Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
User avatar
Piccolo Daimao
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:23 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:56 pm

I think Piccolo may've had some idea of the concept of sex, since the child of Katatz had been living on Earth for at least 200 years before he became the God of Earth. But not much more than the basics.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

User avatar
kaialone
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:56 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by kaialone » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:17 pm

Eire wrote:Luckily he isn't a gossiper.

Seriously: I think he treated it like we see mating animals- nothing special, funny noises and moves, but it has nothing to do with us.
My classmates always burst into laughter when they see birds mate/fight on the streets.

On topic: I dnt think Toriyama put much thought into as to why hybrids are stronger,but I'm gonna go ahead and asume its because they just happen to inherit all the good parts from their parents and few of the bad parts?
-凯

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Bussani » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:49 pm

Sorata wrote:I really doubt hybrids are stronger than pure blooded Saiyans. The manga didn't state it in any volume.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 204 (DBZ 10), P12.1-2
Vegeta: “At any rate, the battle power of Kakarrot’s son is unusually high, even by the standards of Saiyan children.”
Nappa: “Maybe his reading was wrong.”
Vegeta: “No, it wasn’t wrong. Raditz really took a large amount of damage from that brat’s attack. It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid.”
Daizenshuu 4 wrote:The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Herms » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:00 pm

Bussani wrote:
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 204 (DBZ 10), P12.1-2
Vegeta: “At any rate, the battle power of Kakarrot’s son is unusually high, even by the standards of Saiyan children.”
Nappa: “Maybe his reading was wrong.”
Vegeta: “No, it wasn’t wrong. Raditz really took a large amount of damage from that brat’s attack. It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid.”
Nappa even responds by calling such hybrids "Super Saiyans", the first time that phrase ever appears.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

User avatar
Eire
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:58 pm
Location: The Promised Land
Contact:

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Eire » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:08 am

He saw ONE child and made a statement. How reliable is he?
Per aspera ad astra, man!

Women belong in the kitchen.
Men belong in the kitchen.
Everyone belongs in the kitchen, the kitchen has food

violadude
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:08 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by violadude » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:49 am

Eire wrote:He saw ONE child and made a statement. How reliable is he?
That makes sense from an in-universe perspective, but from an out of universe perspective I believe Toriyama is giving us information about the Saiya-jin race through Nappa. So while in reality it would be a wild assumption to base this claim from one child, it's something that the author makes the character say and obviously wants us to know so we should take it as fact. Thats my opinion anyway. After all, we can't have Tori-bot constantly coming in and interrupting the story to explain to us everything about the series. :P

User avatar
Eire
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:58 pm
Location: The Promised Land
Contact:

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Eire » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:48 am

it's something that the author makes the character say and obviously wants us to know so we should take it as fact.
That leads us to state where characters never lie, say stupid things, are misinformed or doesn't intend to tell the truth. That's convenient for Author and reader, but for long term just boring. Isn't unreliable narrator more interesting? We accidentally got a bit of unreliable narrative when it comes to Sayians history that makes it my favourite part.
Per aspera ad astra, man!

Women belong in the kitchen.
Men belong in the kitchen.
Everyone belongs in the kitchen, the kitchen has food

violadude
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:08 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by violadude » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:19 am

Eire wrote:
it's something that the author makes the character say and obviously wants us to know so we should take it as fact.
That leads us to state where characters never lie, say stupid things, are misinformed or doesn't intend to tell the truth. That's convenient for Author and reader, but for long term just boring. Isn't unreliable narrator more interesting? We accidentally got a bit of unreliable narrative when it comes to Sayians history that makes it my favourite part.
Well that's an interesting take on it. I wouldn't have thought about it that way. I still tend to believe what the characters say in a work of fiction as truth unless they are later contradicted.

In a way though, Nappa was contradicted, because Future Trunks was a Saiya-jin/Human hybrid and he didn't seem to have a particularly large potential, not compared to Gohan at least.

User avatar
Piccolo Daimao
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:23 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:45 am

Herms wrote:
Bussani wrote:
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 204 (DBZ 10), P12.1-2
Vegeta: “At any rate, the battle power of Kakarrot’s son is unusually high, even by the standards of Saiyan children.”
Nappa: “Maybe his reading was wrong.”
Vegeta: “No, it wasn’t wrong. Raditz really took a large amount of damage from that brat’s attack. It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid.”
Nappa even responds by calling such hybrids "Super Saiyans", the first time that phrase ever appears.
But he's not talking about the Super Saiyan of legend, is he? Because I think he uses "chou Saiya-jin" when referring to Gohan, and when the Super Saiyan legend is introduced, Vegeta says, "suupaa Saiya-jin".
violadude wrote:In a way though, Nappa was contradicted, because Future Trunks was a Saiya-jin/Human hybrid and he didn't seem to have a particularly large potential, not compared to Gohan at least.
Really? Trunks' only mentor was Gohan, yet he became a Super Saiyan and surpassed him, who'd been training for 13 yeas, in only 3 years.

Oh, and Goten and Trunks. 'Nuff said.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

violadude
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:08 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by violadude » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:20 am

I guess what I meant was that Trunks wasn't hinted at having a super hidden special power in the same way Gohan was.

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Michsi » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:23 am

Gohan does seem to be a special case. It isn't just his human/saiyan heritage , that incredible power he has seems to be something unique.

User avatar
Piccolo Daimao
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:23 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:24 am

violadude wrote:I guess what I meant was that Trunks wasn't hinted at having a super hidden special power in the same way Gohan was.
I suppose not, but that's just the way the story went. Gohan is a special case. His hidden power comes out when he's enraged.

But Trunks still had a large potential, because, in only 3 years, he surpassed a guy who'd been training for 13 years. That's pretty damn impressive. And he became a Super Saiyan and easily killed Freeza. Trunks' power was just overshadowed by Goku, Vegeta and, later, Gohan.
Last edited by Piccolo Daimao on Sun May 01, 2011 7:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Bussani » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:19 pm

Trunks was a Super Saiyan who could beat the former strongest being in the universe with ease at the age where Goku was still training with Mr. Popo. He may not have had the enormous naturally power that only peeked out when it felt like it that Gohan had, but I have to wonder if, even with the right training, Goku, Vegeta, and any other Saiyan could have become that powerful at that age.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
Super Saiyan Turlast x4
I Live Here
Posts: 3411
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:30 pm

That's a good question. When you think about it, Goku basically had better training than Trunks ever had in his life up to the arrival on namek, but that Goku is still much weaker than Trunks by default, without even including Super Saiyan into the equation.

To be honest, if Goku and Vegeta never powered-up through healing as much as they did, they'd be incredibly weak. That's why I don't think any amount of special training would ever put them around that sorta level at that age.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

User avatar
jackjack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:03 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by jackjack » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:24 am

rereboy wrote: They achieved and mastered Super Sayan by themselves at the age of 7 with no real training, just light training and by messing around.
I believe it's mentioned that you just have to stay in the form long enough to the point where you get used to it, right? So for all we know, they did just that while always messing around as Super Saiyans, without knowing it would help them in any way.

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14505
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:00 am

My best guess is that the form just comes more easily and naturally because they were born with it. But at the same time I wouldn't count on them having to amount of total and absolute control that their elders attained from specific training for it.
[ BlueSky | Bsky: DBS Plots | DeviantArt | Twitter (Depreciated) ]

[PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader | Switch FC: SW-4304-7361-2824 | ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone") ]

Powar Levuls! — DBZ | Movies & Specials | GT

User avatar
jackjack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:03 am

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by jackjack » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:58 pm

What specific training?

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14505
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:34 pm

The whole, "we'll stay in our Super Saiyan forms for as long as we possibly can until it becomes like our normal, stress-free state" procedure. Calling it "training" may be a bit of a stretch, admittedly, but it still strikes me as something that takes focused effort and dedication.
[ BlueSky | Bsky: DBS Plots | DeviantArt | Twitter (Depreciated) ]

[PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader | Switch FC: SW-4304-7361-2824 | ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone") ]

Powar Levuls! — DBZ | Movies & Specials | GT

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10799
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by Rocketman » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:29 pm

Eire wrote:2nd scenario: What is he doing to his woman? She screams in pain!
Boy have you got things backwards.

User avatar
SylentEcho
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 818
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Why exactly are hybrids stronger?

Post by SylentEcho » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:53 pm

Vegeta states that Saiyans retain their youth and their hair doesn't grow more than a certain length because their bodies are suited for battle and because they're a warrior race.

So the fact that Trunks', Goten's and Gohan's hair grows like humans and the fact that they age normally suggests that their bodies aren't designed for just battle like pure Saiyans. So how come hybrids are still stronger and have more potential?

Post Reply