Fusion multiplier

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, I dunno. That seems a bit assumptive, if you ask me.

However, it fits like a glove with Potara > Dance. Or you could always go with Rocketman's "Vegetto's clueless about this own power" theory.

Well, Vegetto was expected to be able to defeat Boo. I mean, the original plan was a fusion between Goku and Gohan, but even still. It could just be that they thought Vegetto was surprised that he was overwhelming Boo so much.

Even Goku himself said that Gotenks was a gamble, meaning he didn't know for certain that he could defeat Boo.

The same Goku who said a hypothetical Gogeta could defeat the Boo they were inside of, mind you. So no, it doesn't mean that at all; the "gamble" is simply a response to the comment Piccolo makes earlier on the kids having to perfect fusion within two days. Goku's comments make it pretty obvious, too.

Goku: “With these two, if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat him within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

OK, fair enough. I'm just saying that Goku doesn't know the exact power a Metamoran Fusion would have, and Vegetto was just surprised at how helpless Boo was, so much so that he could toy with him without using his hands.

[Rocketman]

I don't know why it's such a problem. It doesn't say that Potara fusion is A times B, it says Vegetto (and only Vegetto) is.

That would be the same as saiyans that the Super Saiyan or Kaio-ken have difference multiplies for other characters besides Goku...

Except it's outright said that Super Saiyan is x50. Nothing ever says the Potara is AxB.

Also I do think that the Super Saiyan increase varies wildly and isn't a flat constant x50, so....

[Fox666]

Everytime the guides made a reference for the Super Saiyan multiplier, it was somehow related to Goku. Even the Super Exciting Guide used images of Goku for Super Saiyan.

And that's the same reason why they talked about Vegetto alone. Because they were covering Goku power-ups.

[jackjack]

I'm saying he went Super because Buu was right in his face attacking, stayed Super because why not, and was then surprised as he got a feel for his power in relation to Buu's.

I'm sorry, this just doesn't fly. You're saying he doesn't know about his own power, yet he knows base isn't enough. If he really didn't know about his own power, then he should've tested his base power first, because why not?

It could just be that they thought Vegetto was surprised that he was overwhelming Boo so much.

Which still suggests Vegetto > Gogeta.

Vegetto was just surprised at how helpless Boo was, so much so that he could toy with him without using his hands.

Except the comment came before that.

[Fox666]

I'm sorry, this just doesn't fly. You're saying he doesn't know about his own power, yet he knows base isn't enough. If he really didn't know about his own power, then he should've tested his base power first, because why not?

Or, if he wanted to use all of his power, transform in Super Saiyan 2 or 3 right at the start...

[Rocketman]

I'm sorry, this just doesn't fly. You're saying he doesn't know about his own power, yet he knows base isn't enough.

No, I'm saying he doesn't know his own power, so he fears base isn't enough.

[jackjack]

Yet, he doesn't fear if SSJ isn't enough. If he didn't know, though, he would've powered up to the max to take on Boo's attack.

[Sorata]

I have a question: is the multiplication formula in the guidebook written "AxB" or "A*B" ? Because only one symbol is a simple multiplication. The first one is usually defined as the cross product. That would suggest that Veggeto isn't a simple multiplication of Goku and Vegeta but there's something more to him. The definition includes the angle beetween the vectors - in this light we could assume the theoretical rivalry boost (mentioned by Rou Dai Kaioshin) as the missing factor in this equation. The fusion is multiplying warrior A's and B's power and adds a boost depending of the "angle" beetween their characters or something. I know i might be assuming too much but it was just a quick thought. For example - Veggeto exists also in the magic realm and is the only one (in the series) capable of preserving his conciousness and awareness being a candy Goku nor Vegeta don't have that ability so potara fusion must be more.

[Kaboom]

It's a big ol' 'X' for multiplication, if memory serves.

[Fox666]

Yes, it's a "X"

[ggf31416]

If we assume Earth's population = 6 billion and average power level = 5 (without counting Z-fighters) the genki dama would be equivalent to 30 billion (from general population) + whatever came from the Z-fighters. I believe that most of the energy for the genki dama came from Earth's general population, so the genki dama can't be equivalent to more than 30 billion * 2 = 60 billion
That figure is reduced by the fact that people cannot give all their energy because they are not trained and their could die if they give all their energy, as well by any transmission losses.
I don't think Buu could be killed by an attack equivalent to 60 billion if it was stronger, so kid Buu cannot have a power level above 60 billions.
That should give some idea about the fusion power levels.

[Rocketman]

Yes, it's a "X"

But that screws with the numbers I made up!

[Fox666]

You are no one to joke about it, since you made clear that you don't accept Kibitoshin battle power...

If we assume Earth's population = 6 billion and average power level = 5 (without counting Z-fighters) the genki dama would be equivalent to 30 billion (from general population) + whatever came from the Z-fighters. I believe that most of the energy for the genki dama came from Earth's general population, so the genki dama can't be equivalent to more than 30 billion * 2 = 60 billion
That figure is reduced by the fact that people cannot give all their energy because they are not trained and their could die if they give all their energy, as well by any transmission losses.
I don't think Buu could be killed by an attack equivalent to 60 billion if it was stronger, so kid Buu cannot have a power level above 60 billions.
That should give some idea about the fusion power levels.

That's very interesting!

[hleV]

I've thought about that before, but not about Genkidama, but how much power Imperfect Cell had gotten through absorbing humans.

[Fox666]

I don't think that the energy no.19 and 20 absorbs or Cell equal to power. While the Genki Dama simply put all energy together, no.19 and 20 use energy as a power source (such as gasoline for vehicles), and Cell on the other hand develop hsi own biology (and no.17 and 18 clearly aren't "added" to his power).

[Kaboom]

Well the Androids are stated and shown to increase their own power and capabilities by absorbing Ki, but I do agree about Cell. It's not so much that he's merely adding the Androids' power to his own as that they're components that Cell needs to complete his biological growth... somehow.

[hleV]

It makes sense either way for Cell.

[hleV]

Okay. I went through Herms' Strength Checker to figure out that battle power * battle power is ultimately exclusive for Goku and Vegeta (and likely anyone who are rivals) and in no way can apply for Kibitoshin. Yes, it's the so called rivalry boost and Vegetto's battle power is easily 250.000.000.000 (as long as the SEG didn't lie about it being a multiplier of battle powers). In base form.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”

Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Basically Vegetto went Super Saiyan for the lulz, but didn't really need that. Normal Potara Fusion when fusees aren't rivals is possibly around Metamorian Fusion's strength, although that's my speculation only.