Fusion multiplier

hleV · Post by **hleV** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:35 pm

Fox666 wrote:Well, the Super Exciting Guide says "battle power" regarding the potara fusion.

Damn.

p123 · Post by **p123** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:09 pm

The problem with that is that most people don't think Buuhan is 100 quadrillion...

And Base Vegetto is not superior to Buuhan, and if he is, it's not by a large amount where he could completely dominate him...

CatouttaHell · Post by **CatouttaHell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:12 pm

Anybody who doesn't have a problem with the "GokuxVegeta" thing is seriously overrating Vegetto. I agree with p123 that Base Vegetto isn't superior to Boohan. The Anime REALLY loves wanking Base Saiya-jins (GT anyone?) and even in the Anime it was stated that Base Vegetto wasn't quite enough to dominate Boohan and he had to go SSjin for that.

p123 · Post by **p123** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:19 pm

Yea, it's quite possible that Base Vegetto is nowhere near Buuhan at all... Especially if you are using a 50x boost, then you could essentially have Base Vegetto damn near 25x weaker than Buuhan...

I go by a different method, and I view MSSJ as a 5x multiplier, as well as viewing fusions as using halving multipliers... So my style works much differently...

CatouttaHell · Post by **CatouttaHell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:23 pm

I use the Decreasing Multiplier theory myself, with the multiplier going as low as 5x. I would just do what you do but Son Goten and Trunks' powers just don't work for me if I give them a 5x multiplier before the RoSaT (unless I assume that their costume was hindering them THAT badly against #18 I'd have their SSjin states under Base Gohan before the RoSaT.)

p123 · Post by **p123** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:28 pm

I don't believe in the decreasing multiplier. As in Vegeta/Trunks are still using 50x boost.

I believe MSSJ is just a training experience that allows the Saiyans to bring out more of their true power in base. As in , transformations are the wrong way of doing things, and a Saiyan's true power is just realized through transformations because the Saiyans just aren't aware how to bring it out any other way...

But I think Goku should have no problem bringing out his SSJ3 power in base, if he knew what to do...

p123 · Post by **p123** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:28 pm

I don't believe in the decreasing multiplier. As in Vegeta/Trunks are still using 50x boost.

I believe MSSJ is just a training experience that allows the Saiyans to bring out more of their true power in base. As in , transformations are the wrong way of doing things, and a Saiyan's true power is just realized through transformations because the Saiyans just aren't aware how to bring it out any other way...

But I think Goku should have no problem bringing out his SSJ3 power in base, if he knew what to do...

CatouttaHell · Post by **CatouttaHell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:44 pm

That's an interesting theory. I definitely think the multiplier can't be 50x anymore in the Boo Arc unless you blatantly disregard Base Gotenks (Post) >> SSjin Gotenks (Pre) and the whole Base Saiya-jins > Piccolo thing. That's a good in-universe explanation for why the multiplier would decrease from the MSSjin thing.

p123 · Post by **p123** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:57 pm

I do rather like it, thank you...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:55 am

CatouttaHell wrote:Anybody who doesn't have a problem with the "GokuxVegeta" thing is seriously overrating Vegetto.

Anybody who does is rating their fanwanked rules above flat statements.

And maybe is overrating Goku and Vegeta's base powers.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:26 pm

And maybe is overrating Goku and Vegeta's base powers.

Even if you go only by the numerals recorded in the Freeza saga, you will get a battle power close to ½ of a quadrillion (500,000,000,000,000) for Vegetto.

But of course they are stronger than they are in the Freeza saga. And the funny thing about multiplication is that it grows exponentially. If Goku and Vegeta got 10 times stronger, that makes Vegetto 100 times stronger , if they got 31 times stronger, that makes Vegetto 1,000 times stronger...

lash · Post by **lash** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:46 pm

Fox666 wrote:
And maybe is overrating Goku and Vegeta's base powers.
Even if you go only by the numerals recorded in the Freeza saga, you will get a battle power close to ½ of a quadrillion (500,000,000,000,000) for Vegetto.

But of course they are stronger than they are in the Freeza saga. And the funny thing about multiplication is that it grows exponentially. If Goku and Vegeta got 10 times stronger, that makes Vegetto 100 times stronger , if they got 31 times stronger, that makes Vegetto 1,000 times stronger...

I see nothing wrong with such a number for Vegetto.

CatouttaHell · Post by **CatouttaHell** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:57 pm

Rocketman wrote:Anybody who does is rating their fanwanked rules above flat statements.

And maybe is overrating Goku and Vegeta's base powers.

The Base Saiya-jins are above Piccolo in the Boo Arc according to many manga statements. Base Vegetto is weaker than Boohan and as such this multiplier for the Potara is wrong.

lash · Post by **lash** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:22 pm

CatouttaHell wrote:The Base Saiya-jins are above Piccolo in the Boo Arc according to many manga statements.

It's not fact. That's just how one interprets the statements.

CatouttaHell wrote:Base Vegetto is weaker than Boohan and as such this multiplier for the Potara is wrong.

Nothing states Base Vegetto is actually weaker than that Boo. It's only assumed/hinted that he couldn't do what he did as effectively if he wasn't a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, even if he was... it suddenly doesn't mean the multiplier is wrong.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:29 pm

Vegetto turned Super because he didn't realize how powerful he was.

CatouttaHell · Post by **CatouttaHell** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:55 am

lash wrote:It's not fact. That's just how one interprets the statements.

There's many statements that imply this and nothing that implies otherwise. Works for me.

lash wrote:Nothing states Base Vegetto is actually weaker than that Boo. It's only assumed/hinted that he couldn't do what he did as effectively if he wasn't a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, even if he was... it suddenly doesn't mean the multiplier is wrong.

He immediately went SSjin against Boohan without even trying to fight him in base. The multiplier is wrong and was never supposed to be right. It's their way of saying "yeah Vegetto is REALLY strong."

Rocketman wrote:Vegetto turned Super because he didn't realize how powerful he was.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:38 am

CatouttaHell wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Vegetto turned Super because he didn't realize how powerful he was.
:lol:

"I'm surprised myself that you were so helpless" - Vegetto.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:16 am

I am sorry, but are being ridiculous Rocketman. Why do you keep arguing about that?

Besides, that's conflicting from your part. You say you have no problem with Vegetto having the battle power of quadrillions, but are you in denial with Gohan-absorbed Evil Boo being on that level?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:42 am

Fox666 wrote:Besides, that's conflicting from your part. You say you have no problem with Vegetto having the battle power of quadrillions, but are you in denial with Gohan-absorbed Evil Boo being on that level?

I see nothing conflicting about that perspective. Super Vegetto was so overwhelmingly strong that he didn't even have to use his hands to smack Super Boo down.

hleV · Post by **hleV** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:35 am

It's true that Vegetto was THAT strong. We didn't even see him going all out. Hell, he seemed pretty playful because of his superiority to Boo, it's pretty possible that he went SSJ... you know... for the lulz.
Goku asked Elder Kaioshin if he and Vegeta should fuse as SSJs and Kaioshin told them to transform after fusing. That's exactly what Vegetto did, right?

The real problem is Kibitoshin. If Potara Fusion was a multiplier of fusees' Battle Powers, Kibitoshin would also be incredibly strong. Or it's a multiplier for Goku and Vegeta only due to their rivalry.

Kanzenshuu

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