Moderation Rant

[SSVegetto]

As with past discussions, you seem to be incapable of recognizing what the point of any given thread is, and instead personalize it about yourself and your preferences.

This isn't about, "What lines in the original Japanese version of the franchise suck / don't work / are out of character / whatever." If you'd like to have that discussion, please feel free to start it up in a separate thread.

Did you look at the title? This one is "Which dialogue changes do you think hurt the dub the most?" Do you have anything to toss into that discussion? If not, I'm going to ask you to simply not post. Your poorly-written, scatterbrained, defensive posts do little to further the conversation of folks who legitimately want to dive deeper into the rabbit hole (which includes dub fans, mind you).

This will be your last free warning across the entire forum. I will ask that moderators begin warning your account from here on out.

I'm simply disagreeing with what they are stating they think are hurting the dub. So what now, I'm not allowed to disagree or make comparisons between how that might compare to the Japanese dub. Are you serious? Feel free to just ban me at this point. I don't really want to be part of a forum that is run by a Nazi type person such as yourself. I don't care if they moderate and warn me go ahead. I pretty much had enough of you jumping in or one of your moderators every time , the debate gets a little heated. Because I express myself pretty much differently. I have talked to other people on this forum in private message how they afraid to even just speak because they are worried they will get bitched at for the dumbest thing. People thanking me for doing so. Thinking if they even ask something they will get banned.

This is what happened anyways in a nutshell: Which dialogue changes do you think hurt the dub the most?
> People responded and provided examples etc etc,
> I didn't agree with what those examples and I didn't think they hurt the dub that much, so I explained why.
> People responded to me, so I provided examples as to why the Japanese dub compared to that can be just as bad.

So basically I never did go off topic. You are basically saying I shouldn't disagree with it. Or freely add points on how I want to. And I say that is flat out crazy. Go ahead, feel free to ban me at any point. I'm not going to post in a place where I can't freely disagree with people. Yo, heck you maybe even doing me a favor. I never did like you Herms, Hujio or fanboy extremists of Dragonball. I actually just about had it with you for the last warning you gave me back then, when you white knighted your friends basically and called me out to be a Son of a bitch, with a bunch of insults to go with it in private message. (But I held my tongue on that one). So I pretty much had enough of your insults. I had enough of you anyways.


I might as well show it people this what I wanted to send you way back when:

The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.

This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 42#p369742

You are incoherent, rude, illogical, and out-of-line. You appear to be incapable of politely and respectfully conversing with your peers. Any further posts of this nature will be grounds for immediate and permanent banning.

Wow, then enjoy your own private fantasy world @ daizex then VegettoEX, along with your fans. Day in and day out talking about DBZ. I did not flame your fans. I flamed their opinions. And it may have sounded rude to them, yes. But grow up, the world doesn't revolve around DBZ. I did not speak illogically, I brought up stuff people didn't like to hear. That some act like elitist. My words are illogical, huh? More like you don't agree with the stuff I'm spouting. So then you call me illogical instead of acting like a man and just taking some constructive criticism. I stated my feelings and tell things how it is. You don't have anything to back up your insults to me either. And if you can't handle what I say. Just ban me.


I take a stand, I don't care who it is, or who you are. Or that you are owner of this website. You can't even handle constructive criticism to your own website. No doubt. I replied back to your fans to make them understand what I was getting at, you take that as a no no. So what? I did not flame them. I will be happy that I'm banned. But I will not be looked down upon just for stating what I feel. That is one thing I will not tolerate. You can stick that warning up your butt and around the corner. So go ahead do as you wish. Don't waste your time warning me. Because if I can't speak how I feel about a certain something in a certain thread , then it's going to happen again. I will be sending this message out on the forum. So they can note how your elitism attitude rubs off at people towards anyone that has constructive criticism against some of your fans.


Anyways there was at least one person that took what I said with a grain of salt, and acknowledged he knew what I meant. Mr.MARK. And that's good enough for me.

I rather go to a forum, where moderators do not rule over people like elitist, so you can't use an excuse as a moderator to try to threaten me. No, you aren't above anyone else, just because you own website. That doesn't make you a better human being.

I did not flame anyone. I said what I feel that people are being elitist with their opinions about DBZ. Does that mean I think any less of them as a human being, no. I'm attacking their opinions. I'm stating how I feel. And if you can't handle that on this forum. Then very well, ban me. Because what you are giving me is a cop out excuse of what you don't like what I'm saying. You on the other hand insulted the way I think. By calling me illogical. That makes it personal. That I'm a sub-par human being. That I don't think right. So, I'm not going to let you get away with you belittling me, and me just taking it like that me replying back. No!

I'm done with this elitist opinionated forum.

[VegettoEX]

Off-topic rant split from otherwise on-going thread. Moderation team will respond if necessary.

[TripleRach]

You clearly don't get it. The problem isn't that you disagreed. The problem is that you went into the thread and posted giant rants saying the thread itself was stupid. So you're actually the one being elitist and trying to tell people what they can and can't talk about.

Questioning what someone says is not the same thing as questioning them for talking about it at all.

[Kaboom]

Just ban me...
I'm done with this elitist opinionated forum.

We're sorry. The Administrator you have sassed and called a "Nazi" is not currently available.

Your ban has been redirected to a secondary Moderator.

Goodbye!

[VegettoEX]

I didn't necessarily mean to keep this split-off thread locked, but I was taking care of it on my phone on the train ride home, and it just wasn't optimal that way .

Not a whole lot to say. I guess I need to apologize to the community at large for letting one of these types of folks through the cracks for so long. Unfortunately, it happens. Fortunately, it's as rare as a shiny Pokemon.

There's not really any banning that ever happens here. I'm pretty tolerant, perhaps to a fault, as I've been told time and time again -- folks get plenty of extra chances, as was seen in this instance with someone who had multiple warnings to stay on-topic and polite to their fellow fans, but could rarely do so (which spilled over into the chat as well as here on the forum). In pretty much every single case, reminding someone to be pleasant is all it takes for an, "Oh man, sorry about that!" response, and everyone carries on their merry way. It's one of the things I appreciate about you all so much -- in general, you're the nicest bunch o' mo-fo fans a guy could ask for.

What really sucks is that, deep down, this person probably had something decent to say. Sadly, it was wrapped up in defensive lash-outs that is simply not tolerated. Are we "elitist"...? Sure, if you define "elitist" as being asked, and agreeing up front, to conduct yourself as a super-shonen, polite, friendly, conversational, and intriguing individual. That can really be difficult for a small minority of folks on the Internet, but 99.99% of everyone else seems to scrape by just fine.

Props to the moderation team for basically not needing to do a whole Hell of a lot -- that speaks volumes about both them and everyone else.

[MetaMoss]

SSVegetto, while you may have expressed your opinions, which is no crime, you did express them in way that did not add to the topic of "Which dialogue changes do you think hurt the dub the most?" You created your own "Well, you people are so stupid because the original Japanese did it too!" sub-topic. While the Japanese version did use corny jokes from time to time, they sure didn't use them as many times as the FUNimation dub did. Now, calling VegettoEX a Nazi, I find that to downplaying what the Nazis really did. Mike doesn't go around proclaiming that the Jewish people caused all our problems, nor does he torture them in concentration camps, nor does he endorse or respect Hitler. If I catch Mike doing any of those things, then I would probably call him a Nazi. But calling somebody a Nazi because they hurt your precious feelings because you didn't follow the rules that you agreed to (whether you did or not consciously) is very childish and makes you look like a jackass. You're not 8 years old, so quit acting like one. If you want to leave, feel free, because we're not gonna miss you.

[Castor Troy]

Those Kanzentai guys are quite the extremists.

[GamingBuddha]

I never did like you Herms, Hujio or fanboy extremists of Dragonball.

I love how Hujio was added to the extremists .

On another note, I kinda sympathize with him. While I might not agree with all (or most) of the stuff that he said, I understand how he feels. I haven't been a poster here for long, but I have been reading here for a while. I used to feel similarly about a lot of the people here, but what you have to understand is that this site is biased towards the Japanese version for a good reason. It's not to be obnoxious or because Japan is awesome, but it's because that is the original version. They don't hate dubs or English, it's just that the dub is not an accurate representation of the original version. There are many people here who praise the Kai dub since it fixes a lot of the problems of the original Funi dub. If you think it's bad here, you should check out other forums. I've seen people who refuse to buy Funimation DVD's of One Piece simply because there is a dub included on the DVD (even though the One Piece dub is actually good!).

[Herms]

They don't hate dubs or English, it's just that the dub is not an accurate representation of the original version. There are many people here who praise the Kai dub since it fixes a lot of the problems of the original Funi dub.

Not to mention that we've got an English translation of the manga that for the most part never had those problems to begin with.

[roidrage]

That's true. But it's not fair to go around telling people what they can and can't do, either. Like "You can't call this by its dub name because it's wrong," or "You can't say the Japanese version doesn't fit because it's the original".

Why can't they do that? It's not a crime; it's not even in violation of this forum's rules. Make a new rule or update the word filter if it bugs you that much, but forbidding someone from doing something when you have no way to stop them just seems silly.

[Herms]

That's true. But it's not fair to go around telling people what they can and can't do, either. Like "You can't call this by its dub name because it's wrong," or "You can't say the Japanese version doesn't fit because it's the original".

It'd be easier to make sense of this if you made it clearer who you were talking to and what your were talking about.

That said, "can't" can mean a lot of things, not simply "it's against the rules". For instance, I might note that "you can't say Goku has four arms". Obviously in one sense you can say that, in as much as nobody will stop you. But it's an obviously false statement, so you "can't say it" in that sense. When somebody goes "well, you can't say I didn't try", they don't mean that it's against the law, they mean that it's inaccurate.

In that latter sense, no, you really can't say "the Japanese version doesn't fit because it's the original", because it's a logical contradiction. The original version can't "not fit", because it's the thing everything else is fitted against. It can't not fit itself.

[roidrage]

That's true. But it's not fair to go around telling people what they can and can't do, either. Like "You can't call this by its dub name because it's wrong," or "You can't say the Japanese version doesn't fit because it's the original".

It'd be easier to make sense of this if you made it clearer who you were talking to and what your were talking about.

That said, "can't" can mean a lot of things, not simply "it's against the rules". For instance, I might note that "you can't say Goku has four arms". Obviously in one sense you can say that, in as much as nobody will stop you. But it's an obviously false statement, so you "can't say it" in that sense. When somebody goes "well, you can't say I didn't try", they don't mean that it's against the law, they mean that it's inaccurate.

In that latter sense, no, you really can't say "the Japanese version doesn't fit because it's the original", because it's a logical contradiction. The original version can't "not fit", because it's the thing everything else is fitted against. It can't not fit itself.

Take an example: "You can't say Goku's Japanese voice doesn't fit the character, because it's the character's voice." That's not correct. It's the character's original and many would say appropriate voice, but it's not the voice. It's one of many, and if you don't think it fits Goku, you have every right to say so. People always counter this by saying "Well, that's like saying my voice doesn't fit me". That argument never works, because you're comparing reality to voice acting.

As for the Japanese version "not fitting", just because it's the original, universal, unmodified version doesn't mean it fits a viewer's conception of what the show "is". That can mean different things to different people. A dub fan can say "the Japanese version doesn't fit", because they have a different idea of what does fit. Viewers are the ones who make the call on the product, despite everything that has been put into it before that point, and to say your version fits just because it's the original and what you prefer comes across as arrogance. Besides, the dub is hardly based around the original version; it takes so many liberties it might as well be its own thing.
"Original" and "viewer's perception" don't have to go hand in hand.

[VegettoEX]

Like I do often, I'll kindly ask that things stay on-topic .

(I also don't understand the flip-flopping of both defending FUNimation's dub and then saying it's almost as if it's completely different from the original version it's... not?... based on, but again, a different subject matter.)

I mostly feel that there isn't a whole lot to say, here. Anyone is free to say whatever on Earth they want to say, so long as it's in a friendly way and you're open to discussion about it. This one particular person was incapable of doing that on a regular basis (to an unfathomable degree, and never once took their moderation and reminders in stride). It's rare, but sometimes it happens, and they tend to not stick around all on their own accord. In this case, what was done was done. Sorry you all had to watch it play out, but thank goodness it's genuine rare one-of-a-kind A++++ would recommend again.

[roidrage]

Like I do often, I'll kindly ask that things stay on-topic .

(I also don't understand the flip-flopping of both defending FUNimation's dub and then saying it's almost as if it's completely different from the original version it's... not?... based on, but again, a different subject matter.)

I mostly feel that there isn't a whole lot to say, here. Anyone is free to say whatever on Earth they want to say, so long as it's in a friendly way and you're open to discussion about it. This one particular person was incapable of doing that on a regular basis (to an unfathomable degree, and never once took their moderation and reminders in stride). It's rare, but sometimes it happens, and they tend to not stick around all on their own accord. In this case, what was done was done. Sorry you all had to watch it play out, but thank goodness it's genuine rare one-of-a-kind A++++ would recommend again.

I would, but...is there even a topic I'm supposed to be staying on? If there is, I meant to stay on it. Help me out here.
(I'm also not defending the dub itself, just peoples' right to say what they wish. I don't wish to get things more off-topic (if there was a topic to begin with), but italicized asides like that make me feel like I'm still being talked to, and this thread isn't locked yet.)

[Drabaz]

I'm also not defending the dub itself, just peoples' right to say what they wish.

Anyone is free to say whatever on Earth they want to say, so long as it's in a friendly way and you're open to discussion about it.

That's pretty much what I'm getting from this thread. SSVegetto just cleary didn't understand that.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I'm also not defending the dub itself, just peoples' right to say what they wish.

Anyone is free to say whatever on Earth they want to say, so long as it's in a friendly way and you're open to discussion about it.

That's pretty much what I'm getting from this thread. SSVegetto just cleary didn't understand that.

See, I get that dub fans are welcomed and everything, but I can understand why new users would feel that they aren't. They are coming to a board where a lot of the names they write are changed, because it fits better with the board's theme.

It sort of comes across like "Dub fans are welcome, but only if they talk as if they are Japanese fans."

I know that's not the case, but I'm sure it will feel intrusive to see a post you've made has had things changed in it, simply because it doesn't match the original version. No, the names aren't correct, but sure the fans of the original will understand what they mean, while many dub fans may find themselves confused, which I have seen several times on this forum.

This is not me trying to stir stuff up, it's just me adding my two cents to a forum that is usually very good, save for the behavior of a select few people I take issue with.

[Eddie]

The problem with that logic is that many members here actually would be confused by dub names. There are a decent amount of members here that are not located in countries that received the Funi dub. To them, Fäsha and Hërcule would be confusing. Selypa and Mr. Satan, on the other hand, are THE names of the characters. It just makes more sense to the community.

[Casual Matt]

You know, I understand going to a message board and seeing that the community isn't right for you or the moderation is not run the way you would like. That's happened to me more often than not.

What I don't understand is sticking around and ranting about it.

I mean, he even pointed out his intentions to leave, so why not just do so quietly and retain some dignity.

Oh well. At the end of the day there's an online community for anybody, but no single one for everybody.

But kudos to VegettoEX for maintaining one of the best around.

[laserkid]

What I find hilarious about this whole thing is that Daizenshuu EX is one of the most inclusive fan forums I have EVER been to. You won't get in trouble for differing opinions, you won't get in trouble for liking the dub, you won't get in trouble for NOT liking the dub, and you won't get in trouble for making wild theories. The only time I've ever seen someone get in trouble on this forum is when someone makes an ass of themselves in trying to make their point, and even then I've never seen someone get immediatly banned for that unless it was EXTREMELY bad.

For all the obvious prefference of the Japanese original on this forum (myself included), it's NOT against the rules to post about the dub - even if it's a positive statment therof. You are also not penalized for using dub names, though for clarity sake (as this is an international community), they may be auto filtered to their original names. If you think about it, if this place really wanted to penalize dub fans, then they would not be filtering the names automatically. Instead, there would be administration warnings for using the dub names.

[MetaMoss]

If certain people get so angry about their dub names getting filtered, maybe there should be disclaimer on the sign-up page that kinda would go like this:

"The Daizenshuu EX forums have many users from around the world. For the sake of simplicity, we ask that you use terms from the original Japanese version whenever possible. We use filters to change the terms from the domestic versions of Dragon Ball to the Japanese original so it won't confuse international fans. Don't take it personally, we're just here to keep everything simple and accessible."

Maybe that might keep people from getting so angry at the filters.