.

[dbgtFO]

That long ass post looks something Goji would say (his shit is completely irrevelant in my book). Most of it aren't even from the manga. In fact, just about every major point mentioned is contradicted by the manga.

Who's "Goji"?

And whoever wrote that was right about this though:

Gohan was there for Boo’s defeat; he even contributed to it. And as you'll recall, his contribution, which should have been all the power he could muster, was totally insufficient.

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P13.3-4
Goku: “Oh! It’s here, it’s here! It’s already huge! This is Gohan and the others’ ki!”
Vegeta: “…Bu-but it’s not complete yet…Wh-why…?!”

Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321), P1.1
Context: after Gohan and co. contribute their genki to the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey, even this probably isn’t enough to wipe out Boo! What are they doing?! Hardly anyone but our friends is sending us ki!”

Although Goku switches back and forth between the terms genki and ki, so we don't really know, if Gohan's genki is like 5 times weaker than his total ki.
In any case, we know that what Gohan contributed was not enough to wipe Boo out, while Goku's Full Power would have been enough, which gives the conclusion, that Gohan's contribution < SSJ 3 Goku at Full Power. If this relates to how they in general measure up to each other is unknown.

[Savage68]

Who's "Goji"?

Gojirason, some guy from some forums (namely MFG) that specialized in making long-winded and convoluted posts that argue Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu. And yes, that post was definitely made by him. It warms my heart to know that some guys are still under his sway, even after all this time.

[jackjack]

- There's no proof Gohan actually donated all of his ki, because others didn't. Heck, he probably wasn't at even at full power, since he didn't power up; Piccolo didn't power up, either, or at least remove his weights, and the boys didn't transform, let alone fuse. Genki =/= ki, is the best explanation I can think of right now, because I don't see why they would hold back.

- Kamehameha is a ki attack that concentrates/amplifies the user's ki, meaning it would have a power level much higher than Goku's full power level (and Boo's). So for all we know, a Genki Dama filled with all of Goku's ki probably wouldn't be sufficient, either.

- You probably would need something that's 5x stronger than Boo to overcome his regeneration. If Gohan's 4x stronger, then...well, you get the idea.

- Then you have Goku's quote to Vegeta that "You've just been restored to life...Your ki still isn't full..." which would explain why Vegeta fought in base. Perhaps it had something to do with Gohan and co., too. Who knows? There might be even more possibilities than I cared to give, so I picked out the tip of the iceberg here.

[dbgtFO]

Genki =/= ki, is the only explanation I can think of right now, because I don't see why they would hold back.

Well obviously. I just find it weird, that Goku first tells everyone to send their genki, but then in the next instance he says, that what they received is Gohan & the others' ki.

- Kamehameha is a ki attack that concentrates/amplifies one's ki, meaning it would have a power level much higher than Goku's full power level (and Boo's). So for all we know, a Genki Dama filled with all of Goku's ki probably wouldn't be sufficient, either

But Goku refers to it, as his Full Power and not some ki attack that's several folds stronger than him.

- You probably would need something that's 5x stronger than Boo to overcome his regeneration. If Gohan's 4x stronger, then, well...you get the idea.

See above.

- Then you have Goku's quote to Vegeta that "You've just been restored to life...Your ki still isn't full..." which would explain why Vegeta fought in base. Perhaps it had something to do with Gohan and co., too.

Well it seems weird, that it didn't deserve a mention then, if they really weren't at full power, when donating their Ki or genki.

@Savage68
I see.

[jackjack]

But Goku refers to it, as his Full Power and not some ki attack that's several folds stronger than him.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =8&t=14000

[dbgtFO]

But Goku refers to it, as his Full Power and not some ki attack that's several folds stronger than him.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =8&t=14000

Ok.

[AnimeMaakuo]

.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But Goku refers to it, as his Full Power and not some ki attack that's several folds stronger than him.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =8&t=14000

Hold up. So Son Goku's SSJ3 "full power" was said to be more of a charged up attack, rather than powering up for an all out assault?

That's how I always saw it. I think Goku was going all-out against Kid Boo (I mean, why wouldn't he?), but couldn't charge up the necessary ki to attack Boo in one blast, because of Super Saiyan 3's energy strain while alive.

[Vagrant]

Who's "Goji"?

Gojirason, some guy from some forums (namely MFG) that specialized in making long-winded and convoluted posts that argue Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu. And yes, that post was definitely made by him. It warms my heart to know that some guys are still under his sway, even after all this time.

Yes, because "The Kaioshin weakened Boo" cannot possibly be interpreted in the plural sense, and the Daizenshuu clearly stating all that jazz about being fellow strongest and about Goku being the strongest of the heroes can't have any impact on a debate whatsoever. Oh wait, yes it all can.

If you take only manga in consideration, that's fine, but I often see people choosing to utilise bits and pieces from the Daizenshuu and then ignoring other parts, so I feel the conflict should be mentioned. Fact is, those statements are there and it's entirely suitable to bring them up in such a debate as one facet of the argument. I generally just choose to argue for whichever side isn't being supported since that's the fun of it, and since it really doesn't matter in the long run who was stronger.

[Kaboom]

No territorial or member-dissing shenanigans.

[dbgtFO]

No territorial or member-dissing shenanigans.

I don't think any of that is going on..yet.

It looks like a proper discussion from my point of view and Vagrant just pointed to some other interesting stuff that could be included in the debate.

[p123]

Super Buu is 8x stronger than Kid Buu at minimum...

If Pre Rosat Gotenks had SSJ3 , he would be 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.


Seeing as how SSJ2 = 2x multiplier, and SSJ3 is a 4x multiplier, Pre Rosat SSJ3 Gotenks is 8x stronger than SSj3 Goku..


Post Rosat Gotenks power is quite debatable. There are many of us out there who feel Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre. According to that logic, Gotenks would probably be about 50x stronger than Goku.

Even if you nerf Post Rosat Gotenks he is still going to be somewhere in between the 8-16x threshold of Goku's superior. I mean he is a godamn fusion right?

[Rocketman]

There are many of us out there who feel Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre.

After six hours? Come on now.

[Piccolo Daimao]

There are many of us out there who feel Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre.

After six hours? Come on now.

Some people believe that because Piccolo said they'd powered up hugely and they might have a chance. Of course, others write this off as a set-up for the gag of Piccolo being instantly proven wrong and then saying "We're doomed."

[p123]

Well obviously after watching how Base Gotenks performed against Super Buu, one would think they were doomed. Especially considering that Piccolo did not think that Base Gotenks could even turn SSJ in the first place.


Piccolo on Gotenks....


SSJ Gotenks Pre = Undoubtably has no chance against Super Buu
Base Gotenks Post = This might have a chance...


Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre, by a decent margin...


It all happened in what 1 week of training? Of course that's ridicolous. Hell it's ridicolous to think that Gotenks could acquire not only SSJ2 but SSJ3 in a week's time of training.


Obviously it's a ridicolous plot device, but this is hardly the first time AT has done things like that....


Gohan/Kuririn going from 23-27k against Goku Ginyu, and then what a couple of hours later to 100k range, is ridicolous.

Piccolo training on King Kaio's planet for what 6 days? And going from 2,000 to perhaps 200,000 is quite ridicolous as well.

Vegeta going from around 500k to 2.5 million is ridicolous as well...

Goku going from 90k to 3 million, crazy again..

Piccolo from the Androids Saga being stronger than SSJ Trunks in the Trunks Saga in 3 years , meanwhile Piccolo is not suggested to be anything more than Base Saiyan strength in the Trunks Saga...

I mean the list goes on and on. There is hardly much logic to AT's massive HAXES on his character. All character increase as much as the plot needs. AT creates these massively powerful villians and then obviously the hereos need to get massively stronger to combat these villians.


I mean where do you think the TOEI HAX gets there ideas from? They just go off of what AT has already laid out. Seeing as how they are just going with AT's trend, obviously they just make everyone ridicolously bigger and badder than the previously were. It's the natural trend. AT just gives better reasoning for why the increases were so ridicolous...


Goten and Trunks are ridicolous proteges that make Gohan look like a slow learner anyhow. Goten and Trunks acquire SSJ , without rage, and without hard work. And have enough power to make 18 shit herself. Meanwhile, no Pre Rosat SSJ ever seemed to pose much of a threat to 18, while the Pre Rosat SSJs worked their freaking assess off for 3 years preparing for these massively strong androids...


I mean, for us to sit here and say that any huge boost is impossible is a bit ridicolous I would think. AT does whatever the hell he wants, when he wants bottom line. It's up to us to try to make sense of it all. Some issues are harder than others, but it doesn't change the fact that these issues where heavily implied, and logically true, or else they wouldn't be implied/suggested in the first place...

[AnimeMaakuo]

.

[Fox666]

Piccolo training on King Kaio's planet for what 6 days? And going from 2,000 to perhaps 200,000 is quite ridicolous as well.

Well, Yajirobe never did any kind of training, but his battle power during the Android saga is 10,000,000. And even worst, Yajirobe broke the 1 billion mark in the Majin Boo saga!

[Vagrant]

So we can all agree that: Vegetto > Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate Gohan > Piccolo Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > SSJ3 Son Goku > Kid Buu > Evil Buu > Fat Buu.

No, we all can't. That's the point of this discussion

I remain on the fence. I can see both sides have good statements and possivble ways to explain them, and the more important factor in me not really having a firm opinion on who is stronger is that I really couldn't care less who's stronger as long as all the evidence is in consideration.

Though I do run Pure Boo as stronger in my old battle power charts, simply for the fun of causing outrage amongst others when I used to post said lists.

As a slight aside, I actually like the concept of Pure Boo being stronger, since I find the idea of both the Kaioshins weakening him due to their good nature appealing. I also like the idea of shouki/yuuki boosting up a character's power, but the problem is that both appear to be vague statements compared to the very clear fear that Goku has of Shin Boo. So the concept (if indeed it was the intent for Pure Boo to be strongest, as Daizenshuu statements imply) is good, but the implementation and the foe choice was poor if this was the case.

[Fox666]

Putting in categories

Vegetto
Super Boo (Gohan) - Super Boo (Gotenks)
Ultimate Gohan
Gotenks SSJ3 - Super Boo - Super Boo (Piccolo)
Goku SSJ3 - Fat Boo - Kid Boo

I think almost anybody here would agree with that. I am just not sure about Mr. Boo and Evil Boo

[Nazi Cola]

So we can all agree that: Vegetto > Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate Gohan > Piccolo Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > SSJ3 Son Goku > Kid Buu > Evil Buu > Fat Buu.

I can agree to that, except I would keep Fat Boo stronger than Skinny Boo (Evil Buu).