Did Toriyama Say DBO is Canon?

[B]

Toriyama never said the Cell arc was canon, either. He's not a supernerd and is never going to say something like that about anything Dragon Ball related ever.

[Michsi]

Toriyama never said the Cell arc was canon, either.

Huh?

You can't tell me you don't see the difference between what you're bringing up as an argument and the canon-related issue of DBO?

[B]

Toriyama never said the Cell arc was canon, either.

Huh?

You can't tell me you don't see the difference between what you're bringing up as an argument and the canon-related issue of DBO?

Your argument was Toriyama didn't set up a guideline for what exactly happened, and what did not happen. Overseeing the production of the entire game isn't enough; He's gotta SAY it. With his LIPS. And TONGUE. So, naturally, I accommodate you; Toriyama hasn't said such about any of Dragon Ball.

I think the fact you couldn't refute it and basically asked me if I was joking says everything.

[Michsi]

Toriyama never said the Cell arc was canon, either.

Huh?

You can't tell me you don't see the difference between what you're bringing up as an argument and the canon-related issue of DBO?

Your argument was Toriyama didn't set up a guideline for what exactly happened, and what did not happen. Overseeing the production of the entire game isn't enough; He's gotta SAY it. With his LIPS. And TONGUE. So, naturally, I accommodate you; Toriyama hasn't said such about any of Dragon Ball.

I think the fact you couldn't refute it and basically asked me if I was joking says everything.

He was just as involved in the production and oversaw the designs of many movies. That doesn't mean they are canon to the original story. That doesn't mean they should be disregarded or not considered part of the fandome, yet everybody is aware that there is no place for them storywise.
And if anything, he only mentions the designs, the same type of contribution he offered GT. For all we know, 90% the plot might not have been his idea.
As I said, it's a Dragon Ball continuation not THE Dragon ball continuation.

And frankly,the whole bringing up an arc from the original story as an argument for something that considered to be a continuation or "attachment" really didn't need to be refuted....

[dbgtFO]

He was just as involved in the production and oversaw the designs of many movies. That doesn't mean they are canon to the original story. That doesn't mean they should be disregarded or not considered part of the fandome, yet everybody is aware that there is no place for them storywise.
And if anything, he only mentions the designs, the same type of contribution he offered GT. For all we know, 90% the plot might not have been his idea.

I think Toriyama has actually stated something about the movies being in a different dimension or something, basically saying that the original story and the movies don't share the same continuity.
I think it was Shenlong Times 6 or the Super interview in that book, but I don't know for sure.

He also stated that GT was a side story to the original DB in the DBox GT introduction IIRC.

[Michsi]

He also stated that GT was a side story to the original DB in the DBox GT introduction IIRC.

Well that only adds to the canon problem. GT and DBO can't really co-exist, but he pretty much acknowledges DBGT as part of the original story. But as I said, DBO is a Dragon Ball story, same as plenty others. Yes, that Toriyama hasn't come up and specifically stated that this is what he believes should happen after the manga ended is necessary for me to acknowledge and accept that DBO is THE continuation, IMO. Otherwise, people are free to accept it as much as they do GT, as just another side story.

Frankly, I like the story of DBO more than that of GT and I wouldn't mind this as the canon continuation but I still can't place the story on the same level as that of the manga.

I think Toriyama has actually stated something about the movies being in a different dimension or something

Didn't he say the same thing about DBE?

[dbgtFO]

Didn't he say the same thing about DBE?

Yep.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... nball-film

[Herms]

I think Toriyama has actually stated something about the movies being in a different dimension or something, basically saying that the original story and the movies don't share the same continuity.
I think it was Shenlong Times 6 or the Super interview in that book, but I don't know for sure.

It was in his Daizenshuu 6 interview. He says he views the movies as a separate dimension.

[B]

He was just as involved in the production and oversaw the designs of many movies.

Again, where is the source on this? Designing a character is not the same as overseeing story elements, character dialog, animation... etc. The movies were all written by Takao Koyama, with multiple directors spanning the twelve films. Toriyama was "involved" in their production, just like he's "involved" with DBO? Okay, sure, we've known this. "Just as involved," though? Meaning, to the same extent? I've yet to see proof.

[Michsi]

He was just as involved in the production and oversaw the designs of many movies.

Again, where is the source on this? Designing a character is not the same as overseeing story elements, character dialog, animation... etc. The movies were all written by Takao Koyama, with multiple directors spanning the twelve films. Toriyama was "involved" in their production, just like he's "involved" with DBO? Okay, sure, we've known this. "Just as involved," though? Meaning, to the same extent? I've yet to see proof.

Example : he specified that Broly shouldn't wear the typical saiyan armor because he was never part of Freeza's army. This is a plot and story related element and there are plenty more examples. I can't find it right now but I'm pretty sure it's on Kanzentai and/or one of Herms guides.

And, back to Toriyama's message and to what I said before : even here he only mentions having contributed with designs and overseen the designs of other staff members.

Everyone on the excellent staff really drew a lot of new characters and machines for me. Of course, I supervise them all. There are also a lot of designs in there that I drew myself.

He mentions nothing about the story. Yes, the creation of the majin race is 100% Toriyama, but that's about 0,1% DBO's story. He contributed more to DBZ filler anime in that regard.

I'm not denying that his involvement and his work with DBO exceeds that of GT, but should that alone be enough to establish DBO as the one and only right continuation?

[TripleRach]

Yes, the creation of the majin race is 100% Toriyama,

Is it really? People keep saying that, but I don't think I've seen any real evidence for it. I know the common fan assumption is that he came up with the Bob and Margaret idea, because it's "so Toriyama," but it doesn't really sound like his writing style to me.

[Michsi]

Yes, the creation of the majin race is 100% Toriyama,

Is it really? People keep saying that, but I don't think I've seen any real evidence for it. I know the common fan assumption is that he came up with the Bob and Margaret idea, because it's "so Toriyama," but it doesn't really sound like his writing style to me.

Sorry, my bad. What I meant to say is that it's 100% Toriyama-ish, meaning it really seems like something he would have thought of (but then again, maybe not) . But other than that, we have absolutely no proof he came up with anything story related for now.

[dbgtFO]

I think Toriyama has actually stated something about the movies being in a different dimension or something, basically saying that the original story and the movies don't share the same continuity.
I think it was Shenlong Times 6 or the Super interview in that book, but I don't know for sure.

It was in his Daizenshuu 6 interview. He says he views the movies as a separate dimension.

Ah yes, thank you. I had an idea it came from that book.

[Fox666]

But other than that, we have absolutely no proof he came up with anything story related for now.

If you recognize Toriyama style, you know he created most of the backstory

[Michelle91]

GT and DBO can't really co-exist, but he pretty much acknowledges DBGT as part of the original story. But as I said, DBO is a Dragon Ball story, same as plenty others.

Maybe GT and DBO could be view as their own universe similar how Ultimate and 616 Marvel are. I always view the DBZ/GT anime as it's own universe since it adds stuff that are not in the manga.

[Herms]

If you recognize Toriyama style, you know he created most of the backstory

I don't know, seems pretty subjective to me.

[Fox666]

Agree. It's pratically the core definition of "subjective".

But c'mon, Majin Boo creates a wife by reading Mr. Satan adult magazines? Tell me that is not Toriyama

[Michsi]

But other than that, we have absolutely no proof he came up with anything story related for now.

If you recognize Toriyama style, you know he created most of the backstory

What exaclty is so Toriyama style about DBO's story? Aside from that Majin back story, pretty much nothing else strikes me as typical Toriyama. Namek blowing up and the namekians re-locating on earth? Gohan writing a book about ki , that leads to the nr. of human fighters to increase. They seem more like convenient plot points, made specifically to cater to MMORPG's gameplay. Even the way Vegeta and Goku have been said to die, while cool and all, wasn't something I'd imagine coming from Toriyama.
If anything , it actually retcons some things he said about DB, like Vegeta being the first to die due to bad blood pressure. Even if he was just being half serious about it, that was 100% his idea. Trunks and Goten opening up a school, while it was strongly hinted at that they lost interest in fighting and were leading normal lives, Uub, who was hinted at becomming the next great hero, not being mentioned anywhere -> this goes against what impressions the manga left me with.

Maybe GT and DBO could be view as their own universe similar how Ultimate and 616 Marvel are. I always view the DBZ/GT anime as it's own universe since it adds stuff that are not in the manga.

I think so too. I don't like GT but I don't think it's fair to dismiss it either.

[Fox666]

What exaclty is so Toriyama style about DBO's story? Aside from that Majin back story, pretty much nothing else strikes me as typical Toriyama. Namek blowing up and the namekians re-locating on earth? Gohan writing a book about ki , that leads to the nr. of human fighters to increase. They seem more like convenient plot points, made specifically to cater to MMORPG's gameplay.

Well, it's not like the original manga don't have things like. The Room of Time and Spirit seems like a convenient plot point for the heroes getting many times stronger out of nowhere.

Besides, even if he created something for the sake of a videogame, it's still story. It's not worst than changing of protagonist in the middle of a arc because he didn't felt the new character was charismatic enough.

If anything , it actually retcons some things he said about DB, like Vegeta being the first to die due to bad blood pressure.

What?

[Kiyza]

If you recognize Toriyama style, you know he created most of the backstory

I don't know, seems pretty subjective to me.

I'm with Herms on this to an extent. Some of the background seems to have been purely Toriyama, but there are some things that I have difficulty believing were entirely his work. Like I mentioned earlier, I really doubt he would have remembered the bit about Bob and Margaret. I think someone else working on the game came up with that bit. If anything, it's more of a collaboration between him and the staff.