Ever proven that (X) Buu is weaker/stronger than (Y) Buu?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

There seems to be a lot of people who go so far as to say that fat Boo and evil grey Boo are more powerful than kid Boo because evil Boo landed more punches on good Boo whereas kid Boo had a harder time. The way I see this is that kid Boo could have taken out the good Boo at the beginning of the fight if he wanted to but it was in his nature to torture him the whole fight.

I know that this debate has been going on for god knows how long, but I am interested in getting some of your opinions on the whole topic.

[Savage68]

I don't think it can be "proven," per se, because nothing in the series or in the series' supplementary material has even given an explicit / non-incredibly vague answer on the subject, and any discussion among fans is purely subjective.

[Herms]

The gray, pure evil Boo is said by the narrator in the manga to have taken "most of the power" when Boo split up into good and evil halves. That would mean he's weaker than the initial fat Boo, the one who comes out of the ball and fights Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 Goku. So make of that what you will.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

True that. But what really pisses me right off is that fans go so far to say that it is a proven fact that kid boo is the 2nd weakest boo.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

The gray, pure evil Boo is said by the narrator in the manga to have taken "most of the power" when Boo split up into good and evil halves. That would mean he's weaker than the initial fat Boo, the one who comes out of the ball and fights Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 Goku. So make of that what you will.

Yes I already knew that fatso got weakened when he released the pure evil within him. But what I am trying to figure out is if kid boo exceeds both of them. I mean Son Goku did flat out say that when he fought the fat majin boo at level 3, he could have beaten him but wanted gotenks to handle him. But with kid boo, both him and vegeta underestimated the pink demon and even regretted crushing the potara.

[Bussani]

Yes I already knew that fatso got weakened when he released the pure evil within him. But what I am trying to figure out is if kid boo exceeds both of them. I mean Son Goku did flat out say that when he fought the fat majin boo at level 3, he could have beaten him but wanted gotenks to handle him. But with kid boo, both him and vegeta underestimated the pink demon and even regretted crushing the potara.

It's certainly possible Kid Buu was stronger than the original version of Fat Buu. It's implied that Buff Buu was incredibly strong, which would mean that Dai Kaioshin's influence made Buu weaker, as well as "easier to control". Of course, it's hard to make a comparison; Goku said he probably could have beaten Fat Buu, but the big reason he isn't able to finish off Kid Buu in the end is that Super Saiyan 3 eats up all of his energy faster than he expected. For all we know, the same thing could have happened if he'd tried to fight the original Fat Buu without his afterlife stamina.

So yeah, it's all very up in the air.

[Fox666]

The gray, pure evil Boo is said by the narrator in the manga to have taken "most of the power" when Boo split up into good and evil halves. That would mean he's weaker than the initial fat Boo, the one who comes out of the ball and fights Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 Goku. So make of that what you will.

I don't know, but besides what the narrator says, I am not very tempted to think that the fat Majin Boo looses his power when he was fighting the Pure Boo.

Gohan energy as a Super Saiyan 2 filled almost half of Boo's energy meter. Considering Goku and Vegeta are also said to be stronger than Gohan, the fat Majin Boo should be about twice strong as Goku and Vegeta as Super Saiyans 2.



Maybe I shouldn't try to measure a character strength in the Boo saga, but that would suit Super Exciting Guide statement that the Super Saiyan 3 quadruplicates Goku's power.

Well, my point is that Goku and Vegeta had some hope that "Mister Boo" could help against the Pure Majin Boo, however if the fat guy power decresed (less than 1/2) shouldn't that make him useless in the battle, since Vegeta couldn't do anything? Well, at least he could retaliate and lasted some time, unlike Vegeta.

Or is my entire post pure battle power nonsense?

[Bussani]

Gohan energy as a Super Saiyan 2 filled almost half of Boo's energy meter. Considering Goku and Vegeta are also said to be stronger than Gohan, the fat Majin Boo should be twice strong as Goku and Vegeta as Super Saiyans 2.

It's possible that Buu's strength isn't equal to the energy needed to revive him. Kind of like how Dende can heal Ultimate Gohan even though Ultimate Gohan is way stronger than Dende, you know? Not to say that it isn't also possible you're right.

[Adamant]

Well, let's go over what these forms actually are.

First off, we got the original Boo, who's an essentially pure evil artificial being. He increases his power through absorption of the South Kaioushin, then again by absorbing the Supreme Kaioushin, who also influences his personality and turns him somewhat more controllable.
Following that, he expels all the evil in his body, splitting himself into a good and an evil form, whereupon the evil form, obviously stronger than the good form, reabsorbs the good form and gains all his power back, but is now controlled by his evil thoughts.

Following the removal of the "good form" inside him, he then devolves into his original form... though the only way this makes sense is if what looked like the good form wasn't the exact same being as what got absorbed, but some sort of mass center for everything that wasn't his original form.

So that means the "evil gray Boo" is the evil side of the mostly evil being that absorbed two Kaioushin, while the original Boo is the original being before he absorbed anyone. And being that the original Boo was pretty much pure evil in the first place, the "evil gray Boo" should have most of his powers plus any power obtained from the absorptions that didn't go to the "good side", and he should then be considerably stronger than the original Boo.

Not that any of this really matters, but there you got it.

[SuperForteX]

He increases his power through absorption of the South Kaioushin

Where is this stated?

[Adamant]

He increases his power through absorption of the South Kaioushin

Where is this stated?

When the East Kaioushin is explaining Boo's backstory right as he devolves into his original form. You know, the place where all the other stuff relating to this subject is stated as well.

[SuperForteX]

He increases his power through absorption of the South Kaioushin

Where is this stated?

When the East Kaioushin is explaining Boo's backstory right as he devolves into his original form. You know, the place where all the other stuff relating to this subject is stated as well.

Kaioshin specifically mentions the absorption of South Kaioshin made Buu stronger? Do you have a specific panel/page number?

[Adamant]

Kaioshin specifically mentions the absorption of South Kaioshin made Buu stronger? Do you have a specific panel/page number?

Yup.

---South Kaioshin-absorbed--- [#BO3#BOO#SKS]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P1.3
Context: evil Boo continues to revert to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “…H-hey…He’s changed into an awfully bulky guy…”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Kaioshin: “…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

[Fox666]

Well, let's go over what these forms actually are.

First off, we got the original Boo, who's an essentially pure evil artificial being. He increases his power through absorption of the South Kaioushin, then again by absorbing the Supreme Kaioushin, who also influences his personality and turns him somewhat more controllable.
Following that, he expels all the evil in his body, splitting himself into a good and an evil form, whereupon the evil form, obviously stronger than the good form, reabsorbs the good form and gains all his power back, but is now controlled by his evil thoughts.

Following the removal of the "good form" inside him, he then devolves into his original form... though the only way this makes sense is if what looked like the good form wasn't the exact same being as what got absorbed, but some sort of mass center for everything that wasn't his original form.

So that means the "evil gray Boo" is the evil side of the mostly evil being that absorbed two Kaioushin, while the original Boo is the original being before he absorbed anyone. And being that the original Boo was pretty much pure evil in the first place, the "evil gray Boo" should have most of his powers plus any power obtained from the absorptions that didn't go to the "good side", and he should then be considerably stronger than the original Boo.

Not that any of this really matters, but there you got it.

Well, you got something there. However it's quite hard to explain.


Here is some ideas

• fat Majin Boo: Majin Boo + [South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin]

• good part of Majin Boo: Majin Boo + [South Kaioshin ½ + Dai Kaioshin ½]
(note: if the Evil Boo reverted to Pure Boo, that would mean each of the parts is made of a full Pure Boo)

• evil part of Majin Boo: Majin Boo + [South Kaioshin ½ + Dai Kaioshin ½]
(note: he still has traces of Dai Kaioshin, such as clothes, etc)

• Evil Boo: Majin Boo + [Majin Boo + South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin]

• bulky Majin Boo: Majin Boo + [Majin Boo + South Kaioshin]
(note: supposedly he gradually lost every one of his parts, thus he would still have two Majin Boos inside him, if that makes any sense)

• Pure Boo: Majin Boo

And by consequence, we get that Mister Boo is the same as the fat Majin Boo, rather than merely the "good part"
• "Mister Boo": Majin Boo + [South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin]

The strength of each Majin Boo is quite easy to explain, all you need to do is add a positive (or negative in Dai Kaioshin case) value for each part.

[SuperForteX]

Kaioshin specifically mentions the absorption of South Kaioshin made Buu stronger? Do you have a specific panel/page number?

Yup.

---South Kaioshin-absorbed--- [#BO3#BOO#SKS]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P1.3
Context: evil Boo continues to revert to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “…H-hey…He’s changed into an awfully bulky guy…”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Kaioshin: “…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

'Grats... You've proven that Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu. And nothing else. Now, what proof do you have that he's stronger than Kid Buu?

[Fox666]

That Goku was scared of Evil Boo¹ but not of Pure Boo...

1. This was mentioned many and many times in the manga

[rereboy]

Kaioshin specifically mentions the absorption of South Kaioshin made Buu stronger? Do you have a specific panel/page number?

Yup.

---South Kaioshin-absorbed--- [#BO3#BOO#SKS]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P1.3
Context: evil Boo continues to revert to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “…H-hey…He’s changed into an awfully bulky guy…”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Kaioshin: “…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

'Grats... You've proven that Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu. And nothing else. Now, what proof do you have that he's stronger than Kid Buu?

Goku stated in the manga (while inside Super Buu's body) that if he and Vegeta faced Super Buu without fusing they would simply be killed (and he look nervous/worried while saying it).

Then, when Super Buu reverts to Kid Buu, Goku is way more confident and even states, after fighting Kid Buu for a while and testing his power, that he will be able to beat and kill Kid Buu if he is able to focus all of his energy as a SSJ3, which only fails because he didn't anticipate that, while being alive, it would be much more difficult for him to power up his SSJ3.

So, take Goku's statements and opinion as you will.

Personally, I have Kid Buu at 4rd weakest Buu. The weakest is Good Buu. The second weakest is Grey Evil Buu. The third weakest is Fat (original) Buu. And then Kid Buu.

Also, its worth noting that on this matter, the anime and the manga are fairly different. The anime tries to pass off Kid Buu as the strongest Buu, implying just that in some statements, but, in the manga (which is the original work), these statements don't exist, and the most solid piece of evidence we have are the statements made by Goku that I mentioned.

So, like I said, take that as you will.

Also, only Dai Kaioshin is implied to have weaken/tamed Buu, so I would assume that when Buu absorbed South Kaioshin, like usual, Buu became stronger.

[SuperForteX]

'Grats... You've proven that Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu. And nothing else. Now, what proof do you have that he's stronger than Kid Buu?

Goku stated in the manga (while inside Super Buu's body) that if he and Vegeta faced Super Buu without fusing they would simply be killed (and he look nervous/worried while saying it).

Then, when Super Buu reverts to Kid Buu, Goku is way more confident and even states, after fighting Kid Buu for a while and testing his power, that he will be able to beat and kill Kid Buu if he is able to focus all of his energy as a SSJ3, which only fails because he didn't anticipate that, while being alive, it would be much more difficult for him to power up his SSJ3.

All of which is still irrelevant to the point I'm making...

Also, only Dai Kaioshin is implied to have weaken/tamed Buu, so I would assume that when Buu absorbed South Kaioshin, like usual, Buu became stronger.

Thank you. You would assume this. Meaning, that it's not fact. Hence, the point I've been trying to make the entire time. My own flawed assumption was that I could be subtle on this matter, and people would see what I was getting at.

[rereboy]

I think most people get what you are saying, but there simply isn't any hard evidence regarding that.

The most logical assumption (to me) is what I stated because, otherwise, Kaioshin would also state that Buu became "better" when he absorbed South Kaioshin and he only mentions that regarding Dai Kaioshin, which of course would mean that Buff Buu has more power than Kid Buu. Also, like I said, Goku implies that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu. And, like it has already been mentioned to you, Super Buu seemed to gain power when he temporarily reverted to Buff Buu.

So, if Buff Buu seemed to have more power than Super Buu, if Goku implied that Super Buu was stronger than Kid Buu, and if Kaioshin only mentioned that Buu became "better" after absorbing Dai Kaioshin and doesn't mention that regarding South Kaioshin... To me, the conclusion is rather obvious, even if its not hard evidence. South Kaioshin didn't make Buu lose any power and Buff Buu is stronger than Kid Buu and Super Buu (by how much we don't know).

So, as you see, what I said is not irrelevant at all to your point... Maybe I was too subtle.

[Bussani]

Meaning, that it's not fact.

No offence intended, but I think a lot of the people here would see this as stating the obvious, since this discussion has come up so many times in the past. That's probably why they missed your subtlety. There just aren't any solid facts for a lot of this Buu stuff.