Raditz

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Re: Raditz

Post by caejones » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:52 am

I'm going to repost something I wrote three years ago. :D
Considering that Raditz bears family connections to Goku, it's pretty strange that he just dies and disappears within hours of his arrival--less than six episodes in the anime, a few pages in the manga (the one DBZ manga I actually own is the Raditz fight... well, most of it... I forget if the whole thing is in that one book), and if we try to make sense of the time that passes in the story... it is well under a day between Raditz's arrival on Earth and his death.

So, what depth do we get with Raditz? It's brutally clear how different he is from Goku--all about the killing, the destruction, even willing to take out his brother and young nephew to prove how ruthless he is. But that's not all, is it? Raditz seems to care about the fact that he and "Kakarot" are of saiyan origin; he seems intent on convincing his brother that because they are both saiyans, they must follow the same path. Goku, however, doesn't care at all about his race or his heritage--he is his own person, and he isn't about to kill innocents just because some rich alien asked him to.
Then there are the similarities--but these similarities accent a few differences. For example, Raditz and Goku both have ridiculously big hair--but Raditz's is bigger and flows down his back. In early DB (first appearances) Goku spent a lot of time with minimal clothing; Raditz doesn't seem to wear anything but boots, underwear and chest armor... but Goku never went around in underwear and armor--it was all or nothing (unless weighted clothing comes into the picture), and he certainly didn't wear anything to protect himself in battle; and with Raditz, his exposed legs and arms accent his muscle tone and added to his status as a strong, barbaric killer. Naked Goku accented Goku's innocence and made for cutesy humor--quite the contrast! Goku's hair makes him look goofy--Raditz's hair makes him look like a warrior. Goku eats fiercely because he's a bottomless pit of energy... and it's always a mildly disturbing, though typically comical scene when we see him attack a meal. When we see Raditz eat, it's very cold and further accents the barbaric aspect--when Goku is out in the woods catching his own food, he makes it into a game. . . not so with Raditz.
What else does Raditz do? What purpose does he serve? He introduces Goku's heritage, introduces a race of enemies and sets up a plotline that will lead to a great many things--Nappa, Vegeta, even Freeza are all initiated by Raditz... and each of these is pivotal to the story as it unfolds. He also serves to provide a situation in which Gohan can show his hidden powers, and for Goku to be killed and thus receive the training necessary to save the day when it next needs saving...
But beyond plot mechanics, Raditz serves to show us many things. Goku was always different from his enemies in the past, but never had their relationship with him gone deeper than Tsuru Sen'nin's vengeful desires upon hearing of Goku's defeat of TaoPaipai, or Piccolo Daimao reincarnating himself to continue his fight with Goku... who only fought him because he was killing people. But with Raditz, it's all about Goku--Raditz quite literally comes to the door and tries to drag Goku into a life that is completely opposite of what he has become. We know that Goku isn't going to join him without question--but we are still shown many things along the way. We see that Piccolo can change; we see the possibility of rivals joining forces to face a common threat; we see that regardless of what Raditz may say about his family connection to Goku or their race, he is still just another threat, and he starts the trend of saiya(ji)n pride leading to defeat--though not so extreme as in later cases, Raditz completely underestimates Gohan and the power of Goku and Piccolo as a team. He is also surprised that Goku would sacrifice his life just to defeat one threat, whereas Raditz is willing to sacrifice his dignity to doop a good guy like Goku into releasing him from the jaws of death. Essentially, Raditz shows us that it doesn't matter who you're related to, what race you come from, or even how superior you are to the best--you'll still wind up meeting a dishonorable end if you walk the path of evil.
The fact that Raditz dies and disappears so quickly, even though he is a blood relation of the main character accents his main theme even further. So, he's Goku's brother. But that doesn't mean anything to Goku--he's still just an evil brute trying to spread destruction and force others to become someone they aren't because of something over which they have no power. And we know what Goku does to wanna-be serial killers... so Raditz's disappearance after his defeat follows the same theme as the entire Saiya(ji)n race: it doesn't matter who you're related to, what race you are, or what class you're from... you're still an individual, and your choices will shape your destiny.

... That said, more Raditz would have been awesome. :D
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Re: Raditz

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:10 am

caejones wrote:I'm going to repost something I wrote three years ago. :D
OMG awesome read!!
I've never heard anything that deep about DragonBall related stuff other than theories about the ending of GT.
It's cool, if what you're saying is what Toriyama intended for the reader to understand(that whole thing about no matter who you are, you will have to face the consequenses of your actions, even if you're the brother of the main character.)

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Re: Raditz

Post by Codarik » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:36 pm

One of my favorite characters. I do like listening to Raditz more in Z than Kai. In Z, Justin Cook made his Raditz voice calm, cool, and sinister. In Kai, his voice made it seem like Raditz was yelling all the time.

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Re: Raditz

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:47 pm

I'll be perfectly honest. I never understood Raditz's motivation. You're one of but four survivors of your species. Your entire culture and civilization are gone. You're also essentially homeless. Yet you decide to just keep doing what you've been doing all along? Conquering planets? For what? Unlike Vegeta, Raditz never had it out for Freeza so what was his endgame? Let's say he won and killed Goku and Piccolo. What now? What's his big prize? Unless he was figuring he'd try to make nice with Freeza and maybe work his way up, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of purpose behind picking a fight with one of the few remaining Saiyans. You'd think that when your planet explodes your job responsibilities don't have much weight.

I can understand showing up and hoping Goku and Gohan join the "team" but "if you don't join us, you die" doesn't seem to accomplish anything.
Last edited by TonyTheTiger on Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raditz

Post by Fox666 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:49 pm

Money?

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Re: Raditz

Post by Eire » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:56 pm

What other propositions do you have for him? It was the only thing that was left for him.
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Re: Raditz

Post by Fox666 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:58 pm

Saiyans always sold planets for money. Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta should have quite a wealth life, despite their barbarian behavior...

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Re: Raditz

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:08 pm

Eire wrote:What other propositions do you have for him? It was the only thing that was left for him.
When you can conquer planets single-handedly I think you have quite a few options, actually. What kind of lifestyle was Freeza giving them that they couldn't have found on their own? At least Nappa and Vegeta had a reason. They needed to get the dragon balls and nothing was going to stand in their way.
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Re: Raditz

Post by Eire » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:10 pm

You think that Frieza would allow such a concurrence to exist?
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Re: Raditz

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:16 pm

Well that brings up a huge issue I have with Freeza's motivation. Why let the last three known Saiyans live in the first place? Even with the "lulz I told them it was a heug meteor" they clearly have outlived their usefulness and letting them run around as loose ends is pretty pointless. They're weaker than many members of your own planet conquering team so they're not really doing you any favors AND the strongest of them has a reputation for being an insubordinate troublemaker.

If Freeza was OK with Raditz living at all he shouldn't have much of a problem with Raditz sitting on the throne of some backwater planet somewhere.
Last edited by TonyTheTiger on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raditz

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:21 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:Well that brings up a huge issue I have with Freeza's motivation. Why let the last three known Saiyans live in the first place? Even with the "lulz I told them it was a heug meteor" they clearly have outlived their usefulness and letting them run around as loose ends is pretty pointless. They're weaker than many members of your own planet conquering team so they're not really doing you any favors AND the strongest of them has a reputation for being a disloyal troublemaker.

If Freeza was OK with Raditz living at all he shouldn't have much of a problem with Raditz sitting on the throne of some backwater planet somewhere.
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Re: Raditz

Post by Eire » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:28 pm

I've always portrayed Frieza as a moody being. Letting Vegeta live was quite funny for him, especially when proud prince had to "kiss a hand that murdered his father". Vegeta was like a tiger on a leash that can be teased to feed master's vanity. he was a troublemaker, but not too dangerous. Humiliation of the young prince on the eyes of his servants, who remeberd who he were would be even more funny.
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Re: Raditz

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:29 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
To humiliate those who represent the last remnants of a fear he once had.
Ok, but if it was so humiliating then why did Raditz want to force Goku and Gohan into it? "Hey, bro, this is so humiliating. Our race is dead and this overlord is making us serve him. You gotta get a piece of this."

Vegeta kept doing what he was doing to get stronger and eventually find some way to overthrow the dictator, even if it meant serving the guy you wanted to kill for a while. That was the the means to an end. Nappa was just following Vegeta. But what was Raditz doing? It's almost like he didn't get the memo that things changed.

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Re: Raditz

Post by Eire » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:37 pm

You can get used to literally everything. Plus, Raditz doesn't seem to be a thoughtful person.
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Re: Raditz

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:38 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
To humiliate those who represent the last remnants of a fear he once had.
Ok, but if it was so humiliating then why did Raditz want to force Goku and Gohan into it? "Hey, bro, this is so humiliating. Our race is dead and this overlord is making us serve him. You gotta get a piece of this."

Vegeta kept doing what he was doing to get stronger and eventually find some way to overthrow the dictator, even if it meant serving the guy you wanted to kill for a while. That was the the means to an end. Nappa was just following Vegeta. But what was Raditz doing? It's almost like he didn't get the memo that things changed.
He likely still found it fun to go around committing genocide and the like. Raditz was also probably insulted by his brother's lack of bloodthirst. Saiyans aren't exactly tied down to blood relations.
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Re: Raditz

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:50 pm

ssgOverlord wrote:Well, I think the "first rate" line refers to his battle experience. With his power he could at least take over a bunch of lesser planets, but I suppose it wasn't much to test his strength if his power is what it is...
Yeah, he only said he was a "first-rate warrior", not a "first-rate Saiyan warrior". Like I said, he was probably being arrogant and saw himself as as brilliant fighter.
Cipher wrote:I think I'd like him a lot more if he wasn't Goku's blood brother. That just screams wasted potential to me, and seems like a weak plot hook.

There's no reason he couldn't just have been another low-class Saiyan who happened to discover another member of his race had been sent to Earth. It's just so strange that the brother angle is introduced and hardly touched upon again.
I think the idea was that it didn't matter that he was Goku's brother, because for all Goku and the others cared, he bore no relation to him. He was basically the opposite of Goku, and the end of the day, he is just a low-class Saiyan. And perhaps the reason Toriyama made Goku's brother was because he thought they'd be more impact (the double surprise of Goku being an alien and having a brother who's a murderer), plus the whole thing of Raditz ignoring the fact that they're brothers, not showing him mercy and his tricking of Goku by appealing to his kindness.

But Goku's brother being tossed aside doesn't really bother me, because it was mostly irrelevant by the time they started fighting and was partly drama that Goku's brother was nothing like him and actually an evil serial killer. And I don't think Toriyama knew what to do with him in the story anyway.
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Re: Raditz

Post by Herms » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:55 pm

JulieYBM wrote:He likely still found it fun to go around committing genocide and the like.
I think that's most likely the answer. From what Raditz tells Goku, wiping out the inhabitants of planets for fun and profit was basically the Saiyans' dream job, and he probably wouldn't have been satisfied just sitting on a throne somewhere. I guess he could have tried splitting off and starting his own planet-conquering business, but why bother? He was already doing exactly what he wanted to do as Freeza's underling, what difference would being in charge really make?
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Re: Raditz

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:25 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
TonyTheTiger wrote:Well that brings up a huge issue I have with Freeza's motivation. Why let the last three known Saiyans live in the first place? Even with the "lulz I told them it was a heug meteor" they clearly have outlived their usefulness and letting them run around as loose ends is pretty pointless. They're weaker than many members of your own planet conquering team so they're not really doing you any favors AND the strongest of them has a reputation for being a disloyal troublemaker.

If Freeza was OK with Raditz living at all he shouldn't have much of a problem with Raditz sitting on the throne of some backwater planet somewhere.
To humiliate those who represent the last remnants of a fear he once had.
Plus, he specifically picked a time to destroy the planet when Vegeta was not on it, so he thought he'd be of some worth. And Freeza wasn't scared of just one Super Saiyan, he was scared of a number of them becoming Super Saiyans and rising up to destroy him. He probably wasn't worried about three Saiyans (he didn't know about Goku until he overheard Vegeta & Nappa on their scouters).
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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