Legendary Super Saiyan... Acended Super Saiyan... SS 2.5...

[Sypheran]

Okay, we have Super Saiyan 1, Acended Super Saiyan 1, Ultra Super Saiyan 1, Legendary Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3, etc...

Now, it's my belief/theory that the Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, and Legendary Super Saiyan levels are actually one in the same... They are all simply Super Saiyan 1.5... Both times when Broly was a Legendary Super Saiyan, he exhibited several of the same traits as the Ascended and Ultra Super Saiyan forms. He also was defeated (the first time) by a severely injured Super Saiyan 1 Goku with the Z warriors energy. I feel that this represented Broly's power to be about that of a Ascended or Ultra Super Saiyan. Then, when we see Broly again, he fights and is defeated by Goten and Gohan (both only Super Saiyan 1), with inspiration from Goku's spirit. Again, I believe that this is representing Broly's power to be about that of an Ascended or Ultra Super Saiyan.

I also believe that a Super Saiyan 2.5 exists and has been seen in the series... This Super Saiyan 2.5 was Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3). It took Goku several years of training with "limitless" fatigue to achieve SS3, yet Gotenks only need a couple weeks. Also, Gotenks (SS3) eyes are not the same as Goku (SS3) eyes. Goku has green rings with a black pupil, Gotenks only has green eyes like those of the SS1 and SS2. It is because of this short time span and discrepancies between Goku's SS3 and Gotenks SS3, that I believe that Gotenks was actually a Super Saiyan 2.5 and not a true Super Saiyan 3.

Along with these, I believe that when Ginyu from the Freeza arc and Lord Slug (from the 4th movie) thought Goku was a Super Saiyan 1, he was actually a Super Saiyan 1/2... obviously obtaining a level that was beyond his regular capabilities and yet not quite a Super Saiyan either... And so, with these thoughts the only forms of the Super Saiyan is actually

1/2 < 1 < 1.5 < 2 < 2.5 < 3

With SS3 being the true final form of the Super Saiyan. With these, if you also take GT into account (simply being that Akira did have some hand in the designs), I do not believe the SS4 to actually be a stage after 3, but instead, a hybrid form of the Super Saiyan with the Oozaru, resulting in a incredibly ridiculous increase in power. However, with the SS4, I believe that this is what Gohan actually becomes after his power-up by Elder Kai. Elder Kai caused Gohan to become this, but because Gohan does not have his tail, he did not actually change physically, and only in power. Along with this, I believe that the Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is actually not a Super Saiyan 4, but (similar to how two SS1's reached a level that alone they could not, Gotenks), that he is actually something more like a Super Saiyan 4.5 or even 5 itself... and is only named SS4 because no one really thought about it at the moment...

Anyway, these are some ideas I've had for a while, any thoughts?

[hleV]

About Gotenks' eyes: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=15231. Also he was confirmed to be SSJ3 by Goku, and his eyes were drawn like that likely because Toriyama forgotten about the black pupils, as shown to be the case for Goku against Kid Boo (manga).

[Godo]

I think the following:

Super Saiya-jin:
Total ki: 200
Ki waste: 50%
Stamina: 100

Super Saiya-jin Grade 1:
Total ki: 200
Ki waste: 25%
Stamina: 75

Super Saiya-jin Grade 2:
Total Ki: 200
Ki waste: 5%
Stamina: 25

Legendary Super Saiya-jin:
Total Ki: 250
Ki waste: 0%
Stamina: Infinite?

Super Saiya-jin 2:
Total Ki: 400
Ki waste: 0%
Stamina: 100

Super Saiya-jin 3:
Total Ki: 1600
Ki waste: 50%
Stamina: 25

I actually don't see other forms than these. Of course, powering up in Super Saiya-jin 2 and Super Saiya-jin 3, like they did in Super Saiya-jin 1 (Super Saiya-jin Grade 1 and Super Saiya-jin Grade 2) would have the same effect probably. But at this point they know that it won't work. And Legendary Super Saiya-jin has it's own quirks, of course.

EDIT: Changed names to avoid confusion.
By the way, wasn't "ascended" Super Saiya-jin merely a name for Super Saiya-jin 2 (when Goku explained the Super Saiya-jin transformations to Buu)? Confused here.

EDIT 2:

I seem to recall it being used to refer to both and then Super Saiyan 2 to boot. Pretty sure the phrase was still kicking around during the Buu era dub, or at least that's what I remember from playing Buu's Fury.

Ah, nevermind then.

[Herms]

Remind me again what "Ascended" and "Ultra" Super Saiyans are supposed to be? Are those Super Saiyan Second and Third Grade (Second=Super Vegeta, Third=Trunks' thing)?

[Kaboom]

Remind me again what "Ascended" and "Ultra" Super Saiyans are supposed to be? Are those Super Saiyan Second and Third Grade (Second=Super Vegeta, Third=Trunks' thing)?

Yes, pretty much. They're old fan-terms that won't die.

[VegettoEX]

Isn't "ascended" an English-dub-only term? I wouldn't have a clue which it refers to. Grade 2? Grade 3? Both?

"And so Vegeta ascended to the higher plane of Super Saiyan Grade 2, wrapped in a veil of majestic gold, looking with pity upon his subjects below..."

[Dabooyaka]

Goku himself said Gotenks was a Super Saiyan 3. Gohan does not posses the power of a Super Saiyan 4. This is all good info, but wrong.

[Herms]

Yes, pretty much. They're old fan-terms that won't die.

OK. I had thought "Ultra" was Curtis Hoffman's term for Super Vegeta's form rather than Trunks'. Hmmm...Darn fan names.

Isn't "ascended" an English-dub-only term? I wouldn't have a clue which it refers to. Grade 2? Grade 3? Both?

I seem to recall it being used to refer to both and then Super Saiyan 2 to boot. Pretty sure the phrase was still kicking around during the Buu era dub, or at least that's what I remember from playing Buu's Fury.

[Zephyr]

Yes, pretty much. They're old fan-terms that won't die.

OK. I had thought "Ultra" was Curtis Hoffman's term for Super Vegeta's form rather than Trunks'. Hmmm...Darn fan names.

Isn't "ascended" an English-dub-only term? I wouldn't have a clue which it refers to. Grade 2? Grade 3? Both?

I seem to recall it being used to refer to both and then Super Saiyan 2 to boot. Pretty sure the phrase was still kicking around during the Buu era dub, or at least that's what I remember from playing Buu's Fury.

Yes it was. When Goku was first demonstrating Super Saiyan 3, Krillin asked if that would make Goku "double ascended".