My hatred of Dragonball Kai

[Fionordequester]

Metamoss, in what you're saying to VegetaLegacy, you're challenging his idea that he's justified in hating Kai simply due to nostalgia, but if so, why make the text smaller if it's still big enough for him to read?

[kemuri07]

I honestly don't understand the disdain that Kai gets from some people around here. I'm not going to try and pretend that Kai is perfect or anything; it certainly isn't, and I do agree with many of the complains lodged against it. However, I feel that what does work completely overshadows what doesn't. It flows a hell of a lot better thanks in part to most of the filler being cut out, and as a someone who grew up with the english dub for the characters, the new dub is absolutely sublime.

[VegettoEX]

I honestly don't understand the disdain that Kai gets from some people around here

I don't understand comments like this. I'm curious if you've actually read anything that's been discussed about it, or if you're just questioning it in a void (which, if it's the case, is fine; keep reading!). It's been plainly laid out since the series began what issues people have with it:

• Updated score from Kenji Yamamoto not up to his own standards, repetitive pieces get over-used
• Replacement Shunsuke Kikuchi score essentially turns it back into DBZ, fewer pieces used than in the original version
• New animation and effects stick out like a sore thumb against original animation
• Chopping of certain scenes affects the intentional pace of the original animation
• Editing/censoring of footage (particularly early on; things like the Makankosappo)
• Some replacement voices necessary and great (Hikaru Midorikawa gaining Tenshinhan), some questionable (Sho Hayami losing Zarbon), some horribly lame solely for marketing purposes (Aya Hirano)
• Lack of Majin Buu story arc / incomplete show

For me, what few gains are made (solid stereo sound mix, chopping of extraneous material) are far outweighed by what the "refresh" just does in a rushed and incompetent way.

and as a someone who grew up with the english dub for the characters

There ya' go. Got zero interest in a dub, so what FUNimation did with it was nothing more than a minor curiosity for folks like me.

[JulieYBM]

As much as I hate the recasting of Zarbon, I think Reacoom was the even bigger 'crime'. Without Utsumi...the guy just isn't the same. I love me some Sasaki Seiji, but damn, it just isn't the same.

Which reminds me, the scene in the second Hagane no Renkinjutsuhi anime where Utsumi's character meets Sasaki's character is the most epic thing ever in anything.

[TheBlackPaladin]

[*]Editing/censoring of footage (particularly early on; things like the Makankosappo)

Actually, I've been meaning to ask about that. Has there been any more censorship on the Japanese end post-Makankosappo? Which is to say, rather than cut scenes, are there scenes that are still there that have been "cleaned up"?

[kemuri07]

I honestly don't understand the disdain that Kai gets from some people around here

I don't understand comments like this. I'm curious if you've actually read anything that's been discussed about it, or if you're just questioning it in a void (which, if it's the case, is fine; keep reading!). It's been plainly laid out since the series began what issues people have with it:

• Updated score from Kenji Yamamoto not up to his own standards, repetitive pieces get over-used
• Replacement Shunsuke Kikuchi score essentially turns it back into DBZ, fewer pieces used than in the original version
• New animation and effects stick out like a sore thumb against original animation
• Chopping of certain scenes affects the intentional pace of the original animation
• Editing/censoring of footage (particularly early on; things like the Makankosappo)
• Some replacement voices necessary and great (Hikaru Midorikawa gaining Tenshinhan), some questionable (Sho Hayami losing Zarbon), some horribly lame solely for marketing purposes (Aya Hirano)
• Lack of Majin Buu story arc / incomplete show

For me, what few gains are made (solid stereo sound mix, chopping of extraneous material) are far outweighed by what the "refresh" just does in a rushed and incompetent way.

and as a someone who grew up with the english dub for the characters

There ya' go. Got zero interest in a dub, so what FUNimation did with it was nothing more than a minor curiosity for folks like me.

As I mentioned before, I absolutely understand most of the complaints that are lodged against (Though I could care less about the absence of the Majin Buu arc as that was the weakest saga of the entire series), I just don't believe that makes the product the "piece of shit" some people love to preach. And I do believe that a faster pace makes Kai at least worth a watch.

[JulieYBM]

Well, if the pacing, editing, censorship, re-animated scenes are all bad...why can't we call if 'shit'? Mike only listed seven reasons, but they're all big reasons that affect entire episodes of the series.

[Akumaito Beam]

As I mentioned before, I absolutely understand most of the complaints that are lodged against (Though I could care less about the absence of the Majin Buu arc as that was the weakest saga of the entire series), I just don't believe that makes the product the "piece of shit" some people love to preach. And I do believe that a faster pace makes Kai at least worth a watch.

I totally agree with you but it's not like we can say what's objectively shitty or not. Some people don't like it and the reasons listed above were a deal breaker for them while maybe not so much for us.

Different strokes n' all that.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I honestly don't understand the disdain that Kai gets from some people around here

I don't understand comments like this. I'm curious if you've actually read anything that's been discussed about it, or if you're just questioning it in a void (which, if it's the case, is fine; keep reading!). It's been plainly laid out since the series began what issues people have with it:

• Updated score from Kenji Yamamoto not up to his own standards, repetitive pieces get over-used
• Replacement Shunsuke Kikuchi score essentially turns it back into DBZ, fewer pieces used than in the original version
• New animation and effects stick out like a sore thumb against original animation
• Chopping of certain scenes affects the intentional pace of the original animation
• Editing/censoring of footage (particularly early on; things like the Makankosappo)
• Some replacement voices necessary and great (Hikaru Midorikawa gaining Tenshinhan), some questionable (Sho Hayami losing Zarbon), some horribly lame solely for marketing purposes (Aya Hirano)
• Lack of Majin Buu story arc / incomplete show

For me, what few gains are made (solid stereo sound mix, chopping of extraneous material) are far outweighed by what the "refresh" just does in a rushed and incompetent way.

and as a someone who grew up with the english dub for the characters

There ya' go. Got zero interest in a dub, so what FUNimation did with it was nothing more than a minor curiosity for folks like me.

What I don't understand is why so many people are against the new English dub. All of a sudden people love Dale Kelly as the narrator and Linda Young as Freeza and Bruce Faulconer is apparently a music god compared to Yamamoto. I know it's just an opinion, but I never realized how much people love Funimation's first attempt at a dub. I can't scroll through the comments section of a 'Dragon Ball Z' without seeing something like:

Dale Kelly- Awesome narrator!
Kyle Hebert- Alright.
Kai Narrator- Zzzzz.

[XanatosVanBadass]

^ All of that is pretty much nostalgia talking. People like how the show was first shown to them as that is what DBZ should be in their minds. Heaven forbid they actually take to an accurate script with objectively superior performances compared to that embarassing, "dub," FUNI did initially.

[jjgp1112]

Actually, most of the things I've seen are people saying Fr­ieza's new voice and such are better. Most of the "venom" I've seen has been directed towards Gohan and Bulma's voices. This one top-rated YouTube commented on a video of Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin facing off with Fr­ieza was that Gohan was the only "weak link" of Kai.

And I've never seen people say anything good about Dale Kelly. Most people like Kyle Hebert the best.

[MetaMoss]

Metamoss, in what you're saying to VegetaLegacy, you're challenging his idea that he's justified in hating Kai simply due to nostalgia, but if so, why make the text smaller if it's still big enough for him to read?

It's that his opinion was what I would have if I hadn't let go of my own nostalgia a few years back, and I was trying to encourage him into giving Kai another shot. My dad, for example, was a fan of FUNi's dub back when it first aired, yet he enjoyed the Kai dub without getting into the original Japanese like I did. I figure it was that the Z dub only became a part of his life when he was 40, so he doesn't have any nostalgic feelings that I had, as I was introduced to the show when I was 2. What I'm saying is that I see a younger version of myself in VegetaLegacy, and I'm trying to tell him that I was in his shoes a few years back, and how I became able to discern quality when I gave up most of my nostalgic feelings of the FUNi dub. If he ignores my advice, that's fine, I totally understand where he's coming from. About the text, I did want him to be able to read it, but I made it small to designate it as an extra note. Sometimes my logic is weird.

[Nex Carnifex]

Does anyone else despise Dragonball Kai as much as i do?
I don't like the music and I hate the fact that they did not do the scenes over the same way they did the opening.

Also how come they could not get the same voice actors for Gohan and Freeza? That really made me mad.

You watch the little kid subs of dragon ball? lame

[VegettoEX]

You watch the little kid subs of dragon ball? lame

While I can't actually tell what it is you're trying to say, your attitude in saying it is inappropriate. If you don't have anything to say that includes some type of justification or reasoning, well, you don't actually have anything to say.

No more free warnings. You've had enough from the rest of the community and moderators.

[Nex Carnifex]

You watch the little kid subs of dragon ball? lame

While I can't actually tell what it is you're trying to say, your attitude in saying it is inappropriate. If you don't have anything to say that includes some type of justification or reasoning, well, you don't actually have anything to say.

No more free warnings. You've had enough from the rest of the community and moderators.

Yknow not saying I'm being uber nice here but when I came here you guys seemed pretty egotistical and stubborn, I just don't understand why someone would want to watch the american subs unless they were really young. I haven't really been shown much respect here so far, everyone has been snarky and shit so why should I hold back.

[VegettoEX]

Yknow not saying I'm being uber nice here but when I came here you guys seemed pretty egotistical and stubborn, I just don't understand why someone would want to watch the american subs unless they were really young. I haven't really been shown much respect here so far.

When you show up, break half the rules, are warned about it, and then go on to still type poorly and attack other members... what exactly are you expecting?

Like I said, I can't even tell what you're saying to this other member. What are "little kid subs"? What "american subs"... as opposed to... French subtitles? Spanish subtitles?

If you can't clearly communicate with your fellow fans in a polite way, don't expect much more in return.

[Nex Carnifex]

Yknow not saying I'm being uber nice here but when I came here you guys seemed pretty egotistical and stubborn, I just don't understand why someone would want to watch the american subs unless they were really young. I haven't really been shown much respect here so far.

When you show up, break half the rules, are warned about it, and then go on to still type poorly and attack other members... what exactly are you expecting?

Like I said, I can't even tell what you're saying to this other member. What are "little kid subs"? What "american subs"... as opposed to... French subtitles? Spanish subtitles?

If you can't clearly communicate with your fellow fans in a polite way, don't expect much more in return.

Yeah, compared to the original Japanese with subtitles the american dubs are just goofy, I don't understand why anyone would prefer them unless they watched it exclusively on Nickelodeon. I was probably typing poorly because I was typing on my cell phone in bed. And I don't recall attacking other members any differently than they were attacking me for thinking Dragon Ball was deserving of a less awkward manga translation.

[MetaMoss]

Yeah, compared to the original Japanese with subtitles the american dubs are just goofy, I don't understand why anyone would prefer them unless they watched it exclusively on Nickelodeon. I was probably typing poorly because I was typing on my cell phone in bed. And I don't recall attacking other members any differently than they were attacking me for thinking Dragon Ball was deserving of a less awkward manga translation.

They weren't attacking you for wanting a better translation (trust me, we all want one), they were warning you that scanslations are illegal and against the rules of this forum. You were the one attacking vegetasleagacy15 for his opinion on liking the old dub. Trying to play the victim on something that didn't happen is stupid, especially when you go and do what you said you were a victim of to other people.

On Topic:
I forgot to mention that I agree with vegetasleagacy15 that Toei should've reanimated the whole show. Of course, they're to cheap to do it. Makes me laugh back when most of my knowledge of Toei was back when I was heavily into Transformers, and they were the highest quality animation studio that worked on the 80's cartoon. Which is really sad.

[Pokewhiz7]

Yeah, compared to the original Japanese with subtitles the american dubs are just goofy, I don't understand why anyone would prefer them unless they watched it exclusively on Nickelodeon. I was probably typing poorly because I was typing on my cell phone in bed. And I don't recall attacking other members any differently than they were attacking me for thinking Dragon Ball was deserving of a less awkward manga translation.

Of Dragon Ball Z, maybe. The Kai dub is pretty damn good.

I forgot to mention that I agree with vegetasleagacy15 that Toei should've reanimated the whole show. Of course, they're to cheap to do it.

This. I would have liked Kai so much more if they had done this.

[Adamant]

• Updated score from Kenji Yamamoto not up to his own standards, repetitive pieces get over-used
• Replacement Shunsuke Kikuchi score essentially turns it back into DBZ, fewer pieces used than in the original version
• New animation and effects stick out like a sore thumb against original animation
• Chopping of certain scenes affects the intentional pace of the original animation
• Editing/censoring of footage (particularly early on; things like the Makankosappo)
• Some replacement voices necessary and great (Hikaru Midorikawa gaining Tenshinhan), some questionable (Sho Hayami losing Zarbon), some horribly lame solely for marketing purposes (Aya Hirano)
• Lack of Majin Buu story arc / incomplete show

You can add "voice acting is generally lesser than in the original" to that list. The obvious example is of course Tsuru's embarrassingly poor Bulma in the first few episodes, a textbook case of "phoning it in", but most the other voices as a whole weren't up to the Z standards, either. It's excusable, of course - many of the actors are getting quite old - but it drags the overall impression down nevertheless.