My odd little theory on the SSj3 transformation.

[Kingdom Heartless]

This is just a little theory I was thinking about, about the conditions of achieving SSj3. It may seem a bit silly, but still, give me your thoughts.

The way I see it, SSj1 can be considered an immature state of transformation, and SSj2 is a kind of true SSj form.

But enter SSj3, easily the most mysterious and confusing form. Why the drastic change in looks? Well, the way I look at it, it may not be a real SSj form at all. More of a power mutation of the other SSj forms. We only see two SSj3s in the manga, Goku and Gotenks. One was dead to start with, the other was a fusion. Both bodies were in an unnatural state. I believe that SSj3 is achieved by pushing an unnatural body to its limits, which causes a mutation that may explain the drastic change in appearance. It would also explain why it is so much more difficult for Goku to maintain after his revival... it's not a form that is meant to be achieved in a natural body, so his body simply rejects it. So I believe the likes of Vegeta and Gohan would not be able to achieve this form in their current state.

[Godo]

I think that SSJ3 is to SSJ2 the same as SSJ Grade 2 is to SSJ1, but an improved version. In other words, SSJ3 is the SSJ2 Grade 3, only muscle size didn't differ much. That's why it used up too much power, and why it was unstable. Just like the SSJ Grade 2 transformation.
That's my personal fanon anyways.

[Herms]

I have a theory: GT demonstrates that when two identical people fuse (like the two No.17s) they form a long-haired, eyebrow-less version of themselves. We also know that in the afterlife after Goku learned Fusion from the Metamorians, he still never got to try it out because there wasn't anyone in the afterlife on par with him. So I think that Super Saiyan 3 resulted from Goku using his ki to create temporal distortions that result in two of him existing simultaneously, which then merge together (the effect isn't as good as Metamorian Fusion or the Potara, since both Gokus only half-exist). Goku says that there's no time in the afterlife, which is why this technique is easier there and uses up so much more energy in the living world. And dead people aren't really subject to time (they don't age or anything), so that's why it's easier to perform when you're dead. Gotenks was able to master it quickly because he already was a product of Fusion to begin with and so had experience with that sort of thing, and he was training in the Room of Spirit and Time, another place where time is a little wonky.

[kaialone]

I think SSJ3 isnt a natural state,because Goku was almost unable to use it while alive.It like its not supposed to be.

[Kaboom]

From a strictly "what-we're-shown" angle, I think Super Saiyan 3 is something imperfect and "special" that normally shouldn't be possible. It requires and uses an extraordinary amount of power, and is only apparently reachable or even existent under certain circumstances (Goku was dead in the afterlife, and Gotenks was a magical Fusion). Hence why even though he trained himself like crazy to be more or less on Goku's level, Vegeta didn't even know the stage existed.

Outside of that,I also like to think that because it gives the Saiyan visible irises, which the prior Super Saiyan stages don't have, that it's tied into Super Saiyan 4 somehow. In a sort of, "nice try, but you can't access this power that way" kind of deal.

EDIT: Moved this to the In-Universe subforum.

[mister yummy]

Not a SSJ3 theory, as such, but one that involves it. The post prior to mine made me think of it. SSJ4 gives about as much power as SSJ3, but it's much more efficient.

[Cipher]

I don't think there's any theory with much evidence on to what exactly brings Super Saiyan 3 about, but I do like the fact that it's something more otherworldly than the other stages. As others have said, achieving it seems to take situations providing abnormal ki manipulation (being dead, Fusion). Even then, it actually reduces Goku's time on Earth and the length of Gotenks' Fusion. Goku can't reach its full power while alive, and can only use it at all as a child after regaining his tail.

There's a definite supernatural element to it. That's also why I dislike characters like Vegeta being granted the form in certain video games (ahem). Everything we see in the series implies it can't be reached through training alone.

I also like Kaboom's idea that it's kind of a freak, unnatural way of tapping into the depths of Saiyan power normally accessible through the more "natural" Super Saiyan 4 transformation. Of course there isn't really any evidence for that, and any time you have view events in Dragon Ball retroactively, you know you're adding explanations that couldn't possibly have been intended at the time.

[Super Vegito]

SSJ3 is just the next level. A level that Goku has not mastered, which is why it takes up so much energy. Similar to when Goku first obtained SSJ and hadn't mastered it yet. It wasn't exactly easy to transform and stay in that state.

Drastic change? He just lost his eyebrows (reference to great ape) and grew more hair.

Gotenks? Gotenks reached it because he had the power. Gohan could probably reach it if he trained, but he didn't need to because of his Ultimate form, which is stronger than SSJ3.

[hleV]

I'm pretty sure Toriyama never looked too deeply into it. He just made new levels. First there were advanced Super Saiyan grades, and later new levels. SSJ3 was introduced as a last, most epic Saiyan transformation, that's all.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

SSJ3 is just the next level. A level that Goku has not mastered, which is why it takes up so much energy. Similar to when Goku first obtained SSJ and hadn't mastered it yet. It wasn't exactly easy to transform and stay in that state.

Drastic change? He just lost his eyebrows (reference to great ape) and grew more hair.

Gotenks? Gotenks reached it because he had the power. Gohan could probably reach it if he trained, but he didn't need to because of his Ultimate form, which is stronger than SSJ3.

But given that Goku can't master it, that supernatural training is shown to be the only way to achieve it, and the fact that Gotenks defies logic to begin with, I don't see how it isn't unnatural. It could be the Sayain body's way of coping with an amount of power it wasn't designed to handle? There is no evolutionary advantage to gigantic hair (Granted Toriyama only drew SS3 that way because it looked cool).

It is funny to think about; the afterlife or the RoSaT basically numb the body, then when it's thrown back under a mortal coil and normal gravity and goes like "Whoa! I can't do this!"

[Kingdom Heartless]

It could be the Sayain body's way of coping with an amount of power it wasn't designed to handle?

Yeah, that's basically what I mean.

[NeoKING]

Super Saiyan 3 is a surreal, spiritual form of the Super Saiyan state that can only be attained through surpassing limits that don't exist in the physical realm(on Earth). That's how I see it.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Super Saiyan 3 is a surreal, spiritual form of the Super Saiyan state that can only be attained through surpassing limits that don't exist in the physical realm(on Earth). That's how I see it.

Bada-bing.

[Fox666]

We only see two SSj3s in the manga, Goku and Gotenks. One was dead to start with, the other was a fusion. Both bodies were in an unnatural state.

What they both have in common is power. However I wouldn't go by that line.

Trunks from the future reached Super Saiyan at a very would age, and since a base form one-armed Gohan could handle him, it's easy to deduce that his power is considerable low. So it doesn't seem to have a power rule, at least for the first stage.

In fact, as far as the story goes, Super Saiyan is not something you reach, but something you learn. Wasn't it implied that Goku discovered the Super Saiyan 3 using his intelect, rather than power?

And Gotenks was able to copy it after witnessing it. I mean, Gotenks is the fusion beetween two kids who learned to transform in Super Saiyan by just fooling around. It's not special for him to be a genius when it comes to Super Saiyan stages.

More of a power mutation of the other SSj forms.

I wouldn't call it "mutation", that's a term that would better describe Grade 2 and Grade 3.

It could be the Sayain body's way of coping with an amount of power it wasn't designed to handle?

That's a way to explain it.

The Super Saiyan takes to a confortable new level of power
The Super Saiyan 2 takes someone's to the limit of power he can handle
The Super Saiyan 3 over-load someone's body with all power that exist on it

[Son_Gohan]

I disagree that Super Saiyan 3 is some unnatural form that only few Saiyans can achieve under special circumstances. Given by how it's described in the manga by Goku; it comes off as just a natural progression of Super Saiyan which he believes any Saiyan is potentially capable of achieving:

Chapter: 474 (DBZ 280), P3.3-8, P4.1, P7.5
Goku: “First, this is my regular state. This is Super Saiyan. Then this is what I showed your before, a Super Saiyan that has surpassed Super Saiyan…’Super Saiyan 2’, you could call it. [ ] And so…[ ] This…Ev-even further surpasses that…[ ] …This is Super Saiyan 3. Sorry that took so long. I’m still not used to this transformation.”

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P12.2-4
Kaioshin: “In-incredible…S-so this is Fusion?...”
Goku: “N-no…That’s Fusion, no doubt about it, but…Thi-this is Super Saiyan 3…! Un-unbelievable…Those rotten little brats…They al-already became Super Saiyan 3, and that took me years to finally manage it…Am-amazin’…haha…amazin’…!”

Goku is not surprised at how they attained the form itself, only the fact that they did it in such a short period of time.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Be warned, this theory includes GT references. lol

To me, Super Saiyan 3 is a nothing more than a way to let the Saiyans know there is more power available to them in the form of Super Saiyan 4. The physical traits could all be seen with the Oozaru (increased muscle mass, bulging and hairless eyebrows, rapid hair growth), and the only emotional trait mentioned is that Super Saiyan 3 is calmer than the previous forms (bar Full Power Super Saiyan). Both of these aspects seem like clues to me... the physical appearance seems as if it is telling the Saiyan to return to the Oozaru transformations. The hair remaining golden could be seen as a hint that they should become a Super Saiyan while in the Oozaru form, and the calm heart of Super Saiyan 3 is the key to controlling the Super Oozaru and ascending to Super Saiyan 4.

The power aspects of the form support this IMO as well. The fact that Super Saiyan 3 is so draining and difficult to use while alive may be the Saiyan's body telling them that the form is useless and there is nothing for them beyond this point in the transformation line. Simply, they went down the wrong path. The multipliers help too, at least to me. Super Saiyan 3 is base x400, and the Super Oozaru would be base x500 (x10 for Oozaru plus another x50 for Super Saiyan). This seems oddly close to me, and realistically, it is probably mere coincidence from someone picking SEG numbers at random, but in-universe, this could be because the form is an forced and unnatural attempt to unlock the power of the latter. Even though the Oozaru forms are initially difficult and more dangerous to use, consciousness can be retained through training as Vegeta shows us. The effort results in an amazing and much more natural power with Super Saiyan 4, so I guess the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

[Senzu_Bean]

I have a theory: GT demonstrates that when two identical people fuse (like the two No.17s) they form a long-haired, eyebrow-less version of themselves. We also know that in the afterlife after Goku learned Fusion from the Metamorians, he still never got to try it out because there wasn't anyone in the afterlife on par with him. So I think that Super Saiyan 3 resulted from Goku using his ki to create temporal distortions that result in two of him existing simultaneously, which then merge together (the effect isn't as good as Metamorian Fusion or the Potara, since both Gokus only half-exist). Goku says that there's no time in the afterlife, which is why this technique is easier there and uses up so much more energy in the living world. And dead people aren't really subject to time (they don't age or anything), so that's why it's easier to perform when you're dead. Gotenks was able to master it quickly because he already was a product of Fusion to begin with and so had experience with that sort of thing, and he was training in the Room of Spirit and Time, another place where time is a little wonky.

Absolutely this. Period!

[Fox666]

Be warned, this theory includes GT references. lol

To me, Super Saiyan 3 is a nothing more than a way to let the Saiyans know there is more power available to them in the form of Super Saiyan 4. The physical traits could all be seen with the Oozaru (increased muscle mass, bulging and hairless eyebrows, rapid hair growth), and the only emotional trait mentioned is that Super Saiyan 3 is calmer than the previous forms (bar Full Power Super Saiyan). Both of these aspects seem like clues to me... the physical appearance seems as if it is telling the Saiyan to return to the Oozaru transformations. The hair remaining golden could be seen as a hint that they should become a Super Saiyan while in the Oozaru form, and the calm heart of Super Saiyan 3 is the key to controlling the Super Oozaru and ascending to Super Saiyan 4.

The power aspects of the form support this IMO as well. The fact that Super Saiyan 3 is so draining and difficult to use while alive may be the Saiyan's body telling them that the form is useless and there is nothing for them beyond this point in the transformation line. Simply, they went down the wrong path. The multipliers help too, at least to me. Super Saiyan 3 is base x400, and the Super Oozaru would be base x500 (x10 for Oozaru plus another x50 for Super Saiyan). This seems oddly close to me, and realistically, it is probably mere coincidence from someone picking SEG numbers at random, but in-universe, this could be because the form is an forced and unnatural attempt to unlock the power of the latter. Even though the Oozaru forms are initially difficult and more dangerous to use, consciousness can be retained through training as Vegeta shows us. The effort results in an amazing and much more natural power with Super Saiyan 4, so I guess the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Okay, that's cute, but I don't think GT ever considered power as something serious.

Super Android 17 was a match for SSJ4 Goku, but Goku defeated him in his base form, so SSJ4 multiply the power by 0.001?

[Super Vegito]

^Not to mention just one of them (android 17) was suppose to be no stronger than an un-mastered SSJ. How would fusing two of them (making them "complete") sky rocket 17 to SSJ4? Pretty huge leap if you ask me. Way beyond Vegito (SSJ2 + SSJ3).

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Okay, that's cute, but I don't think GT ever considered power as something serious.

Super Android 17 was a match for SSJ4 Goku, but Goku defeated him in his base form, so SSJ4 multiply the power by 0.001?

No need to sound condescending.

Who said anything about the actual plot being relative to my theory? I accept that Goku went out into space, returned home to defeat Bebi, fought Super 17, and then defeated 7 evil dragons, but I don't think it happened the way Toei depicted. IMO, Toei is pretty bad at writing without a source material to draw from. Their filler got progressively worse as the series continued, and the ultimate end filler is no exception.

It isn't like Super 17's death method is unprecedented. Once Z started, Goku's fought nearly everyone with a high powered form and then tried to defeat them in base. He fought Vegeta and Freeza with the Kaioken levels before settling on base to form a Genki Dama, and with Buu he fought as a Super Saiyan 3 before returning to base to try the same thing. Nothing wrong with GT doing the same thing, though it worked better against Yi Xing Long with an actual Genki Dama. I guess it makes some sense with Toei treating Godku's Ryuken as the next Genki Dama tier attack, but I still don't buy it.

^Not to mention just one of them (android 17) was suppose to be no stronger than an un-mastered SSJ. How would fusing two of them (making them "complete") sky rocket 17 to SSJ4? Pretty huge leap if you ask me. Way beyond Vegito (SSJ2 + SSJ3).

I don't think it was ever stated that he was SS4 tier after his creation was it? He absorbed ki to reach that level...I mean even Vegeta, the ultimate ki spammer, was there trying to kill him and Goku ended up doing the same thing after he arrived.