Greg Werner's Theory Debunked

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:42 pm

Long have I held the opinion that Tenshinhan was the strongest human. I found out this morning at 6AM that was completely false.

I heard complaints of supposedly "erroneous" info in the US SPARKING regarding profiles. I wouldn't have given it a second thought unless I read as far as "Chiaotzu is a vampire". While he certainly isn't that, I do know his design is based on a Chinese vampire so I read on. It also claimed Tenshinhan was labeled as an alien. Since I had heard insane fan rumblings YEARS ago on this topic I decided to follow this up.

I whipped out Dai 7 and looked up Tenshinhan. Over half-a-decade of Japanese since I first 'translated' the character guide, there it was under Special Qualities "Alien".

So there you have it. I suppose since I left the community for a looooong time somewhere around its peak in the US I am the last to realize this but for what it's worth, I was completely wrong.

h3ndrix2005 · Post by **h3ndrix2005** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:59 pm

I always liked to think Kuririn was the strongest human. But, I don't want to use filler or movies as canon, so I won't. It's just that Kuririn was my favorite human, and it makes me WANT to believe he was the strongest. Plus, it's entirely possible, even though it was never confirmed.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:16 pm

Yamcha says he is, but what does he know?

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:22 pm

Well, Yamcha has something of an ego, so if he admits that Kuririn's stronger...

Daimao · Post by **Daimao** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:09 pm

Yamucha says that he (Kuririn) is the strongest Earthling, if you want to split hairs. He was also trying to reassure his daughter, so you have to take the whole thing with a grain of salt in any case.

As for the profiles, there were a lot of things in there that I'm not sure I buy. Still, I translated what was in the Japanese version straight across (only making corrections on matters that were beyond dispute, factwise, and were not open to interpretation--for example, Burter being the "Blue Typhoon," instead of "Blue Hurricane." Hopefully, those got propogated through the Japanese version). So don't necessarily take those as ironclad canon, either.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:57 pm

Since Akira Toriyama had his name on the spine of each and since he even bothered to further affiliate himself with it through the introductions, I count it as his seal of approval, "mistakes" and all because Lord knows there are plenty but they're nothing to be ashamed of.

And that Yamcha quote, I believe it was in the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai right? I never trusted his (Yamcha's) assumptions to begin with so while I knew of that quote, considering Akira Toriyama was even getting shakey around that point anyway, I did indeed take it with a grain of salt. However, his being an alien would make a great deal of sense combined with that quote. Because as foggy as my memory has gotten, from what I've read, still I refuse to believe that our little monk friend could best someone who freakishly/respectfully devotes his life to training

Just an opinion, don't anyone get all worked up and drag in quotes, page #'s or scenes. I'm not going down that road anymore

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:04 pm

And it's not like Yamcha said "Hey Kuririn! Tenshinhan! Power up and I will leik compare ur powerz!!!111"

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:58 am

Why would Ten be classified as an alien, though? o_O Cause of the third eye? Wasn't it cleared up with the fact that it was a sign of Ten reaching enlightenment? Sounds like one of Toriyama's famous brain farts where he forgets something he has mentioned or done earlier. >_>;

Daimao · Post by **Daimao** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:14 am

omae no kaasan wrote:Since Akira Toriyama had his name on the spine of each and since he even bothered to further affiliate himself with it through the introductions, I count it as his seal of approval, "mistakes" and all because Lord knows there are plenty but they're nothing to be ashamed of.

Are we talking about the profiles from the game? That's what I was referring to about translating straight across. I don't know who wrote those up originally.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:56 am

Nooooonononono! I wouldn't base a thing on the games. This revelation just sparked from an entry in the games (sparked get it?)

Seriously though. After hearing about the games I checked Daizenshu 7. In Tenshinhan's profile it literally says he's an alien.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:46 am

Anything dealing with the subject seems to be eluded to in the Manga (I wish I could say the Anime too, but I never watched the Dragonball Anme, just DBZ.) and throughout everything I've seen, he was just a human.

Tenshinhan did demonstrate some abilities none could replicate. Splitting himself apart was unique in the Manga, as well as Shiyo-ken.

As for the Kikoho, Kame-sen'nin knew of the attack previously...and is stated to have been used before, so that is not unique.

I don't have much of an opinion on the matter - I just think Kuririn ended up stronger by the 25th Tenka'ichi Budokai.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:13 am

How accurate are the Daizenshuus? As far as I'm concerned Ten is human. I had always assumed he had a third eye because of the Journey to the West character he's loosley based on.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:09 pm

Holy shit! I never noticed that! The version translated that too! "Extraterrestrial of the "three-eyed" race,..."

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:58 pm

Daizenshuu 4 lists Tenshinhan as a Martial Artist on the Earthlings page in the racial groups section. So which Daizenshuu do we believe?

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:58 pm

Tenshinhan is an alien?!

I always assumed he was just some guy that Tsuru Sennin trained.
It's very unusual that I've never seen this anywhere.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:10 pm

Hujio wrote:Daizenshuu 4 lists Tenshinhan as a Martial Artist on the Earthlings page in the racial groups section. So which Daizenshuu do we believe?

Dai 4. Dai 7 starts his bio off as saying his primary reason for training under Tsurusennin was so that he'd become an excellent assassin. An assassin who fights fair and doesn't like to kill. Riiight.

Most likely he was supposed to be categorized under a non-human Earthling. The three types are monsters, animals and humans. Maybe they felt monster was wrong and screwed up?

MyVisionity · Post by **MyVisionity** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:16 pm

Dayspring wrote:Dai 4. Dai 7 starts his bio off as saying his primary reason for training under Tsurusennin was so that he'd become an excellent assassin. An assassin who fights fair and doesn't like to kill. Riiight.

Didn't Tenshinhan aspire to become as great a killer as TaoPaiPai in the anime? Ten wasn't so noble in the early days; he was pretty cruel towards his opponents.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:23 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Dai 4. Dai 7 starts his bio off as saying his primary reason for training under Tsurusennin was so that he'd become an excellent assassin. An assassin who fights fair and doesn't like to kill. Riiight.
Didn't Tenshinhan aspire to become as great a killer as TaoPaiPai in the anime? Ten wasn't so noble in the early days; he was pretty cruel towards his opponents.

Ahh, that must be why the bio said that then. In the manga it isn't known why he trained under Tsurusenin. The only thing he knew about Taopaipai in the manga was that he was Tsuru's brother and that he was an excellent fighter (and probably the assassin bit).

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:56 pm

The Daiz were assembled by a Staff of unknown origin (in other words, whether they were his staff or Shueisha's or personally assigned by him is never stated in his introduction) however, Akira Toriyama's name is on the work, and his words open each book, all praising the staff for their care with his work and their long hours. 7's intro is the most interesting because like some of the other interviews I've translated along the way, he also mentions here that it is essentially up to them since he has forgotten most of the events (This was in 1996 mind you, almost a decade ago)

Did Akira Toriyama sit at a desk and compile the Daiz? No. Did he trust the people with his work enough to put his name on it and let them handle the data? Yes. Does this data have errors? You bet it does! But just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it is instantly rejected. There's much in the story that isn't perfect yet we all enjoy it.

And quite frankly, I see no reason for them to make up the fact that Tenshinhan isn't human when there are plenty of freaks walking around the Dragon World considered human that are a lot funkier than he is ^O^

Just a side thought. Ever actually check the Daiz for names of people who toiled over 'em? Besides Publisher and credits for art direction you won't find a name. Damn.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:53 pm

Now that was an excellent description of the Daizenshuu. Seriously.

This question has come up so many times, I almost find it impossible to believe that it's only being figured out in North America now. Until now, my theory was that Tenshinhan's mom made money by drinking radioactive waste by the barrel. I still like that one better, but it's awesome to finally hear an actual statement from a (mostly) trustworthy source.