Dragonball Vs. Non Dragonball

[Bussani]

The upper bound in physics as we know are hypernovas and the radius is around 13 solar systems.

Even if you instantly detonated the entire mass of the universe, all 125 billion galaxies, at 100% efficiency (E=MC²), the distances between the galaxies are so vast you would not fill the entirety of space-time.

Yet the destruction of entire universes is not uncommon in DC.

Destroying a universe in DC (and most other things, really) is usually about taking out spacetime itself. It's like destroying a building's foundation instead of the building. Completely different from destroying everything in a universe and leaving space and time in tact, really.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think the DB guys are overlooked in these kind of debates just becaue the most a villian has done was destroy a planet yet we all know that they are capable of whooole lot more than that, the hereos too.

[Hellspawn28]

So Vegetto could spank them both, is what I'm getting from this.

Are you implying that Vegetto has enough power to withstand a universe-busting attack?

I've been thinking about just how senselessly stupid DC is, and have come to conclusion that their universe/multiverse itself can't possibly be that large.

Its fiction. Marvel, DC, and Image comics has a supreme being and it stated their creators give birth to infinte universes. I think DBZ characters should not fight comsic beings like Galactus, In betwener, Eternity, Infinity, Lord Chaos, Oblivion, The Endless, Mr. Mxy, Mammon, and pretty much anyone with universal or multiveral powers.

[astrallite]

The upper bound in physics as we know are hypernovas and the radius is around 13 solar systems.

Even if you instantly detonated the entire mass of the universe, all 125 billion galaxies, at 100% efficiency (E=MC²), the distances between the galaxies are so vast you would not fill the entirety of space-time.

Yet the destruction of entire universes is not uncommon in DC.

Destroying a universe in DC (and most other things, really) is usually about taking out spacetime itself. It's like destroying a building's foundation instead of the building. Completely different from destroying everything in a universe and leaving space and time in tact, really.

Space-time is created by gravity. How do you go about destroying gravity? You can't fire a gun at it.

[Rocketman]

Space-time is created by gravity.

No. Gravity warps space-time, it doesn't create it.

[astrallite]

Space-time is created by gravity.

No. Gravity warps space-time, it doesn't create it.

You should read up on quantum mechanics some time and how gravity can be a repulsive force (and is causing the expansion of the universe).

[caejones]

Space-time is created by gravity.

No. Gravity warps space-time, it doesn't create it.

You should read up on quantum mechanics some time and how gravity can be a repulsive force (and is causing the expansion of the universe).

My understanding is that gravity is the major wrench in getting quantum mechanics to explain everything... and I certainly haven't heard of gravity creating space-time (what with gravity existing because of mass, and all).

I do recall reading that quasars at their peak should be capable of tearing up nearby galaxies, though.

space-time as a concept is usually extremely etherealized in fiction, though. If... etherealized is the right word.
Dragonball's approach to time-travel makes it seem considerably less reliant on such concept-warping.
... Never mind the mystical aspects.

[Bussani]

You should read up on quantum mechanics some time and how gravity can be a repulsive force (and is causing the expansion of the universe).

That's a controversial and unprovable theory, one of many possible explanations for what "dark energy" is. And even if it did work that way and gravity could go in both directions, you could then argue that you could use gravity to destroy spacetime using the same logic. I'm not really sure if spacetime expanding/contracting is synonymous with spacetime being created/destroyed anyway, though...

Putting theoretical physics aside, most of the universe-killing things in DC and other such stuff also wield the power to create universes, so it kind of makes sense for them to be able to destroy them, too.

[jordanator]

So Vegetto could spank them both, is what I'm getting from this.

Why does it say I quoted that post? Lol I didn't even post that!

[Hellspawn28]

Here some Dragon Ball Evolution match ups:

DBE Mai vs. Kiddo from Kill Bill
DBE Chi Chi vs. Silk Spectre (Watchmen movie)
DBE Goku vs. Movie Spider-Man from Spider-Man 1-3 (Normal Suit, no Black Suit)
DBE Piccolo vs. Movie Magneto from X-Men 1-3
DBE Oozaru vs. Petter Jackson's King Kong

How does those match ups go?

[Brohan]

DBE loses really bad, iirc the best Goku could do in that was push a car, and movie spiderman held a train or something. Oozaru Goku might beat King Kong if Oozaru still gives a 10x powerup.

Oozaru Vegeta vs Viewtiful Joe/w planet sized mech
Goku/w infinity gauntlet vs 1 billion Baseline Hulks
Nappa vs Akuma

[astrallite]

Almost every Western RPG uses the D20 system these days so this is what I am going to base this off of. We know Superman can push an Earth-mass. I will, for the sake of argument, provide an arbitrary lower limit, such that he can accelerate Earth at up to 1G (9.8m/s²).

In the D20 system, Strength 10 is the base strength for the average human, which would translate to Power Level 5 (the ubiquitous farmer in the Raditz saga).

D20 uses a logarithmic strength scale, and every doubling of strength increases the strength value by 5. Using a simple Log function in Excel, I calculated that 221 Strength (in D20) is necessary to accelerate Earth to 1G. This would be 5.2E+12 times the strength of a normal human, or a power level of ≥26,000,000,000,000.

So the lower bound for the modern Superman (obviously there are more extreme versions of him, such as Superboy Prime) is 26 trillion. Superman isn't really that impressive in the DC/Marvel-verse strength wise, Darkseid and Doomsday rival his power, Superboy Prime is several tiers above, and Marvel has The Fury, which is Doomsday on drugs and would easily crush Superman.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/76 ... _super.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9855/supesjlamx9.jpg

Also Superman does not rely on ki (burst power), his has a continuous level of power generation, like the Androids. But for practical use, how close can a Z-character come to the 26 trillion mark?

[dbgtFO]

But for practical use, how close can a Z-character come to the 26 trillion mark?

Vegetto is the only one at that level.
Normal Vegetto is at least 3 trillion, so Super Vegetto would be over 150 trillion.

[astrallite]

But for practical use, how close can a Z-character come to the 26 trillion mark?

Vegetto is the only one at that level.
Normal Vegetto is at least 3 trillion, so Super Vegetto would be over 150 trillion.

Isn't SSJ a 3.75x modifier in the Buu Arc? (800 -> 3000). So Super Vegetto should be 11.25 trillion.

[dbgtFO]

But for practical use, how close can a Z-character come to the 26 trillion mark?

Vegetto is the only one at that level.
Normal Vegetto is at least 3 trillion, so Super Vegetto would be over 150 trillion.

Isn't SSJ a 3.75x modifier in the Buu Arc? (800 -> 3000). So Super Vegetto should be 11.25 trillion.

SEG states that Super Saiyan is 50 times Battle Power and since Kiri doesn't have an official conversion chart the 3,75 holds no weight.
Super Vegetto is at the very least 150 trillion.

[Ringworm128]

Konata vs Bra?

[Piccolo Daimao]

But for practical use, how close can a Z-character come to the 26 trillion mark?

Vegetto is the only one at that level.
Normal Vegetto is at least 3 trillion, so Super Vegetto would be over 150 trillion.

Isn't SSJ a 3.75x modifier in the Buu Arc? (800 -> 3000). So Super Vegetto should be 11.25 trillion.

Not that I necessarily agree with dbgtFO, but Goku only transformed to bring light to the darkness, so it's unlikely he would've been using his full power.

[Wobbuffet]

Yu Yu Hakusho-verse vs Saiyan saga DBverse.

[Bussani]

Almost every Western RPG uses the D20 system these days so this is what I am going to base this off of. We know Superman can push an Earth-mass. I will, for the sake of argument, provide an arbitrary lower limit, such that he can accelerate Earth at up to 1G (9.8m/s²).

In the D20 system, Strength 10 is the base strength for the average human, which would translate to Power Level 5 (the ubiquitous farmer in the Raditz saga).

D20 uses a logarithmic strength scale, and every doubling of strength increases the strength value by 5. Using a simple Log function in Excel, I calculated that 221 Strength (in D20) is necessary to accelerate Earth to 1G. This would be 5.2E+12 times the strength of a normal human, or a power level of ≥26,000,000,000,000.

Could you show your work for all that? Mostly the newtons you got for accelerating Earth and how you applied that to the D20 system. Just curious.

Vegetto is the only one at that level.

Don't forget Arale!

[astrallite]

Now for everybody's favorite...Superboy Prime.

Superboy Prime is supposed to be the equivalent of Silverage Superman, so I'll quantify this feat mathematically:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29 ... _super.jpg

I will assume that he is simply pulling the mass of all the planets in the solar system and accelerating it at 1G.

In D20, I got 470 strength using logarithmic analysis. This is 5E+27 times the strength of a normal human.

In otherwords, Superboy Prime's power level is 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.