean]

Senzu_Bean do you think Goku compared Dabra to Perfect Cell Full Power(like me) or to Super Perfect Cell?
I am still unsure if Goku ever felt Super Perfect Cell's power...

Perfect Cell, of course. Super Perfect Cell isn't Cell's power, just like Mecha-Freeza isn't Freeza's power.

[dbgtFO]

Senzu_Bean do you think Goku compared Dabra to Perfect Cell Full Power(like me) or to Super Perfect Cell?
I am still unsure if Goku ever felt Super Perfect Cell's power...

Perfect Cell, of course. Super Perfect Cell isn't Cell's power, just like Mecha-Freeza isn't Freeza's power.

Cool, I can accept that.