Lucifer is a Ma Kaioh Shin?

[Luke Groundwalker]

Bleh I apologize for claiming she's a Makaioshin then.

But even then it seems she's far more likely than pretty much any character we have due to the fact that she comes from the place of the Makaioshin + the potara earrings. It's definitely worth noting on kanzentai imo.

[HECTOR4]

Herms, and others, watch this, written by Jeangabin666 in the Wiki:

The term used for Lucifer is not "Maou", it's 魔神, which means "demon deity/god". You might be right for Lucifer, but ask Herms to use the original Japanese version, not his own personal translation. Lucifer is at least stated to be a deity who rules over demons

Link of the discussion: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Makaioshin

[Bussani]

Herms, and others, watch this, written by Jeangabin666 in the Wiki:

The term used for Lucifer is not "Maou", it's 魔神, which means "demon deity/god". You might be right for Lucifer, but ask Herms to use the original Japanese version, not his own personal translation. Lucifer is at least stated to be a deity who rules over demons

Link of the discussion: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Makaioshin

Maou is a title, not a race. He's a majin (魔神) who is maou.

[HECTOR4]

Herms, and others, watch this, written by Jeangabin666 in the Wiki:

The term used for Lucifer is not "Maou", it's 魔神, which means "demon deity/god". You might be right for Lucifer, but ask Herms to use the original Japanese version, not his own personal translation. Lucifer is at least stated to be a deity who rules over demons

Link of the discussion: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Makaioshin

Maou is a title, not a race. He's a majin (魔神) who is maou.

So this: 魔神 means Majin?

[hleV]

Perhaps you should stick with primary sources rather than fan forums like Daizex, they tend to not know what they're talking about.

I LOL'd.

[kaialone]

So this: 魔神 means Majin?

Its pronounced "Majin", buts its very important to note that its different from the "Majin" in "Majin Boo", Lucifer´s Majin means "demon/magic god" while Boo´s Majin means "demon/magic person".Check out Herms "Demon Guide for further details.

Perhaps you should stick with primary sources rather than fan forums like Daizex, they tend to not know what they're talking about.

I´d wholeheartly agree, but just look who´s talking

[Adamant]

The term used for Lucifer IS 魔王.

The only place in that biography "魔神" appears is as part of the movie title 魔神城のねむり姫.

[Luke Groundwalker]

So this: 魔神 means Majin?

Yes, but it isn't the same as Majin Boo (just said the same way). Think of like in English there is your and you're. It's kind of like that except it's an actual title. The person on the wikia is factually wrong on almost every level possible, which is not surprising cause the idea pertains to Kaio mythology which wasn't even invented by Toriyama with movie 2's release.

Lucifer is also an earthly demon king, Goku and crew don't go into another dimension to encounter him or anything.

I'm really getting tired of people labeling everything demon realm related as "Makaioshin" also, this is painfully noticeable on DB wiki and is really misusing the term. To be a Makaioshin is to be the equivalent of the Kaioshin...and I just don't see that in Dabra or Shura in appearance, power, and stance. Being a king of the demon realm doesn't make you a Makaioshin, since arguably Kaioshin themselves aren't really kings more-so than deities. Is Dabra and Shura supposed to be deities now or something?

What about the Makaio? How do they come in the picture? Isn't it just as possible both Dabra and Shura are Makaio than they are Makaioshin?

Really there is so little information to go on, you can't really say.

[Herms]

Perhaps you should stick with primary sources rather than fan forums like Daizex, they tend to not know what they're talking about.

I'll be infinitely surprised if this guy actually has any access to the relevant primary sources.

Anyway, Adamant already covered this, but Lucifer's bio only uses the term majin as part of the movie title. So for one thing, citing Daizenshuu 7 in irrelevant and misleading, since the book contains no further information on the subject besides what's already given in the movie itself and its title. Second off, if we assume Lucifer is a majin because he lives in Majin Castle, by the same token Ghastel, Lucifer's butler, and all the other guys who live there would also be majin. Are we supposed to assume that they're all Makaioshin too?

But finally, the assumption that being a majin means someone is probably a Makaioshin is breathtakingly absurd. "Majin" is a general term that pops up in lots of manga, anime, and video games. "Makaioshin" is a word Toriyama invented that only appears in DB. Majin are gods who cause disaster, or powerful demons (not gods who rule over demons, as the DB wikia people claim). Makaioshin are gods who rule over the lower gods which rule the Demon World. Bit of a difference, all in all. The idea that the villain from a what-if movie outside regular continuity that has never been followed up on, and which came out years before the idea of Kaios first appeared in the manga and over two decades before Toriyama introduced the concept of Makaios or Makaioshins, must "probably" be a Makaioshin because the title of the movie refers to the place where he lives with a generic term that happens to contain two of the four kanji which make up "Makaioshin" is...illogical. To say the least. The fact that these people can't work that out on their own is considerably discouraging.

[HECTOR4]

All what you have said is just what I thought. Thank you very much everyone for your clarification!

I think I'll stop trying to reason with people from Wiki...I think it's wasting time U.U

But look what it says Jeangabin666 in the Wiki:

魔人 means Majin (demon person), 魔神 is more Mashin (demon deity).

Is this correct?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Kind of, but not really. I think there is some kanji confusion on their part. The second one is pretty much "demon deity", but it is still "Majin"...they're both read the same way.

魔人 = Majin = demon-human
魔神 = Majin = demon-god

You can find more in Kanzentai's Demon Guide: http://www.kanzentai.com/mini_db.php?id=demon

[HECTOR4]

Kind of, but not really. I think there is some kanji confusion on their part. The second one is pretty much "demon deity", but it is still "Majin"...they're both read the same way.

魔人 = Majin = demon-human
魔神 = Majin = demon-god

You can find more in Kanzentai's Demon Guide: http://www.kanzentai.com/mini_db.php?id=demon

OK, I understand...And yes, I know the Demon Guide long.

[Bussani]

But look what it says Jeangabin666 in the Wiki:

魔人 means Majin (demon person), 魔神 is more Mashin (demon deity).

Is this correct?

It can be read both ways as far as I can tell.

魔神 (まじん - "majin")
魔神 (ましん - "mashin")

Both mean the same thing, which is demon-god. The other majin (魔人) can mean demon-man, demon-person, demon-human, etc.

It seems like the title of the Dragon Ball movie with Lucifer is generally romanized as Doragon Bōru: Majin-Jō No Nemuri Hime, so yeah.

[Herms]

It can be read both ways as far as I can tell.

Yep. It's a little hard to gauge these things, but the majin reading seems more common. It's the one listed first on Japanese Wikipedia, and it's used in well-known instances of the term like Kazuhiro Sasaki's nickname and the Daiei movie monster (it's also supposed to be part of the pun behind Mazinger Z's name). Majin Boo's name has even been misspelled 魔神, like in the original script for DBZ episode 229 and Toei's website, which isn't a mistake that would happen if mashin were the dominant reading. But mashin gets used too though, often as a pun on the English word "machine", like in Mashin Hero Wataru.

It seems like the title of the Dragon Ball movie with Lucifer is generally romanized as Doragon Bōru: Majin-Jō No Nemuri Hime, so yeah.

The 魔神 in the title is officially read as majin; that's the furigana reading used in the anime comic for the movie, Daizenshuu 6+7, Tenkaichi Densetsu, etc. And of course they flat-out say Majin-jou in the movie itself.

Something odd I noticed is that the henchmen demons in the movie are listed in the end credits as rather 魔人 than 魔神.

[Luke Groundwalker]

So now that we've cleared that up, why in the world is this dude saying that 魔神 means "Makaioshin"?

Is there any specific reason for this? Being a demon god doesn't make you a Makaioshin, nor does it mean that specifically (since the term is a play on Kaioshin combined with "Makai").

Makaioshin would be ABOVE Lucifer, and possibly even above Dabra. Though at least Dabra has more connections since unlike Lucifer he comes from the Dark Demon Realm or whatever.

[Adamant]

So now that we've cleared that up, why in the world is this dude saying that 魔神 means "Makaioshin"?

Both this 10xKamehameha guy and this Jeangabin666 guy seem to just make shit up, claim it's written in some guidebook they have no access to (and presumably wouldn't be able to read anyway), and hope no one who knows better happens to see what they're saying.

Both of these people seem to be head editors or something, too. That's DB Wikia for you.

[hleV]

I don't know how it is for sure, but I somehow thought that by "primary sources" the DB Wikia guy meant the DB Wikia itself, not some guidebook. At least I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Yeah honestly DB wikia is terrible. I do admit to going there to pick up characters I've forgotten about (mostly filler characters) + screencaps. It DOES have a lot of information there, the problem is all this fanfiction shit on the site.

I also think they should stick to Japanese names mainly cause a lot of information there is exclusive to Japan. It's dub centric...then you have Yo Son Goku special there.

But it's not like it can't be fixed imo, there is a good base there and separation of information, it just needs extensive editing to the information itself.

I like to see something like this, only for Dragonball: http://theonepieceguide.com/guide/

[hleV]

Dragon Ball could use a wiki. And I mean a REAL wiki. What Daizenshuu EX/Kanzentai has done is great but most people will still go to DB Wikia. That's like a lot easier than searching the DaizEX forums.

[Luke Groundwalker]

I still lol everyime DB wiki says Toriyama wrote the story to each of the movies.