Toriko Takes DBK's Slot On April 3 (Kai Ends with Cell)

[penguintruth]

That's what I'm wondering about. So what if Kai isn't topping sales? If they cancelled every anime that wasn't topping sales, there'd barely be any anime out at all.

I guess, though, it comes down to whether the merchandise sales are good enough to warrent the production prices.

[Echo64]

There are two things I have been wondering about if FUNimation does decide to continue the series:
1. Where would they get the music?
2. Who would be doing the recuts?

[Flamingwindjutsu]

There are two things I have been wondering about if FUNimation does decide to continue the series:
1. Where would they get the music?
2. Who would be doing the recuts?

1. I assume/hope that they would license the existing Kai soundtrack.

2. I would assume, Chris Sabat. Which, you know, I don't think that'd be a bad thing, he seems to have a grasp on the spirit of the show now.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

There are two things I have been wondering about if FUNimation does decide to continue the series:
1. Where would they get the music?
2. Who would be doing the recuts?

1. I assume/hope that they would license the existing Kai soundtrack.

2. I would assume, Chris Sabat. Which, you know, I don't think that'd be a bad thing, he seems to have a grasp on the spirit of the show now.

Then FUNimation would be the one who does the remastering? that wouldn't be good....

[RazorX]

At this point Toei has a number of options available to them.

The most optimistic is continuing with the Buu saga, including the other world Tournament, but leaving all the episodes completely uncut. That way there's less editing costs and we get more episodes. They could market this under a different name but keep Kenji Yamamoto as the music composer.

Or Toei could take a break, keep Dragon Ball Kai fresh on people's minds via its rerun on Fuji TV Two and continue with the Buu saga when the reruns reach the end of the Cell Games.

Toei may provide the footage for the Tournament and Buu sagas uncut to international licensees, with Yamamoto's music, updated sound effects but keep the footage uncut. Even if they don't continue with the Buu saga in Japan, I think Toei will take the opportunity to make a lot of money from international licensees for what is marketed as a brand new show.

I do not want anyone editing the Z footage for Kai. Funi/Saban got a lot of flak for doing that in the first 2 sagas of DBZ, they should not edit the footage. I don't even want Toei to edit the footage because the filler in the Buu saga is as enjoyable as the canon material (Who would've guessed Pre-SSJ Gotenks vs Buu is filler? I didn't, it was that good)

[Goku100xKamehameha]

At this point Toei has a number of options available to them.

The most optimistic is continuing with the Buu saga, including the other world Tournament, but leaving all the episodes completely uncut. That way there's less editing costs and we get more episodes. They could market this under a different name but keep Kenji Yamamoto as the music composer.

I do not want anyone editing the Z footage for Kai, Funi/Saban got a lot of flak for doing that in the first 2 sagas, they should not edit the footage. I don't even want Toei to edit the footage because the filler in the Buu saga is as enjoyable as the canon material (Who would've guessed Pre-SSJ Gotenks vs Buu is filler? I didn't, it was that good)

But then it would defeat the purpose of the show itself (being closer to the Manga), wouldn't it?

[RazorX]

At this point Toei has a number of options available to them.

The most optimistic is continuing with the Buu saga, including the other world Tournament, but leaving all the episodes completely uncut. That way there's less editing costs and we get more episodes. They could market this under a different name but keep Kenji Yamamoto as the music composer.

I do not want anyone editing the Z footage for Kai, Funi/Saban got a lot of flak for doing that in the first 2 sagas, they should not edit the footage. I don't even want Toei to edit the footage because the filler in the Buu saga is as enjoyable as the canon material (Who would've guessed Pre-SSJ Gotenks vs Buu is filler? I didn't, it was that good)

But then it would defeat the purpose of the show itself (being closer to the Manga), wouldn't it?

It would defeat that purpose if the Buu saga isn't produced as Kai. If Toei leave the footage uncut, they'd have less editing costs and more episodes to sell. They could market it under a different name and keep Yamamoto as the music composer.

[JulieYBM]

At this point Toei has a number of options available to them.

The most optimistic is continuing with the Buu saga, including the other world Tournament, but leaving all the episodes completely uncut. That way there's less editing costs and we get more episodes. They could market this under a different name but keep Kenji Yamamoto as the music composer.

I do not want anyone editing the Z footage for Kai, Funi/Saban got a lot of flak for doing that in the first 2 sagas, they should not edit the footage. I don't even want Toei to edit the footage because the filler in the Buu saga is as enjoyable as the canon material (Who would've guessed Pre-SSJ Gotenks vs Buu is filler? I didn't, it was that good)

But then it would defeat the purpose of the show itself (being closer to the Manga), wouldn't it?

It would defeat that purpose if the Buu saga isn't produced as Kai. If Toei leave the footage uncut, they'd have less editing costs and more episodes to sell. They could market it under a different name and keep Yamamoto as the music composer.

Nobody is buying the episodes released now.

[RazorX]

But then it would defeat the purpose of the show itself (being closer to the Manga), wouldn't it?

It would defeat that purpose if the Buu saga isn't produced as Kai. If Toei leave the footage uncut, they'd have less editing costs and more episodes to sell. They could market it under a different name and keep Yamamoto as the music composer.

Nobody is buying the episodes released now.

They are. If they weren't, Toei would probably cancel the DVDs.

I was thinking more along the lines of selling to the international licensees though.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Well, we could say that Kai's purpose is to cover the Saiyan arc - Cell arc portion of the Manga, therefore, it's still closer to the Manga....

Nobody is buying the episodes released now.

Well, technically it's different... but yeah I understand what you're trying to explain.

(really nice avatar, btw)

[Herms]

But Toriko can go rot for replacing Kai, regardless. Giving it the animated crossover with One Piece, which Dragon Ball deserves more and is long overdue for, on top of that just comes off as insulting to me. As if Toei is not just indifferent about Kai, but actually thinking, "oh boy, we can't wait to kick this show to the curb and replace it!"

It's completely nonsensical to blame Toriko itself for all this though, as if it were a person.

[Kaboom]

I know. Please, just let me be a little bitter for a while. It's all I have right now.

[Scarz]

Vent away Kaboom. I certainly feel like doing so too, but I don't know if I can blame Toriko for the cancellation of Kai. I want to, I really do, but from what I've heard Toriko isn't that bad of a series. So I guess I can blame Toei for all of this. Yeah that's it. Screw Toei! Until they give me my DragonballxOne Piece special I so desperately wanted for 5 years now they're dead to me. DEAD!

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Toriko is actually super awesome. It's no wonder they dumped DBKai for it, it's gonna be a hit.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

But Toriko can go rot for replacing Kai, regardless. Giving it the animated crossover with One Piece, which Dragon Ball deserves more and is long overdue for, on top of that just comes off as insulting to me. As if Toei is not just indifferent about Kai, but actually thinking, "oh boy, we can't wait to kick this show to the curb and replace it!"

It's completely nonsensical to blame Toriko itself for all this though, as if it were a person.

Did you see the smug bastard in the orange and blue jumpsuit? It's as if he's mocking Dragonball fans!

In all seriousness, it's like watching your best friend(Dragonball) get dumped by his girlfriend(one piece) for a newer guy(Toriko) after a two year relationship. Toriko could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but Dragonball is my best friend and nobody dumps my best friend like that! Ok, maybe that wasn't as serious as I planned but you get the idea.

[Kaboom]

Action: "We know how much you and a whole big bunch of other people love our cereal, Frosto-Loops, but we don't think we're selling enough, so we're just gonna straight-up stop making them. Here, try this brand new cereal, Fruity Flakes, instead! In fact, we're going to put Fruity Flakes on the exact same spot on the shelves as Frosto-Loops used to be, so you'll like it better!"
Reaction: "To hell with your Fruity Flakes! Why are you doing this?"


Substitute product names as appropriate. That's what's going on with me, Kai, Toei, Toriko, etc. Yeah, it's not really Fruity-Flakes / Toriko's fault, but the circumstances and motives, combined with the very, as Chuquita put it, "rude" and borderline insulting manner in which Frosto-Loops / Kai is being ditched in favor of it brings one to have a distaste for it regardless.

So in the end, I will never like Toriko. That's because it has now, thanks to these unfortunate circumstances, been firmly implanted in my brain as nothing more than "the series for which Dragon Ball Kai was killed before its time." This decisively and completely overrides any merits or appeal which Toriko may have otherwise held. There's a permanent, nasty stigma attached to it which I don't foresee going away anytime soon.

[VegettoEX]

We might do. That's actually a business strategy available to Toei. Don't forget that Dragon Ball Z is not a new Anime, it's very well known. A Kai release of the Buu saga before its TV broadcast is likely to sell well, or at least better than the previous Kai releases.

Actually, that's what Funimation did for the Buu saga.

The Buu story arc had not been released before in North America. It's an irrelevant comparison.

It has not only been airing in repeats in Japan since its initial airing, but now it's been released on home format twice (Dragon Box sets and individual R2 DVDs -- which actually sold, mind you, meaning many people already own the underlying video content). Not to mention the manga, of course...

The general population cares enough about Kai to have it pop up in the top 5 of the most watched shows a number of times and always keep it in the top 10. Dragon Ball Kai is doing much, much better than a lot of other Anime in this regard.

People watching something for free does not somehow miraculously make money for its owners.

So one piece of turd is doing better than other pieces of turd. O... K...?

Toei may have overestimated sales if they expected Kai to have DBZ level sales, but it is still doing well and Kai is still profitable.

Kai is profitable? Says who? We know the sales figures for Namco-Bandai and Toei (both of which have been on the decline year-over-year, especially since 2007), but "sales" does not inherently equal "profit". If you sink $10 into something and have $5 in sales, it's not profitable. In this case, we don't know what the investment is. Saying Kai "is profitable" is not a call any of us can make, because we have no real way of knowing. I have not seen Toei make this statement.

I've heard about the merchandise sales apparently being low mentioned on this forum but do we have sales figures or charts to show how well the sales are? We have Kai calenders, figures, t shirts and even frying pans as well as other stuff.

I update this website each and every single quarter with Namco-Bandai's fiscal report. You can easily dip back through the updates and read them. It has been a steady decline for years, with constant forecasts dipping lower and lower -- not only is it doing worse than before, but they know it.

As for international licensing and revenue, Dragon Ball is Toei's biggest revenue generator by far, no other Anime comes close.

Where do you have a source for this information? It's likely true, but I haven't seen that data.

Why do you people continue to argue from delusional emotion? You can't just toss statements out there like these and expect them to be true just because you want them to be.

Look... again, I have absolutely no vested interest any which way in how this resolves itself. I really don't. I'm not going to sit here and let folks convince themselves that the franchise is completely invulnerable, though. It's not, it hasn't been for years, and I'd be shocked if some major fallout didn't come about sooner than later, with or without Kai's existence.

So what if it "defeats the purpose" by it not covering the Buu arc? Who says everything has to be and invariably will be ideal to an original concept? Things fail all the time. You don't have to like it, but hey -- welcome to reality.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

I can't say kai is cancelled until I see a report, I think it just moved to fuji tv 2 or it's on a very long hiatus status. Wonder how this will effect international licenses.

[TripleRach]

It's one thing to be upset about Kai being canceled. But all this Toriko bashing is not only off-topic, but it comes off as childish and petty. So let's cut it out and stick to talking about Kai and its timeslot and stuff.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

@Kaboom: It seems kinda silly to not even try Fruity Flakes before you judge them, y'know?. Is it really Toei or Toriko's fault if DBKai is a failure? Blame Japanese kids. Blame the people downloading the show illegally. Hell, blame the economy.