Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[linkdude20002001]

It's not even that hick-like... Lots of people say ain't and shorten words to gonna, wouldn't've, et cetera. :/

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's not even that hick-like... Lots of people say ain't and shorten words to gonna, wouldn't've, et cetera. :/

Some old-school dub fans are stingy. They'll be like, "Why is Goku using "ain't" and "gonna"? He's s'posed to be all serious and stuff!"

[batistabus]

It's not even that hick-like... Lots of people say ain't and shorten words to gonna, wouldn't've, et cetera. :/

Some old-school dub fans are stingy. They'll be like, "Why is Goku using "ain't" and "gonna"? He's s'posed to be all serious and stuff!"

I mean...kind of. Before I knew much about the Japanese version, I always thought Goku was raised by his grandpa to be polite and formal...

[KKZ]

It's not even that hick-like... Lots of people say ain't and shorten words to gonna, wouldn't've, et cetera. :/

Some old-school dub fans are stingy. They'll be like, "Why is Goku using "ain't" and "gonna"? He's s'posed to be all serious and stuff!"

I think mainstream fans wouldn't even notice the difference honestly. Only nerds on YouTube seem to care about stuff like that.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's not even that hick-like... Lots of people say ain't and shorten words to gonna, wouldn't've, et cetera. :/

Some old-school dub fans are stingy. They'll be like, "Why is Goku using "ain't" and "gonna"? He's s'posed to be all serious and stuff!"

I think mainstream fans wouldn't even notice the difference honestly. Only nerds on YouTube seem to care about stuff like that.

I don't know, even mainstream fans can be nitpicky...

[xzero]

I understand the hick element of Goku's character, but I really think that "ain't" is just inappropriate for the English version. The argument that lots of people say "ain't" does not really cut it. I think the one element of Goku's characterization in the dub that Funi really improved on is to raise Goku's intelligence a little bit. Not enough to change the character (well, maybe in the original, but not in Kai), just enough to make Goku sound less stupid.

Moreover, a lot of the dialogue in Kai is more intelligent overall than much of what appears on other kids shows. Compare anything else on Nicktoons (I haven't seen Avatar, so that could be the exception) with the writing on Kai. Beneath the "I'm stronger than you are!" posturing, there's a generally well-written show. If Goku's the bottom of the proverbial barrel in terms of the heroes' intelligence, raising him up slightly has the secondary effect of increasing the show's level of intelligence overall. Honestly, couldn't America use smarter kids?

[penguintruth]

Goku is an unsophisticated hick. It's not Funimation's place to "improve" an element of the show. Ever.

You want a smarter main character? Go watch another show.

[linkdude20002001]

Well said, penguintruth! Seriously... If people don't like Gokuh's IQ level, go read/watch another cartoon. Making him smarter isn't an improvement; it's a disgrace to Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama. You're basically saying that Dragon Ball sucks and needs improvement. If that's the case, then perhaps the English dub isn't even Dragon Ball. Sure, for the most part it's the same, but perhaps you get the point I'm trying to get across.

[Innagadadavida]

Disgrace to Akira Toriyama!? The man cares more about the poop he took this morning than Dragon Ball. That's not my official stand in this arguement BTW.

[jjgp1112]

Saying Goku could be a little less stupid =/= saying Dragon Ball sucks.

[batistabus]

Goku is much more interesting as a hick...there's no way around it. Part of the charm is he comes off stupid, isn't very street smart, yet is a genius at fighting and strategy.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Goku is much more interesting as a hick...there's no way around it. Part of the charm is he comes off stupid, isn't very street smart, yet is a genius at fighting and strategy.

He gives a little of his energy to Freeza. He gives a Senzu bean to Cell.....

[KKZ]

I understand the hick element of Goku's character, but I really think that "ain't" is just inappropriate for the English version. The argument that lots of people say "ain't" does not really cut it. I think the one element of Goku's characterization in the dub that Funi really improved on is to raise Goku's intelligence a little bit. Not enough to change the character (well, maybe in the original, but not in Kai), just enough to make Goku sound less stupid.

Moreover, a lot of the dialogue in Kai is more intelligent overall than much of what appears on other kids shows. Compare anything else on Nicktoons (I haven't seen Avatar, so that could be the exception) with the writing on Kai. Beneath the "I'm stronger than you are!" posturing, there's a generally well-written show. If Goku's the bottom of the proverbial barrel in terms of the heroes' intelligence, raising him up slightly has the secondary effect of increasing the show's level of intelligence overall. Honestly, couldn't America use smarter kids?

I agree. It shouldn't matter whether or not Goku says "isn't" over "ain't" or vice versa, because it's a minute difference, the essence of Goku's character is still there as far as I can tell. That's what matters in the grand scheme of things. If the same basic character is being portrayed, then slight adjustment for the sake of palatability (If you can even call it that, I don't even think FUNimation sat down and thought about something so silly) should be lauded, not chastized. It's similar to how Peter Kelamis and Ian Corlett tried to maintain the essence of Masako Nozawa's performance when they played Goku so many years ago. I don't remember either of them using "ain't" or, in Kelamis' words, "running the risk of hitting a note so high that I may not be able to have children in future life." However, both got the message across very well. I wish everything else about the Ocean dub was as good as most of the cast.

I agree with you about Kai's fantastic writing. I find that most children's series now seem to play down to children's tastes, but FUNimation does the very opposite. FUNimation is trying to build upon their tastes with Kai, hopefully it's working. The ratings have certainly been impressive at least. Speaking of great writing, if you haven't seen Avatar: The Last Airbender yet, you really should. Book 1 is boring and awkward but from Book 2 on it's fantastic, I find it much better than any Dragon Ball series and most anime series in general.

Goku is an unsophisticated hick. It's not Funimation's place to "improve" an element of the show. Ever.

It's in their place to do whatever they think is profitable because the show is licensed to them, luckily they've been doing that while still appealing to even the most nitpicky fans. Nothing they've done with Kai should be objectionable to even the most overzealous fans of the original material.

[penguintruth]

It's in their place to do whatever they think is profitable because the show is licensed to them, luckily they've been doing that while still appealing to even the most nitpicky fans. Nothing they've done with Kai should be objectionable to even the most overzealous fans of the original material.

It's their legal right to change things, but not their moral right. If they miss the nuances of the show as intended, then they miss the point. Yes, even of DBZ, a fighting show.

Getting only the general idea of the show isn't acceptable for most of their other titles, why should it be so for this one? Because people grew up watching their fucked up version?

This is that Funimation arrogance I dislike. That they think they know what's best for a show that's already been made, that they can add their own creative input to something that they didn't create. They need to shut the fuck up and just do their jobs. When they start animating their own programs, then they can have input into what those shows are like.

They shouldn't pat themselves on the back for taking over a decade to start doing things correctly, either. Just thinking of that video where Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel are blowing each other over how brilliant they are now that they aren't putting in replacement music makes me a little sick. Yeah, great job guys, but not sucking is what you're always supposed to do.

This isn't to say I'm not mostly satisfied with what they're doing with Kai, but it's good, not amazing.

[Taku128]

It's in their place to do whatever they think is profitable because the show is licensed to them, luckily they've been doing that while still appealing to even the most nitpicky fans. Nothing they've done with Kai should be objectionable to even the most overzealous fans of the original material.

It's their legal right to change things, but not their moral right. If they miss the nuances of the show as intended, then they miss the point. Yes, even of DBZ, a fighting show.

Moral? What the fuck do morals have to do with anything? Toei sold FUNimation the license and clearly don't care what changes they make to the material, or the license would have been revoked over a decade ago. If the people who created it don't have a problem with the licensor making changes then there's nothing wrong with making changes. It's not your property, you have no actual entitlement to a faithful translation, and there's sure as shit nothing "immoral" about rewriting a fucking cartoon.

[jjgp1112]

It's in their place to do whatever they think is profitable because the show is licensed to them, luckily they've been doing that while still appealing to even the most nitpicky fans. Nothing they've done with Kai should be objectionable to even the most overzealous fans of the original material.

It's their legal right to change things, but not their moral right. If they miss the nuances of the show as intended, then they miss the point. Yes, even of DBZ, a fighting show.

Moral? What the fuck do morals have to do with anything? Toei sold FUNimation the license and clearly don't care what changes they make to the material, or the license would have been revoked over a decade ago. If the people who created it don't have a problem with the licensor making changes then there's nothing wrong with making changes. It's not your property, you have no actual entitlement to a faithful translation, and there's sure as shit nothing "immoral" about rewriting a fucking cartoon.

That was...beautiful

[KKZ]

Moral? What the fuck do morals have to do with anything? Toei sold FUNimation the license and clearly don't care what changes they make to the material, or the license would have been revoked over a decade ago. If the people who created it don't have a problem with the licensor making changes then there's nothing wrong with making changes. It's not your property, you have no actual entitlement to a faithful translation, and there's sure as shit nothing "immoral" about rewriting a fucking cartoon.

While I'm not nearly as adamant about faithfulness to the original voice work and script as penguintruth, I think you're way out of line so I'll defend him. You're probably very well right about Toei's attitude about FUNimation's work on their properties, or perhaps their lack of an attitude. They're ultimately trying to be as successful as possible financially. However, that's from the standpoint of Toei as a company, perhaps the people who actually work on the series would feel a lot differently? I think you're taking his word choice of "moral" too literally and harping on him too much as a result. While I myself personally enjoy when companies attempt to make good shows even better within reason (For example, FUNimation's dub script of Yu Yu Hakusho is superior by leaps and bounds over the original in my opinion), I appreciate penguintruth's sentiment for accuracy after reading his post. He's right, dubbing companies are technically just supposed to dub the material and nothing more.

Why are people like penguintruth not entitled to good acting and faithful scripts? Based off his reviews, I think penguintruth shells out money for this stuff, so he should get what he pays for. Ultimately, expecting an accurate English representation of the source material shouldn't be out of the question and having that desire should by no means be attacked. Just because Dragon Ball Z is a cartoon doesn't make drastic changes to it automatically excusable. DBZ, like all intellectual properties, should be respected in the best way possible and your attitude is honestly a little disheartening. Do you feel this way about all foreign media localizations? I'm pretty sure penguintruth wasn't just speaking on behalf of DBZ, but on behalf of all foreign properties as a whole. Could you imagine what it would be like if every single media export was treated like, say, the original FUNi dub of DBZ Season 3, or worse? Do you think that's okay? I seriously doubt foreign film or anime would be taken seriously at all by mainstream viewers and if you think they would be, that honestly says a lot about you as a viewer...

[penguintruth]

Moral? What the fuck do morals have to do with anything? Toei sold FUNimation the license and clearly don't care what changes they make to the material, or the license would have been revoked over a decade ago. If the people who created it don't have a problem with the licensor making changes then there's nothing wrong with making changes. It's not your property, you have no actual entitlement to a faithful translation, and there's sure as shit nothing "immoral" about rewriting a fucking cartoon.

When they ignore what the show is, they create a different show. In other words, the show becomes not DBZ, but some mutant. And they have no business passing it off as DBZ if it isn't.

Funimation doesn't make anime. Their job isn't to remake the show. I don't care what they paid for, they have a moral obligation to the intention of the work, regardless of whether it's a "fucking cartoon" or not, or how much they paid for it.

There's no such thing as high art and low art. There is just art. If Funimation thinks that the Dragon Ball franchise is good enough to drop money on, they should have had enough respect to do it right to begin with. Fortunately, it seems they've wisened a bit over the years, though it's probably because they can afford to do things right, having made enough money off of doing it wrong.

If they have no intention to treat an artwork with respect, they shouldn't have licensed it to begin with. And they shouldn't be masturbating over finally doing what they should have been doing all along.

I'm not naive. I know that Funimation is in the business of making money. Legally, they can do pretty much anything they want to the show. But just because they can, doesn't mean they should. And they arrogantly make themselves out to be some sort of huge creative force behind anime. They're not. They take other people's work and resell it. They need to stop getting big heads over it. They're not an animation studio, and they need to stop pretending to be.

And frankly, I don't care if Goku speaks "hick speak" in the dub or not, but it wouldn't hurt. I think just getting his attitude is fine, and at least they're doing pretty well with that now.

[Innagadadavida]

Not that having this same conversation for the nth time isn't riveting (with Penguintruth leading the pack no less), but Dragon Ball Z Kai jumped up in ratings last week on the Toonzai block over on CW. Did anybody report on this here?

Dragon Ball Z Kai 0.5/2; Dragon Ball Z Kai 0.6/3;

Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.1/4;

So, uh, Dragon Ball. Doin pretty good on American Television. Well, acceptable. Maybe not "pretty good".

[Taku128]

When they ignore what the show is, they create a different show. In other words, the show becomes not DBZ, but some mutant. And they have no business passing it off as DBZ if it isn't.

Funimation doesn't make anime. Their job isn't to remake the show. I don't care what they paid for, they have a moral obligation to the intention of the work, regardless of whether it's a "fucking cartoon" or not, or how much they paid for it.

There's no such thing as high art and low art. There is just art. If Funimation thinks that the Dragon Ball franchise is good enough to drop money on, they should have had enough respect to do it right to begin with. Fortunately, it seems they've wisened a bit over the years, though it's probably because they can afford to do things right, having made enough money off of doing it wrong.

If they have no intention to treat an artwork with respect, they shouldn't have licensed it to begin with. And they shouldn't be masturbating over finally doing what they should have been doing all along.

I'm not naive. I know that Funimation is in the business of making money. They can do pretty much anything they want to the show. But just because they can, doesn't mean they should. And they arrogantly make themselves out to be some sort of huge creative force behind anime. They're not. They take other people's work and resell it. They need to stop getting big heads over it. They're not an animation studio, and they need to stop pretending to be.

Art has a message, and if Dragon Ball actually had a message Toei or Toriyama would make sure foreign licensors didn't tamper with the material. Hell, Toriyama would've just ended the series when he wanted to if he was actually trying to state something with the series, instead of letting others push him into writing arcs past where he wanted to end the series. Dragon Ball isn't art, it's a global multimedia franchise focused on getting parents to buy their children various licensed goods, which is why Kai is being canceled despite excellent ratings. FUNimation takes the show and changes elements they believe would not work with an American audience. It's all in the name of more money, which is what Dragon Ball is all about.