Dragonball Vs. Non Dragonball

[Shoryuken]

Monkey D. Luffy Post Timeskip Vs. Son Goku.

NOW, with Luffy's ability to use his "Drive" Powers, how many forms would Son have to go through before he begins to best Luffy easily?

Or imagine Luffy with his Drive powers + if He Got the Nightmare Luffy powerup again?

But I think we all know one form of Luffys that could beat Son. Afro Luffy. You can't beat the Brothersoul.

Luffy would probably be at match for DB Goku, but Z Goku is just too much. A single charged kamehameha should be enough to evaporate Luffy. Luffy may be fast in Gear 2, but Goku is supersonic and has the shunkanido.
There is also no attack in Luffy's arsenal that will event dent Goku.

Are you talking pre-timeskip or post-timeskip Luffy?

Because I'm not talking about his Gears, I'm talking about his "Drive" Powers (Haki in jp. Lit. "Ambition")
They let him predict his opponents moves and do much more advanced moves than before. Other characters using Drive have even been able to harm Logia users, and they're made of intangible elements.

Haki will do squat to Goku who is hundreds of times faster than Luffy when it comes to his combat speed.

Now for everybody's favorite...Superboy Prime.

Superboy Prime is supposed to be the equivalent of Silverage Superman, so I'll quantify this feat mathematically:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29 ... _super.jpg

I will assume that he is simply pulling the mass of all the planets in the solar system and accelerating it at 1G.

In D20, I got 401 strength using logarithmic analysis. This is 3.4E+23 times the strength of a normal human.

In otherwords, Superboy Prime's power level is 1,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

No way that Superboy Prime is as strong as Silver-age Superman.

[goku the krump dancer]

Would the Phantom Hands(correct me if I'm wrong with the name) from Elfen Lied have any effect on Goku?

[astrallite]

In otherwords, Superboy Prime's power level is 1,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

No way that Superboy Prime is as strong as Silver-age Superman.

Really. So when DC created "Prime," which by definition of the word means "the best you've ever been", collapsed all the universes together and he stood tall as the strongest superman, you mean to say, you know better than DC does about who the best superman is.

Since Prime basically beat the entire DC-multiverse single-handedly, by definition he's stronger than Silverage Superman. Since SA Superman he's not on any of the panels, that means Prime already defeated him. That is, if Silverage Superman is actually a hero and decided to fight for good against Prime. Otherwise, he's not much of a Superman, is he?

[Bussani]

Earth Prime was named as such because it's supposed to be our Earth--the Earth where DC comics exist. But yeah, Superboy Prime is supposed to be Silver Age Superman's equal, which makes sense since he's technically from the Silver Age itself.

I will assume that he is simply pulling the mass of all the planets in the solar system and accelerating it at 1G.

In D20, I got 470 strength using logarithmic analysis. This is 5E+27 times the strength of a normal human.

In otherwords, Superboy Prime's power level is 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

I'm still curious about how you get to these results. How did you work out that he must have a strength of 470 in D20? Can you show your work?

[astrallite]

I'm still curious about how you get to these results. How did you work out that he must have a strength of 470 in D20? Can you show your work?

I've got 2.955E+26=(1.99*10^30)*2.2/(0.135)*2000 for the mass of the planets in the solar system in short tons.

Then 87.9336 [number of times that STR is doubled] = log (2.955E+26,2)

Then 470.66 = 87.9336*5 [STR modifier; +5 is doubling of STR] + 31 [STR to lift 1 ton in D20]. (So this is the amount of force needed for 1G).

470.66 = Log(5.5E+27,2)*5+31, where 5.5E+27 is the how many times stronger 470.66 is compared to the average human (STR 10)

5E+27*5 (where 5 is the power level of a human in DBZ PLs)= 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 25 thousand trillion trillion.

Of course this is using the latest fad of "telekinetics" to describe Kryptonian powers, otherwise in real life you would be fighting against rotational spin (assuming a large iron mass) among other things.

[Bussani]

Ah, I see. I figured you must have used the D20 system as a starting point, but I don't know it myself, so I wanted to see.

I tried doing it a different way just for fun. First I added up the masses of the classical 9 planets in our solar system (because I'm stuck in the past!), which gets a slightly different result to what you have (2.94133E+24 short tons). I then used F=MA to work out that it would take 2.61674E+28 newtons of force to accelerate that much mass at 1g. Guessing that an average man can exert something like 392 newtons of pulling/lifting force (which may be off), that'd make Silver Age Superman 6.67534E+25 times stronger than an average man, yielding a battle power of around 333,767,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Slightly different result, but yeah.

Of course, I think it's pretty silly to apply any of this to comic books and expect any sense to be made. Not to mention the fact that despite being able to produce a blast that can level a planet, the most we've ever seen Goku lift is 40 tons*, which implies to me that lifting/pulling strength doesn't increase linearly with battle power (at least not after a certain point). This leads me to conclude that almost any version of Superman has most Dragon Ball characters beat when it comes to raw physical strength...but I already thought that 20 pages ago.

*Although he might have pushed more than that when he moved that big boulder during Kame'sennin's training.

[Enchanted Leg]

Yami Yugi challenges Goku to a Game of Darkness.

[Enchanted Leg]

sorry DP

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Yami Yugi challenges Goku to a Game of Darkness.

Yugi:"I summon Obelisk The Tormentor, Slifer The Sky Dragon, and The Winged Dragon of R--"
"Goku throws a Ki blast"

[astrallite]

Of course, I think it's pretty silly to apply any of this to comic books and expect any sense to be made. Not to mention the fact that despite being able to produce a blast that can level a planet, the most we've ever seen Goku lift is 40 tons*, which implies to me that lifting/pulling strength doesn't increase linearly with battle power (at least not after a certain point). This leads me to conclude that almost any version of Superman has most Dragon Ball characters beat when it comes to raw physical strength...but I already thought that 20 pages ago.

*Although he might have pushed more than that when he moved that big boulder during Kame'sennin's training.

The biggest weakness of the Z-fighters is the inability to survive in space. The kind of ability to project explosions is only useful if BFR (battlefield removal) is not a concern. The Z-fighters have to keep limiting the size of their blasts, which really means ultimately they end up fighting physically, because the actual power of the ki blasts are so suppressed.

If they could survive in space, I think the Goku would do pretty well in DCU/Marvel as a glass cannon, if he wanted to "power game" in RPG terms, such that he maximizes his combat potential, using his instant transmission ability. He'd have to fashion himself into the equivalent of an AOE Mage against tanks like Doomsday, The Fury, etc.

Of course knowing Goku, he would just duke it out in a fist fight.

Oh yeah, and the 9 classical planets

Pluto got owned after they discovered Eris in 2005, which is larger than Pluto. They will keep discovering larger objects as people keep looking. Beforehand, far too much time was spent staring at the solar plane where it was expected all of the planets would orbit on a flat plane in relation to the sun.

[Bussani]

The biggest weakness of the Z-fighters is the inability to survive in space. The kind of ability to project explosions is only useful if BFR (battlefield removal) is not a concern. The Z-fighters have to keep limiting the size of their blasts, which really means ultimately they end up fighting physically, because the actual power of the ki blasts are so suppressed.

If they could survive in space, I think the Goku would do pretty well in DCU/Marvel as a glass cannon, if he wanted to "power game" in RPG terms, such that he maximizes his combat potential, using his instant transmission ability. He'd have to fashion himself into the equivalent of an AOE Mage against tanks like Doomsday, The Fury, etc.

Of course knowing Goku, he would just duke it out in a fist fight.

I think you're right about that. In terms of raw force, Goku's power to blow the planet up several times over is up there with the power to move a planet--which is obvious when you think about it, because blowing a planet to pieces is all about accelerating all of the chunks to the right escape velocity. The way they use this power is the biggest difference. Of course, Goku and Vegeta have gotten away with firing planet-busting attacks by aiming them away from the planet (Final Flash, Warp Kamehameha).

Oh yeah, and the 9 classical planets

Pluto got owned after they discovered larger orbital masses in the solar system in the last decade.

Yeah... Like I said, I'm stuck in the past. I did do an alternative where I just multiplied Earth's mass by 10, since that's roughly how many planets I can make out in the picture, and I figured that if they were inhabited worlds they were probably somewhat Earth-like, but that resulted in less total mass than the 9 classical planets.

[dbgtFO]

Dragonball is like most other comics severely inconsistent, when it comes to showings of speed & strength feats.
This is most likely because it ran for over 10 years and you can't expect the author to remember all the details of what they were capable of 10 years ago.
If we just discuss speed..
Krillin and Kamesennin at the 21st TB were so fast, that they had an entire fight scene transpiring in 1 second, which the audience wasn't able to see.
At the 22nd TB Goku was so fast that he became invisible to regular earthlings and even Kamesennin, who was able to see and catch bullets being fired at him.
And to top it all off, Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd TB were so fast, that not even effing GOD could see their movements and this is GOD we are talking about, the guy who is way beyond the Goku from 3 years ago.

By using powerscaling we know that the characters should have even more incredible speeds by the Buu arc and that Goten and Trunks are way beyond Goku and Piccolo from the 23rd TB, yet oddly enough people were able follow the fight, when such a thing should have been impossible!

Another example of DB feats being inconsistent is this..

Chapter: 85, P12.7
Context: before Tao Pai Pai takes off for the Karin Holy Land
Tao Pai Pai: “It’s 2,300 kilometers northeast, huh?...Well the, I’ll be back in about 30 minutes.”
Note: So in other words, Tao Pai Pai says he can throw a pillar 2,300 kilometers, jumps on it and ride it all the way there, beats Goku, then come all the way back in about 30 minutes.

Tao Pai Pai is able to move his body at over 9000!!!! km/h(actually over 9200).
Yet Buu arc Gohan..

Chapter: 422 (DBZ 228), P3.4-5
Context: talking about Gohan’s commute from home to school
Erasa: “Eh! Did you say East 439?! You’ve got to be kidding. Isn’t that 1,000 kilometers from here!? [ ] How the heck do you get here? Even a jet flyer would take 5 hours to cover that distance!”
Note: Gohan later says he can fly this distance in about 20 minutes

Flies at 3000 km/h, which is less than 1/3 of Tao Pai Pai's speed
...so yeah..!

[caejones]

TaoPaipai throwing the pillar is a problem in itself, since it's already a greater show of force than Goku's lifting forty tons. At this point, I think we must conclude that TaoPaipai is a wizard. -_-

[rereboy]

TaoPaipai throwing the pillar is a problem in itself, since it's already a greater show of force than Goku's lifting forty tons. At this point, I think we must conclude that TaoPaipai is a wizard. -_-

Taopaipai`s awesomeness warped the rules of DB universe.

[Rocketman]

the 9 classical planets.

The classical planets were the Sun, Mercury, Venus, the Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

[dbgtFO]

TaoPaipai throwing the pillar is a problem in itself, since it's already a greater show of force than Goku's lifting forty tons. At this point, I think we must conclude that TaoPaipai is a wizard. -_-

Lol really? How come?

[astrallite]

9,200kph is only about 1.6 miles/second.

Modern anti-tank cannons can approach a muzzle velocity of 2 miles/second. I've never heard of a high speed artillery round getting farther than 40 miles. Even if air resistance wasn't an issue, the curvature of the Earth would eventually become a problem.

Taopai might actually be a wizard after all

[lonewolf]

Dragonball is like most other comics severely inconsistent, when it comes to showings of speed & strength feats.
This is most likely because it ran for over 10 years and you can't expect the author to remember all the details of what they were capable of 10 years ago.
If we just discuss speed..
Krillin and Kamesennin at the 21st TB were so fast, that they had an entire fight scene transpiring in 1 second, which the audience wasn't able to see.
At the 22nd TB Goku was so fast that he became invisible to regular earthlings and even Kamesennin, who was able to see and catch bullets being fired at him.
And to top it all off, Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd TB were so fast, that not even effing GOD could see their movements and this is GOD we are talking about, the guy who is way beyond the Goku from 3 years ago.

By using powerscaling we know that the characters should have even more incredible speeds by the Buu arc and that Goten and Trunks are way beyond Goku and Piccolo from the 23rd TB, yet oddly enough people were able follow the fight, when such a thing should have been impossible!

Another example of DB feats being inconsistent is this..

Chapter: 85, P12.7
Context: before Tao Pai Pai takes off for the Karin Holy Land
Tao Pai Pai: “It’s 2,300 kilometers northeast, huh?...Well the, I’ll be back in about 30 minutes.”
Note: So in other words, Tao Pai Pai says he can throw a pillar 2,300 kilometers, jumps on it and ride it all the way there, beats Goku, then come all the way back in about 30 minutes.

Tao Pai Pai is able to move his body at over 9000!!!! km/h(actually over 9200).
Yet Buu arc Gohan..

Chapter: 422 (DBZ 228), P3.4-5
Context: talking about Gohan’s commute from home to school
Erasa: “Eh! Did you say East 439?! You’ve got to be kidding. Isn’t that 1,000 kilometers from here!? [ ] How the heck do you get here? Even a jet flyer would take 5 hours to cover that distance!”
Note: Gohan later says he can fly this distance in about 20 minutes

Flies at 3000 km/h, which is less than 1/3 of Tao Pai Pai's speed
...so yeah..!

2300km per 30 minutes = 1.28km per sec

1000km per 20 minutes = 830 m per sec


It's only 65% of Mercenary Tao's speed not 1/3. Gohan was going home or school, don't expect him to use full power speed. Nobody is in danger for him to hurry up and use full power speed.

Goku's 1,000,000 km per 2 days = 5.8km per sec
Goku made it in 1 day = 11.6 km per sec

[Perfect]

I can see it from two perspectives.
1.) Tao is really skilled. He moved his shoe to stop a bullet as it barley came for him. I doubt Goku would be able to pull that off, maybe he'd sense something coming and grab it or it'd just hit him and do nothing. So it's probably a Tao trick or something.

2.) Gohan wasn't going anywhere near as fast as he could go.

I'm betting on option 2.

[lonewolf]

Gohan's speed of going home or going to school is non-sense and shouldn't be compared when Goku traveled the snake way in one day or Tao traveled to Karin's land. I'm sure Gohan could get faster if he needs too.