How the Marketing of DBZ in the U.S Has Affected the Show

[AgitoZ]

In a world where anything foreign was changed up and Americanized, it just shows how the industry was back then. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Sailor Moon, the Street Fighter II movie. I mean that just seemed to be the standard operating procedure back then.

One question that always comes to my head is; "Was there anything that was kept faithful in the first place?" I mean the argument that most use is that if it wasn't Americanized it wouldn't be successful. But was there anything that was faithful and failed? What's the example that everyone avoided to copy?

Remember the time that it was, acquiring DB/Z was probably a huge risk for them, especially after the Harmony Gold dub. I don't think that one was very successful at all.

Exactly when did the Harmony Gold dub air? One of the biggest blessings that DB got from CN was the time slot. Not to mention they were heavily advertised, unlike when it was syndicated. That could've been a part of it.

First, while there are no sales figures to prove anything, GT is somewhat of an illustration. Funimation wanted to make GT more hardcore to make it more appealing to the audience they felt they had by the end of Z. One method of doing this was to replace the score with the crappy Menza score. If they didn't feel replacing the score from Z was an effective idea, they wouldn't have done GT this way. Dragon Ball didn't need to be made more hardcore because nothing was able to make it seem hardcore (thus, their approach was different in marketing it).

And exactly how well did that turn out? Even if they did try to make it more hardcore, GT was anything but. Like what you said about DB, I think GT can't be made more hardcore even with the crappy rap opening and changed music.

[Herms]

Hasn't the DB franchise actually done better in Europe than the US? I seem to recall that the games sell better there if nothing else. Is so that would go against the idea that Funi's handling of the series increases its success.

[KiddoCabbusses]

One question that always comes to my head is; "Was there anything that was kept faithful in the first place?" I mean the argument that most use is that if it wasn't Americanized it wouldn't be successful. But was there anything that was faithful and failed? What's the example that everyone avoided to copy?

At that time? By some standards, there were a few more faithful than others (Speed Racer, Astro Boy and Ronin Warriors, IIRC, were dubbed mostly uncut and with the original sound tracks, name changes and possible changes to the script aside.), but the examples most dubbers followed were the likes of Voltron and Robotech.

Dubs with mostly-accurate scripts were mostly restricted to the VHS Audience until Toonami aired Gundam Wing.

[Budogenkai]

Hmm I'd say it's been a win/lose situation.

On the plus side, I can safely say that if I went up to anyone who is in the 15 to 30 age demographic and said Dragonball, they'd probably know what I was talking about. Having that sense of popularity makes it easier to talk about rather than some niche show that no one has ever even heard about.

And then there's the negative side, which makes said people enjoy the show for what it is, think it's a pointless cartoon about heavy metal and grown men punching each other constantly for way too long, or they have have an appreciation for it being a part of their childhood. I don't like how DBZ in particular has this reputation of being a mindless show with a monster truck announcer, but I've grown to understand how that is the way the show was originally broadcasted.

As for GT and DB, my god have I heard some weird shit said about them. I've had people swear to me that GT was about rap. Literally.

[Kendamu]

Hasn't the DB franchise actually done better in Europe than the US? I seem to recall that the games sell better there if nothing else. Is so that would go against the idea that Funi's handling of the series increases its success.

That's an extremely good point! Seems that, the less the source material is altered, the better it does on a global scale! That could at least partially explain why, outside of TV censorship standards that apply to different degrees in every country, most of the world didn't do as much to change Dragonball Z. It's already amazing without being altered!

Going by that notion, it's amazing in and of itself that when taking away fundamental parts of the show, such as the music, it still managed to become extremely popular! Of course, it doesn't really sand up to the original or you'd find more fans outside of the US clamoring for some good 'ol Uhmerikun DeeBeeZee because of all the "improvements" made to the original, right?

Interesting.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Something a few of you guys need to realize is that the North American television landscape is almost xenophobic in behavior. If you look at the average schedule of a US based channel, the programming is guaranteed to be dominated by US produced programming. Be it Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, Fox, or ABC Family. That is the truth. Due to that behavior it's difficult to get foreign programming on the air in the US partially because it just doesn't mix well with the rest of the lineup thanks to art style, voice acting, score, theme, or plot. It's certainly true for anime. How exactly would a channel transition from airing, say The Power Puff Girls to Gundam Wing? It just doesn't work. Television channels want a cohesive programming look, and a target focus so that marketing, and advertisers know who to aim at, as well as to get viewers watching a block of programming rather than just select shows. This is the reason localization occurs. It's to make the show attractive to broadcasters by making it fit in within a pre-existing mold. It would be a bit jarring to go from Batman: The Animated Series with its orchestral like score to Shinsuke's Dragon Ball Z's martial arts score. It's a tonne less jarring to go from Batman to the synth rock scores of the North American TV versions of Dragon Ball Z.

In the world of entertainment, the US is an exporter, not an importer. Which is why the number of US produced animated series obliterates the numbers of Japan produced television series on TV. This isn't the case in Europe, where a lot of markets can't necessarily afford to produce their own programming. As well, Europe as a whole has been a tonne more welcoming to anime than North America. Anime had huge mainstream success in Europe decades before the first of that kind of success would ripple into the US which allowed anime programming to be accepted. Heck, just look at the time it took to get Dragon Ball Z on US TV. The first episode premiered in 1996. The show was almost over in Japan at that point, and had begun airing in other, non-US markets years before. Look at what Dragon Ball Z did for anime in the US. It was almost unheard of to see anime on US TV, but thanks to the success of Z a tonne of series were getting a chance, and while anime isn't as mainstream as it once was, there's certainly a lot more anime being promoted as anime on US TV today compared to prior to Z.

This is why I think Funimation's localization of the music in Z is justified. The only way that show was to succeed was if they were to get a prime venue, and that's what they tried to do.

[Kendamu]

The thing is, every show you named was on CN at the same time. I could watch DBZ, Gundam Wing, Batman: The Animated Series, and Powerpuff Girls five times a week at one point. Sometimes six days a week! Out of those, the only one that was heavily altered in most cases was DBZ. During the few movies where DBZ was not heavily altered, there were no complaints from anybody.

We're not as stupid or xenophobic as corporate America thinks.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think xenophobia is the easy excuse but I don't think that's the real reason. At least not by the time DBZ aired.

I don't think corporate America or anime localizers at the time of DBZ necessarily thought the audience was xenophobic. I think what they thought was that it was a safer bet to do things as they had been done in the past.

Corporate America may not be xenophobic. But it is afraid of change. Had Battle of the Planets been uber successful in the 70s as an unaltered Gatchaman the "me too" mentality would have probably led to fewer alterations in subsequent shows. But since Battle of the Planets worked everybody else followed suit.

The same kind of thing happened with Robotech. The real reason the various unrelated series were mixed together had to do with TV scheduling, not xenophobia. But those reasons get lost to history. What subsequent producers see is "Robotech succeeded by changing stuff."

DBZ got stuck somewhere in the middle. The shift toward less change (accurate names and such) but still in that "older shows thrived with changes so we should change stuff too" mentality.

Xenophobia may have factored in with the very old anime. But I think by the time DBZ came around it was more a "me too" kind of thing. Nobody wanted to be the first to do something different.

[Kendamu]

You do bring up a very valid point that DBZ was sort of "the end of an era" when it came to making lots of changes and showed up during a big transitioning point for anime.

[Rocketman]

Expecting the US to go along with what the rest of the world does? Sounds like COMMUNISM!

[Jaruka]

Hasn't the DB franchise actually done better in Europe than the US? I seem to recall that the games sell better there if nothing else. Is so that would go against the idea that Funi's handling of the series increases its success.

Whenever I travel around central Europe it's filled with animé merchandise, I ever say Dragonball Z figures in France. As for England, it's not such a mainstream thing but central Europe seems to love it, especially France.

Case in point, central Europe gets all the collector's editions and games like Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 5 (Accel 2) and Infinite World. Despite these games being in English, England doesn't actually get them.

[XanatosVanBadass]

People here bring up the belief that DBZ's updated US, "music," helped certain people get into the show. While I despute how true that really is (Did you like DBZ because it had a, "cool," score? Or did you like said score because it happened to be attached to a cool show so you liked it be association?) I would like to bring up the other side. I know plenty of people who couldn't get into DBZ because of the awful music and embarassing voice acting. I myself had a tough (nigh impossible) time taking it seriously, especially since it was followed by Gundam Wing with its original music and spectacular (at the time anyhow) dub. I only really started to love DBZ when 1) I saw the unedited movies, and 2) I began watching the show on the international channel. Honestly, I think Gundam Wing's success on Toonami was more of a godsend that DB's was because it proved that an anime doesn't need severe alterations to its content to be successful on American TV.

[Budogenkai]

Expecting the US to go along with what the rest of the world does? Sounds like COMMUNISM!

Let's burn something!

[Super Sonic]

Corporate America may not be xenophobic. But it is afraid of change. Had Battle of the Planets been uber successful in the 70s as an unaltered Gatchaman the "me too" mentality would have probably led to fewer alterations in subsequent shows. But since Battle of the Planets worked everybody else followed suit.

Also there was no way BOTP could've aired as unaltered Gatchaman back then. The FCC was very anal about violence in kids' cartoons back then. That's why they kept cutting scenes of action and replacing with that stupid robot. Heck, that's why Superfriends was kinda lame because they couldn't show Aquaman or Batman punch anyone. Gatchaman's 80s dub "G-Force" was able to get away with more and was truer to Gatchaman than BOTP was, including having Jinpei/Peewee talk like a normal person and not make him an adroid that beeped and booped, though they gave the heroes lame names. Still BOTP fans hate G-Force with a passion because of changes. Though I did hear someone say it had to do with both shows airing before internet's invention for some reason.

As for Z, like others said, marketing probably had to do with the ain't broke, don't fix it thought.

[Calcaneus]

I think overall, the show got successful on the back of the show itself. I think what Funi's treatment did probably help with was attracting people who wouldn't normally be attracted to a cartoon. As superficial as it may be, the dub and score just made it cone across as different kind of show, more "hardcore" or "mature" or whatever. This probably most affected anyone who was 10-14 during the hey day in the US.

If the show was treated properly, it still would have been a success, but I doubt we would have Soulja Boy or Lil B rapping about Goku. I don't know about you, but "Bitch I look like Goku" makes it all worth it.

[Gaffer Tape]

It would be a bit jarring to go from Batman: The Animated Series with its orchestral like score to Shinsuke's Dragon Ball Z's martial arts score. It's a tonne less jarring to go from Batman to the synth rock scores of the North American TV versions of Dragon Ball Z.

Wait, what? It's more jarring to go from one orchestral score to another orchestral score than it is to go from an orchestral score to a synthesized rock guitar score? How does that work? Well, anyway, like Kendamu said, all those shows WERE aired together anyway.

Now where was I? Oh, yeah. I don't buy any of the "necessary evil" crap. I think it's a strawman argument. Then again, there is no way of knowing for sure. I can only speak for myself. Like Kendamu, I was blown away by the level of quality shown when the movies aired on Toonami. I assumed the awesome dubbing and amazing music wasn't on the show simply because the movies must have had a better budget. Starting with season 3, I could barely tolerate the terrible voices and stale music, yet I kept watching for two seasons just because I liked DBZ that much. In other words, I kept watching in spite of how FUNimation was altering the show, not because of it. And I ultimately did stop watching the dub entirely just because the quality and alterations were so poor.

What kids dislike is change, if you ask me. Toonami followers didn't like the DB score because it was drastically different from the dubbed DBZ score they were used to. Had the original score been what they had been introduced to from the beginning, I doubt most people would be complaining about it. Obviously not everyone, as I was introduced with the Shuki Levy score and simply found the original score to be more compelling than any alternative. But I agree with Kendamu's examples: most people don't care or notice one way or the other. Those that do just go along with whatever they're used to. And those who didn't like it, like me, simply stuck around because Dragon Ball still managed to be interesting in spite of all the low-quality baggage it was being forced to drag around.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMOdcmfn_A

This is how I think most people see DBZ. I do find the clip funny, but the fact that this is what people see DBZ as makes me sad because there is so much more to the show than that.

[XanatosVanBadass]

^ That is 100% accurate as to the goddawful done that FUNimation placed on DBZ. In particular, the music was precisely what the US, "music," sounds like to me. If people saw that and knew I liked Dragon Ball, I'd be embarassed.

[TheGreatness25]

I think if they got their show out there and did all of their changes and whatnot, but then after it was rolling they did a more faithful interpretation, I think that would save them all of the hate. That is kinda what they're doing, and I think that including the original version into their DVDs was a move to say, "Hey, we know that we're not following the original, so here you go." I really don't think they should get all the crap they get because they did what they did, but they were still acknowledging the original's fans by giving it to them on the DVDs. They could have just not done that and most people wouldn't even get to see the original Japanese series.