Dub Fans: What is wrong with the Sub Version?

[Innagadadavida]

Lastly, to mention Kai quickly, it's like, if a faithful redub for Z was going to happen with most of the filler cut out, why not do that for Dragon Ball and the rest of the movies/specials? All Kai's new cast does is make itself inconsistent with the rest of the franchise.

Couldn't you just chalk it up to "another version- another take on the story"?

[AgitoZ]

Just thought of some. Baba's and Babidi's voices. I simply can't stand them.

[ChampionofTime]

Post Deleted.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

Lastly, to mention Kai quickly, it's like, if a faithful redub for Z was going to happen with most of the filler cut out, why not do that for Dragon Ball and the rest of the movies/specials? All Kai's new cast does is make itself inconsistent with the rest of the franchise.

Couldn't you just chalk it up to "another version- another take on the story"?

I see what you're getting at. However, for the rest of the franchise to not recieve the Kai treatment is just wrong. People can go ahead and take it as another version, I just won't. I'm not gonna watch Kai's Freeza saga episodes when Young is still in the Bardock special.

[dbgtFO]

Just thought of some. Baba's and Babidi's voices. I simply can't stand them.

I don't remember Baba's voice, but I remember Babidi's voice and I completely agree!
Then again thanks to DBZ Budokai 2, I never got to hear his japanese voice before I heard his FUNi voice, so maybe, if that didn't happen, I might have preferred the JP one...

Any dub actually, it doesn't matter but I guess mainly the Funimation version as that is what people are more fammiliar with in my eyes.

I also understand this is an argument that stems from long ago but I guess I just got curious, I wasn't a fan in 2001 or whenever so I didn't see the reasons why people despite knowng the dub has an inacurate script or bad acting chose not to watch a supposedly better version.

The original DBZ got nothing on the danish version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BKdRC9xXgA
I mean I'm really happy for the original and Imma let them finish, but Gohan's danish voice is the best of ALL TIME!!

[jjgp1112]

Just thought of some. Baba's and Babidi's voices. I simply can't stand them.

Oh yeah, add Babidi's voice to the that post I made, too.

[Deimos]

I'd have to agree with MetalMadness. I respect the original, but it isn't DBZ to me. I look past Funi dub's flaws and enjoy it immensely. And now that Kai is out, I can enjoy a part of the series that the dub was at its weakest (Season 3).

I also prefer the Faulconer score. It isn't perfect as it never shuts up, but I love how every character and every transformation has their own unique theme. The Kikuchi score is good, but it gets much more repetitive as the series goes on while Faulconer gives a different feel for each saga. The Buu Saga, specifically has some awesome tracks. Granted, there are some repeated tracks (Vegeta's Hells Bells, Piccolo's theme, etc.). However, most are catchy and I enjoy them when they appear (I always enjoy some Hells Bells ) That's my opinion, anyway.

[Shnuki]

I like FUNimation's dub, but not because of nostalgia. It's because of the voices. When I was reading the manga, I was trying to imagine how voices of characters may sound like and most of them were similar to that of that dub (with few exceptions of course - Piccolo's voice is too deep, kid Gohan's voice sounded a little weird at first). So... It can't be nostalgia, because I'm not a fan of French or German dub (I watched them first), and I've seen these versions few times (French - 3 times, German - twice).

Despite some flaws of this dub, I still like it. Script is not that accurate, but at least I wasn't bored to death thanks to some added dialogs here and there (come on, Freeza saga is sometimes a one big slideshow!)


But the main question was what is wrong with the Japanese version. There's nothing really that wrong, I like it a lot more than French and German dubs, but there's one thing that I don't like about it: most of the characters (especially the villains) have generic voices. And I don't like voices of Goku, Gohan, Goten and Bardock when they're adults - Masako Nozawa's voice works pretty well when they're kids, but not adults. But what annoys me the most is that weird "kk-kkk-kkk" sound she makes. It's just awful.

EDIT: I really don't like Bruce Faulconer's music. Version with Kikuchi's score is the best.

[dbgtFO]

The JP version is endowed with this guy http://animenz.files.wordpress.com/2010 ... =500&h=359
If you don't know who that is, then this should help you out:
Some truths being told here...
Seriously you guys nothing comes close to that... NOTHING!!!! I'm only kidding you know!

[Travis Touchdown]

My personal beef with subtitles is simple. If I wanted to read Dragon Ball, I'd just read the manga. I want to watch Dragon Ball, but I find that I'm spending more time reading the constant subtitles moreso than watching the humor and action. I have no problem with the Japanese language, and, in fact, I'd love to learn it someday. But until then, I will gladly watch Dragon Ball in English and enjoy the dub actors.

[Zephyr]

In my case, when I was strictly a dub fan, my reasoning for hating the Japanese version ultimately boiled down to nostalgia. It didn't have the voices, lines, soundtrack, or atmosphere that I had grown up with, and come to know and love as what I saw DBZ to actually be for an entire decade.

As a fan of both versions, my only real gripe with the Subbed version thus far is as Inna brought up, the amount of dedicated attention you have to pay to the subtitles to understand what's going on. Yes I basically know the story by heart now, but having only seen the awful, inaccurate dub of the series in full, I don't know what the characters are actually saying, and to know this requires a lot of attention to be payed to the subtitles, which takes quite a bit away from the experience if you ask me.

Also, the Japanese voices can be annoying if you're not accustomed to hearing the language being spoken. While I used to not be able to bear them, I've grown to enjoy them.

To play the devil's advocate though, cheesy dialog and sub par voice acting (IE most of the dub) can also be quite annoying and detract from the experience of the show.

I think watching the first 7 or so episodes in Japanese after I got really stoned a couple of weeks ago turned me into a subbie. It opened my miiind maaaan.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

And beyond that, it has all of the usual problems I have with subbed anime like having the same token generic voice for every character type. Every big character like Nappa will have the same voice, every "badass" character like vegeta will have the same voice, etc.

Are you saying that dubbed anime doesn't have the same problem? Just look at all of shows starring Johnny Bosch or Vic Mignogna as the teen hero. The American pool of actors is significantly smaller than on the Japanese side, so you end up hearing the same voices in every single show.

And Goku's adult voice just doesn't sit well with me. A grown man doesn't sound like a 12 year old kid, regardless of his personality. You can get a very cheerful, energetic childlike voice that actually still sounds like a grown man.

It's just a cartoon, though. Why does the voice have to be entirely realistic? (And please, point me to the guy that talks like Chris Sabat's Vegeta.)

Subtitles. I hate reading subtitles. It's distracting, obtrusive, and requires my full attention. Which is not something I'm apt to lend to any one thing at any given moment. Call me ignorant, call me a barbarian, it's all in the name of entertainment.

Why does this excuse pop up so much? Do you guys always do your homework while watching TV? Do you also cook dinner while reading a book? Do you clean the dishes while playing a video game?

Just thought of some. Baba's and Babidi's voices. I simply can't stand them.

Like VegettoEX said in another topic, why is there so much hate for Babidi's voice? It's just Joji Yanami...

but there's one thing that I don't like about it: most of the characters (especially the villains) have generic voices.

That's odd, I've always though that the villains had the most unique voices. Shigeru Chiba as Pilaf/Raditz, Ryo Horikawa as Vegeta, Ryusei Nakao as Freeza, Norio Wakamoto as Cell, etc.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I find the lack of music quit annoying. Sure, Bruce Faulconer doesn't have enough silence but in my opinion the Japanese version has too much silence. It works well in some places but in other places it's just annoying, especially when you've spent 3/4 of your fandom watching the dub and you expect to hear music while Vegeta charges up his 'Final Flash'. I have nothing against the voices and the music itself, but I tend to normally watch the dub. The Japanese version has always been a novelty to me for some reason, except for Kai where I watch the Japanese weekly.
I'd also have to agree on the music getting weaker towards the 'Artificial Human' portion of the series.

[Deimos]

I find the lack of music quit annoying. Sure, Bruce Faulconer doesn't have enough silence but in my opinion the Japanese version has too much silence. It works well in some places but in other places it's just annoying, especially when you've spent 3/4 of your fandom watching the dub and you expect to hear music while Vegeta charges up his 'Final Flash'. I have nothing against the voices and the music itself, but I tend to normally watch the dub. The Japanese version has always been a novelty to me for some reason, except for Kai where I watch the Japanese weekly.
I'd also have to agree on the music getting weaker towards the 'Artificial Human' portion of the series.

I completely agree. The silence during dialogue is appreciated, but when it comes to epic techniques (Final Flash) or transformations (Goku's SSJ3 transformation) there is a little to no music to enhance or intensify the experience. When I watched these two scenes in Japanese, I was sorely disappointed.

[TheGreatness25]

I like the Japanese version a lot more than the dub. I find that the lack of music and whatnot works a lot better in the Japanese version than the dub with original Japanese music (I don't like that audio track at all). However, if there is a reason for me to watch the dub version, it's because I divide my attention and am texting or on the computer or doing something and I can't read everything on the screen, so for me it's just easier to slap on the dub version. Maybe that's what people don't like about it? The language barrier and the fact that it's not always comfortable reading it? Or maybe it's just for nostalgia purposes, like the dub being the version that people know and like and original or not, the Japanese is different from what they know and love, so that could be it.

[MetaMoss]

Honestly, I used to be a dubbie. Then I was curious about how the original Japanese sounded. So I watched through the middle of the Freeza saga subbed (on the Orange Bricks, mind you, but that doesn't matter). I like the original Japanese cast, and when I play Budokai Tenkaichi 3 I always put the Japanese cast on. It just feels right. I don't hate the FUNi dub, I over time have found its faults. While the original's music track might be repetitive, it sure beats the constant music of FUNi's. The Kai dub is much an improvement, and I still enjoy watching the Japanese cast of Kai subbed, as well.

[VegettoEX]

No real reason for the majority of us (read: fans of the original Japanese version of the franchise) to jump in and question each and every point a dub fan may make in here. Won't really accomplish much, unless you feel that some major point is missing and you somehow don't understand what it is they're saying.

Otherwise, it's just another generic "HEY I LIKE THIS! / YEAH, WELL, YOUR MOM!" thread that serves no real purpose...

[Perfect]

Honestly, I think the dub sounds fairly boring with the JPN OST. It seems with Johnson (Whom I believe is the best composer for Dragon Ball) and Faulconer, the voices are complimented better. It adds a certain feeling to the atmosphere and whatnot.
Flaws with the dub I see, of Z:
-You can tell the difference between moments when FUNi redubbed certain parts to when they first started dubbing (Seasons 1 & 2, parts of the Buu saga, I'm sure there's more).
-The music from the middle of the Freeza saga through the end of the series needs to be quiet more often, though in places the music is incredibly fitting.
-Everything about the orange brick's picture.
-Dialogue is often terrible, especially in Dragon Ball (General Blue).

There of course, are scenes I'd rather watch in the original audio, as well as the dub audio. Scenes I feel sound better in the dub:
-Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 for the second time (We saw him briefly turn SSJ2 in the end of the episode prior, this would be the second time).
-The end of Cell's self destruction (The music softly exits with high piano keys).
-Parts of Goku vs. Cell (There's a few moments when the music sounds beautiful, though others not so much).
-A lot of the Majin Buu music was fairly well done and matched the tone, such as the music played while everyone was waiting in the ship.
-When Goku finds out Cell is still alive (There is no music in the JPN version, it sounds boring, Kaio-sama's theme playing lightly in the background seemingly adds to that moment of conflict).

As for the JPN soundtrack:
-All of the Dead Zone movie.
-All of the World's Strongest movie.
-Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 for the first time (The music is symbolic in showing what Gohan is feeling on the inside, the opposite of what the dub here does, completely).
-Trunks killing Freeza for the first time, Battle Point Unlimited is the theme that plays here (It's the best song in the entire JPN score in my opinion, it makes this scene the best in the entire series to me, out of any language).

Overall it's a mixed bag. If you want superb voice acting, go for the JPN version. If you want some upbeat instrumental rock, go for the dub. If you want a version where the JPN cast is still hot (In essence, not in their prime) and a version where 90% of the English cast is fantastic, watch Kai. The music isn't boring nor is it playing constantly. Though from what I can tell, certain songs tend to repeat too much. I love Dragon Ball, so I'll be happy to watch/read any of version of the series.

[TonyTheTiger]

So basically dub fans what is wrong with the subbed version for you and why don’t you like it or choose to watch it?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why does the sub/dub thing have to be mutually exclusive? I don't think enjoying one version requires disliking another.

I can say that I'm not a fan of the crappy audio fidelity of the Japanese version. It's not even because it's mono. Mono audio can sound fine if the fidelity is there. But Dragon Ball is pretty piss poor even when compared to it's 80s/90s contemporaries. Toei really dropped the ball big time. So from that angle I can say that there is something "wrong" with the Japanese version that isn't a problem with the English dub.

But, as somebody who was essentially introduced to both the Japanese version and the dub (Ocean) at nearly the same time in the mid-90s give or take a year and continued to watch both since, I think I have an appreciation for them on equal terms. So that could explain a lot about my outlook.

That being said, it's hard to say what's "wrong" with the Japanese version since it was the foundation of everything else. I will say that I'm not as vehemently opposed to dialogue changes in the dub as many here are, at least when they're honestly well written. Goku's speech to Vegeta right before fusing comes to mind. The changed dialogue has a lot more emotion behind it than the wholly generic "we need more power" stuff in the original. But I can't say that the original dialogue is "bad" per se. It's just that I think FUNi improved on what was already there. Of course FUNi sometimes completely screws up scenes, too, like Gohan's stupid inner monologue during Cell. So I take it on a case by case basis, of course.

[Kakarotto]

I am a slow reader .