Screenshots of Dragon Ball Manga on VIZ Manga App (iPhone)

[Nex Carnifex]

Did mah research, dragon ball falls in the same category as full metal alchemist. Teenagers! Both can be disturbing. If it were any younger it would be considered childrens, not shonen

[monster]

Hmmm, Fist of the North Star is a shonen series just like Dragonball.If you translated that into english do people really think swears like "fuck" and "shit" would be out of place in that series even though it was targeted at younger audiences in Japan?

To Love Ru is also a Shonen Jump series but I don't think 7 year old boys would quite appreciate that series.

The official Funimation DVDs of Dragonball translate "kuso" into "shit" anyway don't they?

[The Time Traveller]

The official Funimation DVDs of Dragonball translate "kuso" into "shit" anyway don't they?

I think it usually gets translated as "Damn!"

[SHINOBI-03]

Did mah research, dragon ball falls in the same category as full metal alchemist. Teenagers! Both can be disturbing. If it were any younger it would be considered childrens, not shonen

And shounen according to the Japanese law ranges from the age of 10 to 15. So it's still for kids.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Hmmm, Fist of the North Star is a shonen series just like Dragonball.If you translated that into english do people really think swears like "fuck" and "shit" would be out of place in that series even though it was targeted at younger audiences in Japan?

To Love Ru is also a Shonen Jump series but I don't think 7 year old boys would quite appreciate that series.

I agree with the fact that there are some series that are published in SJ that appeal to certain age groups.

For example Death Note is a SJ series but many people treat it like a seinen series, even the Japanese themselves view it in a similar way. Though Death Note is kind of a light seinen rather than a strong one I'd say.

But I don't think Dragonball is even close to that type of demographic. All of the perversion jokes are the equivalent of poop jokes (which Dragonball also features) at best, it's just not really frowned upon by Japanese back in the day. You can thank Go Nagai for being the father of perversion in shonen manga.

In tone and level of readership, Dragonball is very much a boy's series. There's a reason to why the entire series appeals primarily to children across the entire world.

[AgitoZ]

Thought I could stop posting in this dumb thread, that has gone so off topic it's not even funny. But I keep coming back. Ugh.

Did mah research, dragon ball falls in the same category as full metal alchemist. Teenagers! Both can be disturbing. If it were any younger it would be considered childrens, not shonen

Boy, you really, desperately, want Dragon Ball to be for an older age group, huh? But before I start calling you out on it, what exactly was this research you speak of?

I agree with the fact that there are some series that are published in SJ that appeal to certain age groups.

For example Death Note is a SJ series but many people treat it like a seinen series, even the Japanese themselves view it in a similar way. Though Death Note is kind of a light seinen rather than a strong one I'd say.

But I don't think Dragonball is even close to that type of demographic. All of the perversion jokes are the equivalent of poop jokes (which Dragonball also features) at best, it's just not really frowned upon by Japanese back in the day.

Death Note isn't all that complex. It definitely was smarter and more clever than other series in the magazine, but I wouldn't go that far. It was a fairly well written thriller for kids, that older people could also enjoy. Death Note and Dragon Ball were written for the same audience.

Just cause other age groups enjoy doesn't mean it was ever intended for them.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Death Note isn't all that complex. It definitely was smarter and more clever than other series in the magazine, but I wouldn't go that far. It was a fairly well written thriller for kids, that older people could also enjoy. Death Note and Dragon Ball were written for the same audience.

Just cause other age groups enjoy doesn't mean it was ever intended for them.

I never said Death Note was anything more than that. I just said that people normally consider it to be more mature, even in the country of origin, which is in contrast to a series like Dragonball which isn't considered to be anything more than it actually is. To say otherwise is downright grasping at straws. Repeating exactly my point to go against my point just damages your case more than helps it.

[AgitoZ]

I never said Death Note was anything more than that. I just said that people normally consider it to be more mature, even in the country of origin, which is in contrast to a series like Dragonball which isn't considered to be anything more say otherwise is downright grasping at straws.

Though Death Note is kind of a light seinen rather than a strong one I'd say.

But I don't think Dragonball is even close to that type of demographic.

You acted like DN and DB weren't even in the same demographic. If you didn't mean to sound that way, than I'm sorry for misunderstanding, but you didn't exactly make it very clear.

I wasn't trying to go against your point, just pointing out DN shouldn't be thought of as so mature. I'd also like to know your source for "DN is considered more in the country of origin". DN is way overrated either way.

[KiddoCabbusses]

"Kuso" is certainly not taboo or offensive in the same sense curse words are. There are people out there who will get offended if you simply say "damn." The Japanese don't do this, because they don't consider any of their words to be curse words on a social or cultural level. I doubt they even consider English curse words to be curse words either.

I'll just basically confirm what you're saying by giving the anime "Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt" as an example - a show where half the jokes are about the characters "cussing" in Engrish, and basically doing/saying all sorts of things you couldn't get away with on American television by, uh, being on Japanese television instead.

[AgitoZ]

I'll just basically confirm what you're saying by giving the anime "Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt" as an example - a show where half the jokes are about the characters "cussing" in Engrish, and basically doing/saying all sorts of things you couldn't get away with on American television by, uh, being on Japanese television instead.

That doesn't exactly prove much. You could usually get away with swearing in another language basically anywhere, as long the censors don't notice. Not to mention that show airs late at night, and isn't for kids.

Edit: Forgot to mention, since the whole joke is that their swearing, you can say they do consider them swears.

[Luke Groundwalker]

You acted like DN and DB weren't even in the same demographic. If you didn't mean to sound that way, than I'm sorry for misunderstanding, but you didn't exactly make it very clear.

No what I said is that Death Note is kind of like a light seinen, while Dragonball is not even close to reaching a demographic like that. I never said it was a straight up adult manga.

But to me demographic holds no importance. Steel Ball Run, the 7th part of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, is targeted towards the young adult demographic when the first six series targeted the same demographic as Dragonball did. If you've read the entire series like I have then you'd know that pretty much all the previous parts are way more violent and adult in theme than Steel Ball Run is in terms of tone, despite the different demographic.

However Dragonball isn't even remotely in a case similar to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It's quite clear who it was made for and who is appeals to primarily, and that is for young boys.

I wasn't trying to go against your point, just pointing out DN shouldn't be thought of as so mature. I'd also like to know your source for "DN is considered more in the country of origin". DN is way overrated either way.

I can't give you a source specifically but I'm pretty positive Death Note has a very strong teenager following similar in the United States. You have to remember also that the anime version is the most widely known version of the series, and includes openings from bands that appeal to teens with a style and tone that appeals to a more older crowd (you can thank Madhouse for that). Now if the adaptation was done by TOEI on the other hand...

And in contrast, the manga-ka tends to do two different styles: Serious and cartoony styles. Serious style is like what he did with Death Note, while cartoony is more along the lines of Hikaru no Go and Bakuman. So Death Note has a pretty large contrast compared to his other series, even if it's published in a shonen magazine.

That doesn't exactly prove much. You could usually get away with swearing in another language basically anywhere, as long the censors don't notice. Not to mention that show airs late at night, and isn't for kids.

Edit: Forgot to mention, since the whole joke is that their swearing, you can say they do consider them swears.

Yeah I'm pretty positive that's the joke. But what I meant that sometimes teenagers in Japan will wear random shirts with English curse words without knowing the context of them outside of one of their favorite English songs.

Panty and Stocking is a different case because the people who made it are very aware of English culture and language. The damn thing is brimming with American cartoon references.

All of this, however, doesn't mean that the Japanese language has curse words itself. To say they do is complete, utterly false on almost every level. To say that they have the ability to offend others using words is correct, but curse words as a concept doesn't exist in the Japanese language.

[AgitoZ]

But to me demographic holds no importance. Steel Ball Run, the 7th part of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, is targeted towards the young adult demographic when the first six series targeted the same demographic as Dragonball did. If you've read the entire series like I have then you'd know that pretty much all the previous parts are way more violent and adult in theme than Steel Ball Run is in terms of tone, despite the different demographic.

Well its funny. Steel Ball Run did run in Weekly Shonen Jump for a while until they moved it to Ultra Jump. It's just like past JoJo series it just seems they decided it isn't appropriate anymore for young boys, for some reason. Sorta like how they decided in Kai that Goku's penis wasn't appropriate nowadays.

I can't give you a source specifically but I'm pretty positive Death Note has a very strong teenager following similar in the United States. You have to remember also that the anime version is the most widely known version of the series, and includes openings from bands that appeal to teens with a style and tone that appeals to a more older crowd (you can thank Madhouse for that). Now if the adaptation was done by TOEI on the other hand...

And in contrast, the manga-ka tends to do two different styles: Serious and cartoony styles. Serious style is like what he did with Death Note, while cartoony is more along the lines of Hikaru no Go and Bakuman. So Death Note has a pretty large contrast compared to his other series, even if it's published in a shonen magazine.

I wouldn't say that. In fact in Japan the manga is usually the most popular and the openings don't say that much. But I'll agree they were certainly aiming for that audience, at least the anime was.

As for the their styles I wouldn't say they're that different. I think the duo's manga aren't varying in maturity. I guess DN's subject matter just automatically makes it seem that way.

[Nex Carnifex]

Did mah research, dragon ball falls in the same category as full metal alchemist. Teenagers! Both can be disturbing. If it were any younger it would be considered childrens, not shonen

And shounen according to the Japanese law ranges from the age of 10 to 15. So it's still for kids.

I don't disagree with you just wondering where you got this information I can't find it anywhere all I can find is that it ranges from 10 through high school. And Death Note is a shonen as well, it is just the opposite of Dragon Ball in that it is depressing instead of overwhelmingly optimistic.

[Nex Carnifex]

Thought I could stop posting in this dumb thread, that has gone so off topic it's not even funny. But I keep coming back. Ugh.

Did mah research, dragon ball falls in the same category as full metal alchemist. Teenagers! Both can be disturbing. If it were any younger it would be considered childrens, not shonen

Boy, you really, desperately, want Dragon Ball to be for an older age group, huh? But before I start calling you out on it, what exactly was this research you speak of?

I agree with the fact that there are some series that are published in SJ that appeal to certain age groups.

For example Death Note is a SJ series but many people treat it like a seinen series, even the Japanese themselves view it in a similar way. Though Death Note is kind of a light seinen rather than a strong one I'd say.

But I don't think Dragonball is even close to that type of demographic. All of the perversion jokes are the equivalent of poop jokes (which Dragonball also features) at best, it's just not really frowned upon by Japanese back in the day.

Death Note isn't all that complex. It definitely was smarter and more clever than other series in the magazine, but I wouldn't go that far. It was a fairly well written thriller for kids, that older people could also enjoy. Death Note and Dragon Ball were written for the same audience.

Just cause other age groups enjoy doesn't mean it was ever intended for them.

"Well all the sources point to it not being for young kids. I don't get where you are getting otherwise from. Wikipedia states shonen manga is pretty much for boys roughly 10 and up, through high school. Where are you getting your facts from? The rating is for teens, the readership is mostly teens, the content is certainly exceptionally dark and violent at parts as well as the humor being perverted mostly likely in the taste of a high school child undergoing puberty, websites cite it as being for early to late teens, the pure, unedited Japanese version contains things like shooting old people and jokes no 7 year old would understand nor appreciate. But some adult men who read it on a forum say its solely intended for young children, ok, that totally negates everything else."

I already posted that I just don't want to type up anything again. All I did was search the internet for a few minutes and I couldn't find anywhere saying shonen was below 10 years or not intended for high school kids as well. I agree with you about Death Note, it's just more emo and stylistically darker, doesn't mean it was written for a different audience.

[TripleRach]

This is getting pretty off-topic, but I can't resist being part of the problem here...

There's one big example of the word shounen being used within Dragon Ball itself: the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai. It's split into the Adults/Senior (otona) Division and Kids/Junior/Youth (shounen) Division. The Kids Division includes all kids under 15, including 7 year old Goten and 8 year old Trunks. I don't think they were the only kids under 10 there, but I can't remember any other specific examples off the top of my head.

Just sayin'.

[Bussani]

All I did was search the internet for a few minutes and I couldn't find anywhere saying shonen was below 10 years or not intended for high school kids as well.

According to Wikipedia:

According to Japanese law, the term "shonen" refers to "a person from the time they enter elementary school until the time they are 15 years of age" (Child Welfare Laws (児童福祉法, Jidō Fukushi Hō), Article 4.3)

Japanese elementary school starts at age 6. Japanese high school starts at 15. But like people keep saying, just because something was written with one demographic in mind doesn't mean other people can't enjoy it.

[rereboy]

But like people keep saying, just because something was written with one demographic in mind doesn't mean other people can't enjoy it.

Exactly. Just because the creators had a certain demographic in mind, it doesn't mean that other demographics can't enjoy it...

A good thing about most shonen manga and anime is that they hold themselves better with older demographics than many western cartoons which tend to treat kids a little too much like little kids without any hint of a serious/more adult subject.

Shonen manga and anime usually tends to have a certain degree of conflict of good and evil engraved in it and concepts like the importance of friends and family and the need to better ourselves to overcome obstacles, all these treated with a fair degree of seriousness, as well as plenty of action and humor to entertain.
So, shonen manga and anime usually tends to guide kids and teenagers into adulthood with these positive notions... But these are notions that even adults can relate to, so its easy for an older demographic to also like it.