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Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by jackjack » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:18 pm

dbgtFO wrote:Answer the question without asking me a question.
jackjack wrote: I think it's safe to consider Super Saiyan Gotenks a SSJ3 level fighter, because there are more than enough hints (ranging from Goku being assured they're going to win if they do it right, all the way to Piccolo's comment that they only need to train to fight a much stronger version of Boo) to conclude Gotenks >/= fat Boo, so whatever the daizenshuu implies about Gotenks (</= Vegeta) falls apart if you ask me.
dbgtFO wrote:Answer:
All Potara Earrings are broken.
The Dragon Balls/dance fusion?

Why would Vegeta think "it might really mean the end of the world" when they had just defeated the guy, anyway? (He was probably saying that so he had more of a reason to kill fatso.)
dbgtFO wrote:Nothing saying that it would work.
It wouldn't make sense if Goku were thinking of something that wouldn't work, considering the fact that he expressed surprise at Vegeta's GD idea because he didn't think it would work.
dbgtFO wrote:Goku didn't say he wanted them to come. He just said, that was Vegeta's plan.
Which suggests it would work, doesn't it? Why would Goku think Vegeta was planning on something that wouldn't work?

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by MasterVampire » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:54 am

No way kid buu is the strongest.


Remember when SSj3 Goku was fighting GotenksBuu while Gohan was looking for the earring he dropped?
Goku was getting thrashed without landing any hits.

But when SSj3 Goku was fighting kid buu they seemed even and Goku even said he was stronger at the start when he was fresh

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Ussj Future Trunks » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:38 am

Goku: “Oh, I know! You’ll bring Gohan and Gotenks back to life so they can fight.”
Goku isn't a child murderer and he's seen both these guys fight off Super Buu. Why would he ask for Gotenks to come if Kid Buu was stronger than him? Vegeta just wanted the earthlings to save themselves. Nothing says Kid Buu would beat Gotenks.
Simian upstart...none surpass me. No one even comes close! BURN THIS INTO YOUR MIND! I am emperor of the universe. The likes of you are only fit to grovel at my feet. Or better still...to be crushed...LIKE AN INSECT AT THE WHIM OF YOUR MASTER!

- Freeza, DBZ Kai.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:53 am

jackjack wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Answer the question without asking me a question.
jackjack wrote: I think it's safe to consider Super Saiyan Gotenks a SSJ3 level fighter, because there are more than enough hints (ranging from Goku being assured they're going to win if they do it right, all the way to Piccolo's comment that they only need to train to fight a much stronger version of Boo) to conclude Gotenks >/= fat Boo, so whatever the daizenshuu implies about Gotenks (</= Vegeta) falls apart if you ask me.
Thank you.
jackjack wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Answer:
All Potara Earrings are broken.
The Dragon Balls/dance fusion?
Vegeta doesn't want to do dance fusion, shown clearly inside Super Boo and what do you mean with the Dragonballs?
jackjack wrote:Why would Vegeta think "it might really mean the end of the world" when they had just defeated the guy, anyway? (He was probably saying that so he had more of a reason to kill fatso.)
That's the explanation I expected from the members here and yes that's also the most logical one.
jackjack wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Nothing saying that it would work.
It wouldn't make sense if Goku were thinking of something that wouldn't work, considering the fact that he expressed surprise at Vegeta's GD idea because he didn't think it would work.
It also doesn't make sense that Goku thought Krillin and Kame-sennin would be of any help(grabbing his tail or whatever) against Raditz, when they couldn't even keep up with a much weaker opponent.

Either way you bring up a good point, since I don't think Goku counted so much on teamwork later on in the series, which would mean my example doesn't apply to Boo Arc Goku.
jackjack wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Goku didn't say he wanted them to come. He just said, that was Vegeta's plan.
Which suggests it would work, doesn't it? Why would Goku think Vegeta was planning on something that wouldn't work?
I see your point and unfortunately for me, I don't have anything to combat it with.
Rocketman wrote:The end of the Kid Buu fight is completely contrived.

-retarded shonen bullshit funneled through ~GOKU~
I totally agree. I just think it's interesting to bring up all these points, since we are dealing with an in universe matter and not the Author's intentions.

Another quote I think is interesting was uttered before(and was therefore contradicted) Goku's infamous "no match for Super Boo" line:
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…
Which doesn't seem to imply Goku < Gohan, rather the opposite or what do any of you think?
However as I already stated, it was contradicted by the line about Super being stronger than him.

From the quote I posted a page back:
Goku wrote:[...]Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.
If Gohan & Gotenks are way stronger than Pure Boo, then Goku's completely disregarding their power for no apparent reason, when he previously thought Vegeta would bring Gohan & Gotenks to the battlefield.

Of course Toriyama was making Goku the hero again, but when you see such statements, I can honestly not see anything wrong with considering Gohan < Goku, since it's afterall seen from an in universe perspective.

And that's my final word on the matter.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by p123 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:04 am

I think Goku vs Kid Buu is all for show... I have SSJ3 Gotenks 50x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Buff Buu 50x stronger than Kid Buu...

It does appear that Goku is the savior again, and almost disregard Gotenks/Gohan, but I think it's all a mere plot device...

It's hard to convincingly end the saga in dramatic fashion if you are watching two incredibly weak powers duel it out in comparison...


What is Kid Buu returned? Gohan would stomp him, Goku surely would not be needed, but what can you do it's a story...


Realistically as well, KibitoShin is uberly powerful as well...


Kibito is somewhere around Base Gohan...
Kaioshin is somewhere around SSJ Gohan...


The kids strength?

Well it's implied Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks Pre right?

So logically,


Base Kids Post > SSJ Kids Pre right?

Then we have...

Piccolo > Base Kids Post > SSJ Kids Pre

not to mention the base saiyans implication...


Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan >> Piccolo >> Base Kids Post > SSJ Kids Pre


And all of a sudden, we have KibitoShin being uberly powerful in comparison to Base Gotenks who is implied to be >> Majin Vegeta...


Real tricky mess, but again another plot device regarding Buu vs Goku IMO... KibitoShin thinks he is powerful enough to help Goku, which would suggest he is perhaps somewhere around Goku's level now... Elder only says that he is nothing to Buutenks, since Goku is fodder to Buutenks now as well... It could be very well likely that KibitoShin is nearly SSJ3 tier, or at least getting close to it, even though if he was, he should have been fighting against Kid Buu... But like I said, the Vegeta/Goku ending seemed very dramatic, and personally I think it all went down very weird, and that many plot devices occured to have Goku vs Kid be the end all be all...

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by jackjack » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:16 am

dbgtFO wrote:Vegeta doesn't want to do dance fusion
Which is why his "the end of the world" comment doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He said he would rather die than fuse with Goku to fight Boohan, yet he still did it for the sake of others. I just don't buy rebirth of kid Boo = the end of the world for a second. Really, this is the same Vegeta who thought Goku was powerful enough to defeat Boo with SSJ3 alone, and when that didn't work out as planned, they still managed to pull off a victory. Now all of a sudden this time for sure will be the end of everything, presumably with way more help than last time (since Gohan and co. have been revived) if they were to face Boo again?
dbgtFO wrote:That's the explanation I expected from the members here and yes that's also the most logical one.
Or maybe Vegeta was talking about Boo in general, and with his absorption he would always be a major threat regardless of his opponent's strength.
dbgtFO wrote:It also doesn't make sense that Goku thought Krillin and Kame-sennin would be of any help(grabbing his tail or whatever) against Raditz, when they couldn't even keep up with a much weaker opponent.
They are only good for somehow helping Goku grab his tail; I thought this was stated ("I can't [grab his tail] by myself" comes to mind?).
dbgtFO wrote:Either way you bring up a good point, since I don't think Goku counted so much on teamwork later on in the series, which would mean my example doesn't apply to Boo Arc Goku.
Well, teamwork, throughout the entire series, has been suggested to work when the power difference isn't far apart (I can surely provide at least one example of that for every arc.)
dbgtFO wrote:I see your point
Yeah, the thing here is the context.
(Not the exact quotes, but you should get the idea.)

Oh I get it...You are thinking of bringing Gohan and co. here to fight...
Wrong answer...Get ready for the Genki Dama...
What...Genki Dama you say? Are you nuts...That won't work...
dbgtFO wrote:Which doesn't seem to imply Goku < Gohan, rather the opposite or what do any of you think?
Again, pay attention to the context: it'd always been all about using fusion to win before that comment was made.

"This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…(He won't need to merge with me anymore)”
dbgtFO wrote:However as I already stated, it was contradicted by the line about Super being stronger than him.
I honestly don't see a problem with that comment.
dbgtFO wrote:If Gohan & Gotenks are way stronger than Pure Boo, then Goku's completely disregarding their power for no apparent reason, when he previously thought Vegeta would bring Gohan & Gotenks to the battlefield.
Exactly, that does seem to be the case (he talked as if they were still dead or something), and every post-victory comment made would make a lot more sense if you ask me.
dbgtFO wrote:Of course Toriyama was making Goku the hero again, but when you see such statements, I can honestly not see anything wrong with considering Gohan < Goku, since it's afterall seen from an in universe perspective.
There are a lot of things wrong with it, man; just think about how many statements would be contradicted if that were true.

As far as I can see, the only statement that implies Goku > Gohan is this one: "This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in." But even that statement is contradicted by his "bring them here to fight" statement earlier.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:52 am

jackjack wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Vegeta doesn't want to do dance fusion
Which is why his "the end of the world" comment doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He said he would rather die than fuse with Goku to fight Boohan, yet he still did it for the sake of others. I just don't buy rebirth of kid Boo = the end of the world for a second. Really, this is the same Vegeta who thought Goku was powerful enough to defeat Boo with SSJ3 alone, and when that didn't work out as planned, they still managed to pull off a victory. Now all of a sudden this time for sure will be the end of everything, presumably with way more help than last time (since Gohan and co. have been revived) if they were to face Boo again?
Kid Boo was the most dangerous Boo of all. He had no reason and blew up the planet in an instant. Boo's an unpredictable fucker, and from simply eating himself, he grew much more powerful. Vegeta has a right to be scared.

Btw, I think that Super Boo is stronger than Kid Boo.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Fox666 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:00 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:Kid Boo was the most dangerous Boo of all. He had no reason and blew up the planet in an instant. Boo's an unpredictable fucker, and from simply eating himself, he grew much more powerful. Vegeta has a right to be scared.
That's enough. :lol:



Now, changing the topic subject... is Mr. Boo really weaker than Super Boo?

I know the narrator says "the majority of the power went to the evil one…" but Boo power increased after absorbing himself. And if we assume that Kid Boo was around SSJ3 Goku, he beating the Fat Buu makes sense...

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by jackjack » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:07 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:Vegeta has a right to be scared.
Sure, but he's more than just scared, he says this time for sure will be the end of the world -.-

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:13 am

jackjack wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Vegeta has a right to be scared.
Sure, but he's more than just scared, he says this time for sure will be the end of the world.
After it almost was the end of the world, who's not to say Boo produces another Boo that's even stronger than the last one and blows up the planet from the word "go"? As I said, Boo's unpredictable and they only just scraped by a win. Yes, you could say that they could use Gohan, Gotenks or Gogeta, but see what Rocketman said about their options against Kid Boo. They didn't even take the easier option of having Gohan, Gotenks and Gogeta blast Kid Boo, and favoured some plot-induced-stupidity bullshit about letting the Earthlings save themselves to create a super-dramatic Genki-Dama.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by jackjack » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:24 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:They didn't even take the easier option of having Gohan, Gotenks and Gogeta blast Kid Boo.
Here's the problem, I was replying to a guy who pointed out all the statements that would help support Goku > Gohan, so you can't really say "since Gohan > Goku, then blah blah blah..."

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:35 am

jackjack wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:They didn't even take the easier option of having Gohan, Gotenks and Gogeta blast Kid Boo.
Here's the problem, I was replying to a guy who pointed out all the statements that would help support Goku > Gohan, so you can't really say "since Gohan > Goku, then blah blah blah..."
Well, I think "Goku > Gohan" is bullshit, since everything in the story and a number of statements go against it, so...
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Rory » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:48 am

Man, when you think about it, Pure Boo isn't all that threatening of a final villain, is he...?

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 am

Rory wrote:Man, when you think about it, Pure Boo isn't all that threatening of a final villain, is he...?
Well, Kaioshin said that Kid Boo was the most dangerous Boo of all, because he was evil incarnate and had no reason. Take that as you will.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Vagrant » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:21 am

To be honest, I used to think it was absolutely ridiculous to think that Pure Boo could be stronger than Shin Boo, but persuasive arguments have been made using source material that seems to indicate a pretty good intent for Pure Boo to be stronger than Shin Boo. Here's some of the reasons why. Note that a lot of this is actually arguing that Goku could be stronger than Gohan, but the two arguments are pretty tightly tied together anyway:
From Daizenshuu 2:
Defeat Boo!
Goku fought with the revived Boo. Goku tried to have the next generation resolve this problem, but in the end he was the one who defeated Boo, the strongest in the universe, after being resurrected by receiving the life of the Dai-Kaioshin. Thereupon, he meets with Boo's reincarnation, Oob. In order to raise Oob, who didn't know how to fight, he flew off.
So it’s flat out stated that the Boo that Goku defeated at the time of his defeat was the strongest in the universe. Gohan was there for Boo’s defeat; he even contributed to it. And as you'll recall, his contribution, which should have been all the power he could muster, was totally insufficient.

You’ll also recall that (based off of translation from the original Japanese manga) Goku initially thought that Vegeta planned on having Gohan AND Gotenks AND others come and help fight Boo.

Now… what would be the point of having Gotenks come if Gohan could handle it alone easily, or vice-versa?

For that matter, how desperate would they have to be to bring the fodder along too??
That just shows that the Pure Boo is nothing to snort over.

And what about Vegeta’s speech? He flat out said that Goku is the only one who can fight Boo (he himself is dead and fighting against Boo, if not at the moment, so there’s no reason that other dead people would not be able to fight Boo too.), not that Gohan can do it too. He also calls Goku number 1. If he’s not actually the number 1, what the hell is that whole speech about exactly? It’s basically just a “Goku kicks ass + Vegeta character development” speech.
Vegeta’s also not the type to arbitrarily say somebody is strongest when he knows damn well they aren’t. He acknowledges people’s powers and their placements.

Anyway, back to Daizenshuu 2, it’s stated in the Final Battles section that “even a Full Power Goku can’t defeat him [The Pure Majin Boo]”. So Goku is clearly not strong enough to defeat Boo himself.
It’s also made clear in the manga that Boo was playing with Goku, not taking him seriously; so any claims that Goku was fighting Boo “evenly” are somewhat misinformed.

It also states that when Goku is about to finish Boo (when he wishes to fight him again) that:
Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest.
So there it’s established that Goku and Pure Boo at that time are the 2 strongest, and it’s otherwise established that Boo is stronger than Goku.

Nonetheless, Goku being second strongest still establishes him as stronger than Gohan or Gotenks.

Another instance where this is pointed out is after Boo is beaten and Vegeta is about to kill the Good Boo.

Vegeta asks who will stop Boo if he goes mad again; implying that he’s stronger than anybody, and clearly to strong for Gohan to stop if that question has to be asked.

Then when Goku answers, he says that he’ll be training so that he won’t lose; implying that he was weaker than Boo was at the time.

Even 10 years later though, where Goku is stronger than Gohan, he still thinks there’s a chance that he could lose to Uub’s Full hidden power, which should be that of Majin Boo.

Now, to counter the common arguments, logically, how much stronger could Shin Boo possibly be? Given that it’s established that SSJ Gohan was stronger than any of the Kaioshin (by virtue of being able to pull out the Z-Sword), even Buff Boo, who is significantly stronger than Shin Boo, couldn’t even have a gap between him and the original Boo as great Gohan’s SSJ power.

That’s even assuming that South Kaioshin made Boo stronger, which is never stated to be the case. Given the lack of a plural form in Japanese, it could be that absorbing any of the Kaioshin made Boo weaker.

Either way, considering that Fat Boo is weaker than the Original Boo, the combination of Dai Kaioshin and South Kaioshin was detrimental to Boo’s power. Therefore it makes sense that removing both of them (which is what removing the Good Boo from Shin Boo’s body did) would make Boo stronger.

In that very scene, Kaioshin states that the heart that was making him weaker (when the form he was just in was Shin Boo) had returned to normal. That seems pretty clearly to be a statement that Boo just got stronger than what he just was.

Speaking of removing Boo from Boo…

There are plenty of explanations why Goku seemed to show fear for Shin Boo.

1) Goku’s personality had been completely off the entire Boo saga, he even tried to get others to fight his own battles for him. I’ve done a more detailed analysis on this before, if you’re interested.

2) Goku’s sensing was thrown off by being tiny.

3) Goku didn’t want to upset Vegeta. This explanation holds more credence than you might think. Vegeta had already expressed his loathing for Goku’s ascension, and Goku had previously gone as far as risk death in a fight with Vegeta to avoid showing it to him or letting him know about it. Goku would never show Vegeta the form unless Vegeta approved of it first (and only used it in front of him AFTER Vegeta had specifically asked to see it). This is also shown by how Goku only transformed into a SSJ when confronted by Shin Boo, rather than a SSJ3, which he easily could have done.

The fact of the matter is that Goku should always want to fight with strong opponents, both by 10 years of that being his character, and by Akira Toriyama’s statement on his character and greatest wish. And even if Goku wasn’t particularly keen on losing at that point, he still never displayed cowardice and fear like that.

There were too many things off for there NOT to have been a difference. And who knows; Goku’s change in personality may have affected his power by means of Shouki and Yuuki? This is actually a very important point, as it's quite clear that for the majority of the Boo arc Goku is not acting like his normal self. He's passing on fights even when he could win them, he's acting oddly out of character. This could easily justify a loss of shouki (right mind/true character) and as such a loss of power. Yuuki (courage) is also an aspect of his power that could have been greatly diminished by his fear of fighting Shin Boo. Now, by the time that Pure Boo emerges Goku is back to his normal self, he just wants to fight a strong opponent and have a good time doing it. Back to his regular state of mind, it's possible Goku's shouki and yuuki returned to their full extent, pushing his power beyond that of Gohan.

I’ll just end this on a statement made in an interview with Akira Toriyama himself in Daizenshuu 2, after the series was over.
Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: I think it's Goku. The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!
And there you have it. Goku is the strongest. And if he's stronger than Gohan and can fight almost equally with Pure Boo, then Pure Boo must by extension be stronger than Shin Boo.
It's a convincing enough argument that I'm actually pretty much borderline now between Shin Boo and Pure Boo. If I were to go entirely from manga and ignore all supplementary material then I would say Shin Boo without hesitation, but there's enough backing material to indicate that Pure Boo being stronger could well have been the intent and I actually now lean more towards Pure Boo being the strongest, as much as I hate that because I still think Gohan should be stronger than Goku and this pretty much prevents Gohan > Goku from ever being the case.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:36 am

You know, I could make a big counter-argument about how Vegeta was just admitting that Goku was better than him and Boo's regeneration made it hard to defeat him, etc., but...I just don't give a shit anymore. I don't see why people are so hell-bent on proving who's stronger than who anymore. Toriyama obviously didn't think much about it, and I'm not going to either.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by jackjack » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:16 am

That long ass post looks something Goji would say (his shit is completely irrevelant in my book). Most of it aren't even from the manga. In fact, just about every major point mentioned is contradicted by the manga.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Vagrant » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:34 am

jackjack wrote:That long ass post looks something Goji would say (his shit is completely irrevelant in my book). Most of it aren't even from the manga. In fact, just about every major point mentioned is contradicted by the manga.
Glad to see you back that up with evidence from the manga. My point is that it's a lot more of a grey area than seems to be painted by most people. It all depends on how much you take from the Daizenshuu books and how much you decide to rely purely on the manga. I actually think the Daizenshuu could potentially indicate the intent was for Pure Boo to be the strongest, even if it were portrayed badly. Is all I'm saying.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Fox666 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:16 pm

Vagrant post is surely a interesting reading

However, you must read Goku's line inside the context
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”
The problem is that Goku is not saiyang "Vegeta, this guys is stronger than us" but "Even after we removed the people he absorbed, he is still stronger than us"

And we know what was the result of Buu with Gotenks absorbed fighting Goku

Image

Remember that Gohan was fighting this Majin Boo, even if he was loosing the battle. Judging by Goku reaction, does it looks like Goku could fight back Boo like Gohan?

Besides that, there are other lines that indicate that Goku couldn't handle Super Buu
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Herms wrote:Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P2.4-5
Context: after evil Boo appears inside his own body
Vegeta: “Da…damn it…! Th-this could be bad…”
Goku: “Di-didn’t I tell ya to wear your Potara?! Th-this is why! If we could just go outside and merge, then this kind of guy would be an easy victory!”

p123
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by p123 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:45 pm

What the hell is going on?


As we can see...


Buuhan > Buutenks > Gohan > Super Buu > Goku


Goku never suggests he could take on Buucolo, only that Gohan could take him out. Piccolo/BaseGoten/Trunks logically don't power up Buucolo that much either... And Goku tells Vegeta that they are nothing compard to Super Buu.

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