Theory - How the movies fit into a timeline

[Luke Groundwalker]

First off I'd like to establish that this isn't a thread about fitting all of the movies together on a consistent timeline or continuity with the anime or manga, but rather this is a thread about how the movies connect.

I also like to state that I'll be using the dub names for the movies, cause they're easier to remember and I like them better than the original names. You may choose whatever you like, this is just a preference of mine personally.

Also another note is that this theory takes in account that the entirety of TOEI's series, contradictions and all, is "canon." This isn't a thread discussing the manga or Akira Toriyama's work.

Let's overview the movies and OVAs, though I will be ignoring the Dragonball movies in this theory.

Movie:
Curse of the Blood Rubies - Alternate take on Pilaf arc.
Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle - Alternate take on the first training arc.
Mystical Adventure - Alternate take on Red Ribbon arc.
Dead Zone - Before Dragonball Z, has a sequel arc to it. (canon)
The World's Strongest - Alternate take of post-Saiyan arc. Piccolo died but came back to life somehow?
The Tree of Might - Alternate take of post-Saiyan arc. Everyone is still alive.
Lord Slug - Takes place after Tree of Might, alternate take of Namek arc. Goku and friends never go to Namek (but rather, Namek comes to THEM!)
Cooler's Revenge - Possibly takes place in main series, due to Cooler's cameo in Dragonball GT. Probably in the three-year training wait for the Androids. (canon)
The Return of Cooler - Alternate take of the Android/Cell arc, takes place after Cooler's Revenge.
Super Android 13! - Alternate sequel to Android arc.
Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan - Alternate take of late Cell arc.
Bojack Unbound - Directly follows up from Cell arc. (canon)
Broly - Second Coming - Alternate take on the pre-Boo arc and sequel to Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan.
Bio-Broly - Alternate sequel to World Tournament arc, and sequel to Broly - Second Coming.
Fusion Reborn - Alternate take of the Fusion arc. Maybe in this Goku killed Boo when he first transformed into SSJ3. Takes place a universe where everything is canon, except for Cell (lol)
Wrath of the Dragon - Direct sequel to Dragonball Z (before the final timeskip), explains how Trunks got his sword in Dragonball GT. (canon)
Path to Power - Remake of the first two arcs of Dragonball.

OVA:
Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans - Some type of twisted universe where The Tree of Might, Lord Slug, Freeza arc, Cooler's Revenge, and Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan are in a single canon and Cell arc isn't.
Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! - Takes place after Boo arc, but before the final timeskip. (canon)

Now where is the "theory" in this? Well there isn't much, this is just a map of how I view the movies in how they are relatively in canon some form or another.

The theory comes from finding more deeper ties.

1. The inclusion of Icarus/Haiya Dragon in the anime and how alternate timelines work



Most people view this was an inconsistency, and rightfully so. But to me I think it's an opportunity for theory. I'll explain.



The first example here is Cooler, in which if you think about it spawns off around at most four timelines:

• Main timeline, leads into his cameo in Dragonball GT
• Timeline where Revenge of Cooler occurs
• Timeline where Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans occurs, in which Cooler's Revenge takes place after Freeza arc, which may place after Lord Slug
• Timeline where Fusion Reborn occurs

So effectively, the same event happens without it necessarily being the catalyst of an alternate timeline, or story. To put it in list form.

Timeline 1:
Saiyan arc
Freeza arc
Cooler's Revenge
Everything else

Timeline 2:
Saiyan arc
Freeza arc
Cooler's Revenge
Return of Cooler

Timeline 3:
Saiyan arc
The Tree of Might
Lord Slug
Freeza arc
Cooler's Revenge
Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan
Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans

Timeline 4:
Everything
Fusion Reborn

Not only do we have Cooler's Revenge happening anyway, but the Freeza arc also happens in all of these timelines.

In a sense, Cooler and Freeza's story is linked directly to the ideas of fate, and I feel this explains how Haiya Dragon exists in the anime continuity. He still met Gohan before Garlic Jr. arc, but it was different cause there wasn't any Tree of Might or Tullece. This point however leads into another point...

2. Fusion Reborn



While my previous point constructed a view of "it's an alternate timeline unless proven otherwise" stance, this one is about unity. I'll explain the base of this theory:

Every movie set in the Z era exists in a single canon, supported primarily by Fusion Reborn.

Not self-contained in Fusion Reborn's universe itself, but rather, the entire set of movies exist in a single continuity that works alongside a slightly different version of the events that happened in the anime. Points that support this:

Lack of Cell



The only movie in the entire series that mentions Cell is Bojack Unbound, which Cell is a catalyst to his return. Cell isn't in Fusion Reborn either, and several stories seem to take place alternate to the Cell arc. Instead, Super Android 13!, Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan, and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans happens. Maybe Bojack was considered "dead" when he was sealed by the Kaio, like in some Japanese mythology.

I think, however, that maybe a "lack of Cell" is too strong. While I'm saying Cell didn't exist in this theorized timeline, it's possible that he does...even in his Perfect form, and the way he was defeated (causing Bojack Unbound) could still happen, but the events that lead to it would have to be drastically different.

Bio-Broly -> Fusion Reborn



This may be pushing it, but I feel like it's probable that Bio-Broly leads directly into Fusion Reborn. Goku is directly told to take care of Broly who is terrorizing Hell, possibly explaining why he doesn't appear in Fusion Reborn (since his cameo would probably overshadow Janemba). You can use the argument that since they used the dragonballs in Broly - Second Coming that they can't use them later in Boo arc, but if my idea of how Fusion Reborn fits in is correct (Goku killing Boo himself the first time they fight) then I think it works pretty well.

If we can connect Bio-Broly with Fusion Reborn, one could also connect the other Broly movies and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans to Fusion Reborn, making them possibly in the same continuity.

Fusion Reborn cameos



Just going by Fusion Reborn itself...the following timeline for it should be this:

Dead Zone
Saiyan arc
The World's Strongest
The Tree of Might
Lord Slug
Freeza arc
Cooler's Revenge
Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan
Bojack Unbound
Boo arc
Fusion Reborn

This, however, is going by a single movie and it already encompasses a good portion of what we have. Now let's add in the missing pieces...

Dead Zone
Saiyan arc
The World's Strongest
The Tree of Might
Lord Slug
Freeza arc
Cooler's Revenge
Return of Cooler
Android arc
Super Android 13!
Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan
Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans
Bojack Unbound
Broly - Second Coming
Bio-Broly
Boo arc
Fusion Reborn
Wrath of the Dragon

In the above timeline, everything is fitted together. If you think of it only in terms of the movies, there is virtually no contradictions to them leading into each other with alternate events from the main timeline still taking place.

I emphasize the alternate aspect, clearly alternate events happened in some form or another here even in the movie's own continuity. I don't think that's really debatable at all.

However what I am saying is that I think it's probable that all the movies share the same "alternate" events in some form or another, with or without Cell. Even Wrath of the Dragon has a lack of Boo, which would tie into my idea that Fusion Reborn really does take place where Boo was killed by Goku.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts and ideas on this, and how exactly they think the movies fit.

[jjgp1112]

I don't think Movie 1 is canon. For one thing, nobody would be shocked that Goku had a son when they arrived on Roshi's Island, and Piccolo and Goku wouldn't find teaming up with each other to be such a foreign concept when they did it against Raditz, plus Goku would already know about Gohan's hidden power and wouldn't be so shocked when he injured Raditz. Movie 7 could take place in the timeline that Trunks from Cell's era traveled to. And not only that, but all of the movies couldn't fit in the main timeline - as you mentioned, Movies 3 and 4 seem to be presented as if they never went to Namek, and 4 in particular seems to have Goku at his Ginyu saga power level. Just how in the hell did they ever encounter Frieza? How do they know anything about the Namekians and why would there ever even be a New Namek for them to go to in Movie 6 since it never would've been destroyed? And why is Dende already the guardian?

[Herms]

I also like to state that I'll be using the dub names for the movies, cause they're easier to remember and I like them better than the original names. You may choose whatever you like, this is just a preference of mine personally.

I'm actually always surprised when I see people call the movies by any name, rather than just by number. The numbers are the shortest thing to call them by, and it cuts through Japanese/dub naming issues and the various alternate ways of translating the Japanese name. I suppose it's hard at first to keep track of their numbers, but it's not really that bad after you see them all, since while they're not part of the main series continuity they do have a quasi-chronological progression based on the section of the series they were made during. I also don't understand people who refer to episodes by name instead of number, but then I can never remember any episode names except maybe the most major.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm actually always surprised when I see people call the movies by any name, rather than just by number. The numbers are the shortest thing to call them by, and it cuts through Japanese/dub naming issues and the various alternate ways of translating the Japanese name. I suppose it's hard at first to keep track of their numbers, but it's not really that bad after you see them all, since while they're not part of the main series continuity they do have a quasi-chronological progression based on the section of the series they were made during. I also don't understand people who refer to episodes by name instead of number, but then I can never remember any episode names except maybe the most major.

I suppose that it might stem from the multiple numbering systems used as well, and what people consider a movie compared to others. To me, they still have to clarify in some manner. If someone just says something like "I like movie 4", do they mean Dead Zone, Path to Power, or Slug? I mean, do you number them in the order they were produced, or separate them by series, etc. Not to mention that some people lump in the TV specials, the Jump Special, the "OVA" and the remake into the mix as well. I find it isn't really a problem here on the board, but it comes up other places...

[Herms]

I suppose that it might stem from the multiple numbering systems used as well, and what people consider a movie compared to others. To me, they still have to clarify in some manner. If someone just says something like "I like movie 4", do they mean Dead Zone, Path to Power, or Slug?

Yeah, that's why I always try and specify "DB movie X" or "DBZ movie Y", and call Path to Power the "10th anniversary movie" (which is kind of a pain in the ass, but I don't talk about it often enough to bother switching to anything better).

Anyway, on the topic: I know Conan the SSJ made an alternate timeline with all the movies taking place in sequence. Anyone know which thread that was?

[dbgtFO]

Anyway, on the topic: I know Conan the SSJ made an alternate timeline with all the movies taking place in sequence. Anyone know which thread that was?

Sure do:
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... t=#p202217

[broly is god]

Wow I never looked at the fact that the end of Bio-Broly, Goku goes to hell to fight Broly, then you said that explains why Broly wasn't in Fusion Reborn. Haaaahaaaa because I paused the movie every time the dead bad guys popped up and I didn't see Broly. But even if Goku ¨defeated¨ Broly in hell after Bio-Broly the gates of hell opened up so, Broly could of popped out and said I'm baaaaack biotch. So my theory is that somebody would have to keep Broly like locked up or something. Unless Broly was caught in that jelly bean crap. It's not like Broly was killed by Goku in hell again. Yeah I just think they either left Broly out because if he came back that'd be his 4th movie, and it'd be too ¨original¨ or they left him out because Broly might have destroyed the earth or killed some people. Broly would have killed Gohan if Gohan tried to battle Broly. But thats a different topic to discuss. Oh reply if you agree or disagree

[Luke Groundwalker]

Also some points I regret not making more clear:

I mention the Cooler coincidence mainly cause my point is that even on different timelines, the same events can still happen despite the events not being a catalyst for anything. Stuff like Freeza arc still happens in most of these continuities, even though it may be different. I just introduced Haiya dragon as the base of my argument, since people tend to be confused why he's in both the movie continuity and the anime continuity.

Also if people don't know, my point about Broly is that while he isn't in the movie, Paragus and his men are, which is why I believe that Bio-Broly's ending leads right into his absence in Fusion Reborn...same timeline or not. It seems the first Broly is canon to Fusion Reborn, so I don't see why the sequels aren't either.

Here's my take on it...

Broly - Second Coming and Bio-Broly takes place around a year after Goku defeats Boo. The year before, Bulma wished for all the victims Vegeta killed to be revived, then used them again to restore the Earth back to normal after Boo terrorized it. Afterwards the dragonballs were free-roam, hence their availability in Broly - Second Coming. Before Goku died, he taught Trunks and Goten the fusion dance, which they later use in Fusion Reborn.

In Bio-Broly, Mr. Satan still hasn't paid 18 the money he owes her. She's apparently been waiting for a while and is losing her patience. Blah blah blah, the events of Bio-Broly happen, Goku and Paikhuan become established go-to guys in handling Hell-related matters after handling Broly in Hell.

Then Fusion Reborn happens.

That's how I see it at least.

[caejones]

Some interesting points have come up here!

For a while I've been interested in working out a way to deal with movie8, since someone (I think it was Duo?) pointed out that the character designs / abilities / Etc point to it taking place while Goku and Gohan are still in the RoSaT.
That could mean that it happens if Vegeta actually bothered finishing off Cell instead of letting him absorb #18, or some other such thing. But then it seems that all of the movies after movie8 require that something Cell related takes place--Goku has to die for 9-12, Kaio's planet has to be destroyed for 9 and 12, and we have the use of SSJ2 and SSJ3 to think about.

... Unless Goku was actually mortally wounded from his fight with Broli in movie8, and all the energy he absorbed from everyone else to deliver the Toei punch meant that when Dende and/or Senzu were used to try and heal him, he started to self-destruct, so teleported to Kaio's to protect the Earth.
... Sure, let's go with that. Just because it both works and nearly made me laugh. And heck, it should further please Broli fanboys.

[Nazi Cola]

If Goku taught the boys Fusion in Movie 10's timeline, how come they didn't use it or even hint at it? They did in Movie 12 and even in GT, so yeah.

[Fox666]

Were does Gotenks appeared in GT?

I'm actually always surprised when I see people call the movies by any name, rather than just by number. The numbers are the shortest thing to call them by, and it cuts through Japanese/dub naming issues and the various alternate ways of translating the Japanese name. I suppose it's hard at first to keep track of their numbers, but it's not really that bad after you see them all, since while they're not part of the main series continuity they do have a quasi-chronological progression based on the section of the series they were made during. I also don't understand people who refer to episodes by name instead of number, but then I can never remember any episode names except maybe the most major.

I suppose that it might stem from the multiple numbering systems used as well, and what people consider a movie compared to others. To me, they still have to clarify in some manner. If someone just says something like "I like movie 4", do they mean Dead Zone, Path to Power, or Slug? I mean, do you number them in the order they were produced, or separate them by series, etc. Not to mention that some people lump in the TV specials, the Jump Special, the "OVA" and the remake into the mix as well. I find it isn't really a problem here on the board, but it comes up other places...

Perhaps the best way to call the movies is by the name of the main villains?

1 - "Garlic Jr. movie"
2 - "Dr. Uiro movie"
3 - "Tullece movie"
4 - "Lord Slug movie"
5 - "Coola movie"
6 - "Coola second movie"
7 - "No. 13 movie"
8 - "Broli movie"
9 - "Bojack movie"
10 - "Broli second movie"
11 - "Broli third movie"
12 - "Janemba movie"
13 - "Hildegarn movie"