How strong is Satan?

[Nex Carnifex]

I believe he's stronger than Kuririn before he was trained by Master Roshi definitely, and also stronger than those bullies Kuririn was scared of at the tournament. I think he might have stood a chance against start Yamcha as well, but that is about as far as he gets? Anyone disagree?

[rereboy]

I believe he's stronger than Kuririn before he was trained by Master Roshi definitely, and also stronger than those bullies Kuririn was scared of at the tournament. I think he might have stood a chance against start Yamcha as well, but that is about as far as he gets? Anyone disagree?

I think he is even weaker than Goku when we first see Goku. Goku was able to toss Bulma's car in the first chapter of Dragon Ball... I'm not sure Mr. Satan would be able to do that. I kind of doubt it.

[Nex Carnifex]

I believe he's stronger than Kuririn before he was trained by Master Roshi definitely, and also stronger than those bullies Kuririn was scared of at the tournament. I think he might have stood a chance against start Yamcha as well, but that is about as far as he gets? Anyone disagree?

I think he is even weaker than Goku when we first see Goku. Goku was able to toss Bulma's car in the first chapter of Dragon Ball... I'm not sure Mr. Satan would be able to do that. I kind of doubt it.

Yeah and Kuririn was much weaker than Goku at that time as well. Goku's strength and speed was clearly much greater than Kuririn's, him being a not human and all. I think they make that pretty clear when Kuririn and Goku start training together.

[Nex Carnifex]

He is one of the weakest characters in the series, Goku at the first chapters where much stronger then him. Mr. Satan feats such as able to take hits from Cell and Buu are just joke feats, I don't think they should be taken seriously.

Maybe it just runs in the family that they can take beatings, Videl got the shit beaten out of her by Spopovich and survived, and I don't remember Cell putting any force behind his attack.

[dbgtFO]

Maybe it just runs in the family that they can take beatings, Videl got the shit beaten out of her by Spopovich and survived, and I don't remember Cell putting any force behind his attack.

He didn't. Trunks didn't either at the 25th Tournament, he just gently tapped his face. And Kid Buu while not stated to hold back logically did, since that seems to be the theme with his so called tanking feats anyways.

[rereboy]

I believe he's stronger than Kuririn before he was trained by Master Roshi definitely, and also stronger than those bullies Kuririn was scared of at the tournament. I think he might have stood a chance against start Yamcha as well, but that is about as far as he gets? Anyone disagree?

I think he is even weaker than Goku when we first see Goku. Goku was able to toss Bulma's car in the first chapter of Dragon Ball... I'm not sure Mr. Satan would be able to do that. I kind of doubt it.

Yeah and Kuririn was much weaker than Goku at that time as well. Goku's strength and speed was clearly much greater than Kuririn's, him being a not human and all. I think they make that pretty clear when Kuririn and Goku start training together.

Not sure about that. Goku might be stronger than Krilin at that point but Krillin was able to jump dozens of meters into the air to reach Roshi's island (and row all the way over there) and on their first training exercise Krillin was able to dodge and knock out a sabertooth tiger.



So, Krillin was already very strong compared to a regular human at that point. Would Mr. Satan be able to do the same? I doubt it.

[Nex Carnifex]

Yeah and Kuririn was much weaker than Goku at that time as well. Goku's strength and speed was clearly much greater than Kuririn's, him being a not human and all. I think they make that pretty clear when Kuririn and Goku start training together.

Not sure about that. Goku might be stronger than Krilin at that point but Krillin was able to jump dozens of meters into the air to reach Roshi's island (and row all the way over there) and on their first training exercise Krillin was able to dodge and knock out a sabertooth tiger.



So, Krillin was already very strong compared to a regular human at that point. Would Mr. Satan be able to do the same? I doubt it.

I'm sure he'd be able to take out a saber tooth, maybe not as nimbly as Kuririn but if he can punch through metal he can knock out a cat pretty easily. And there is no way original Kuririn could take on the Bear Bandit if he is scared of a little saber tooth, start Goku>>>start Kuririn.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even though it was a gag, Kuririn tanked bullets with little to no damage. Mr. Satan collapsed and potentially would've died from one, had Boo not healed him.

[Fox666]

It was a gag, but it was still meant that Goku, Kuririn or Kame-sennin can withstand bullets. Or do you think that a "gag" involving Bulma or Lunch being shot by bullets could have happened as well?

but if he can punch through metal

When does Satan did that?

[Piccolo Daimao]

It was a gag, but it was still meant that Goku, Kuririn or Kame-sennin can withstand bullets. Or do you think that a "gag" involving Bulma or Lunch being shot by bullets could have happened as well?

I'm not disputing the validity of the scene. I only mentioned the fact that it was a gag in case someone replied with something along the lines of "It's just a gag scene, so it doesn't mean anything."

[dbgtFO]

Even though it was a gag, Kuririn tanked bullets with little to no damage.

I got the impression the bullets actually went through their heads as opposed to Goku, whose head wasn't penetrated by it(we see Krillin and Kame-sennin bleed, but Goku just has a bruise or at least it appears to only be a bruise for Goku, since he doesn't bleed).

I take it to mean Goku's skin is simply more durable than theirs(even though Kame-sennin has more ki than him by this point), which makes sense given that Goku is a Saiyan(though at that point in time he was just abnormally strong).

Of course, when Bulma guns them down about 12 years later, they still bleed, but they were being hit while sleeping, so on some level it makes sense that their ki was low enough for that to happen.

So I'm basically trying to say that, if it wasn't for the fact that it was a gag, they should have died or at least be close to death, since the bullets actually penetrated their skin, so I don't consider it a feat greater than Mr. Satan's feats.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even though it was a gag, Kuririn tanked bullets with little to no damage.

I got the impression the bullets actually went through their heads as opposed to Goku, whose head wasn't penetrated by it(we see Krillin and Kame-sennin bleed, but Goku just has a bruise or at least it appears to only be a bruise for Goku, since he doesn't bleed).

I take it to mean Goku's skin is simply more durable than theirs(even though Kame-sennin has more ki than him by this point), which makes sense given that Goku is a Saiyan(though at that point in time he was just abnormally strong).

Of course, when Bulma guns them down about 12 years later, they still bleed, but they were being hit while sleeping, so on some level it makes sense that their ki was low enough for that to happen.

So I'm basically trying to say that, if it wasn't for the fact that it was a gag, they should have died or at least be close to death, since the bullets actually penetrated their skin, so I don't consider it a feat greater than Mr. Satan's feats.

...

What? I don't see how you can interpret it in any other way than "Lunch shot them and it hit them".

Either way, it shows that, being incredibly strong martial artists, Goku, Kuririn and Kame-sennin can be shot and take little to no damage from it. There's no reason to doubt that they're that strong because Goku was previously shown to tank a bullet, Kame-sennin's a legendary martial arts master who's much stronger than Goku and Kuririn can knock out a sabre-toothed tiger in one hit and at least outrun a Goku with busted shoes.

It's not something like Goku going to the moon, which can be excluded by saying "It's a gag scene" because it was clearly contradicted later in the series when both Freeza and Kaio say that only Freeza can survive in space.

[dbgtFO]

...

What? I don't see how you can interpret it in any other way than "Lunch shot them and it hit them".

I got the impression the bullets actually went through their heads as opposed to Goku, whose head wasn't penetrated by it(we see Krillin and Kame-sennin bleed, but Goku just has a bruise or at least it appears to only be a bruise for Goku, since he doesn't bleed).

Wasn't this clear enough? Krillin and Kame-sennin are shown with bullet holes, whereas Goku is not. If it wasn't for the fact that it was a gag, it should have obviously killed Krillin and Kame, yet it didn't.

Or perhaps you're trying to say that it doesn't matter the bullets penetrated them?

[Piccolo Daimao]

...

What? I don't see how you can interpret it in any other way than "Lunch shot them and it hit them".

I got the impression the bullets actually went through their heads as opposed to Goku, whose head wasn't penetrated by it(we see Krillin and Kame-sennin bleed, but Goku just has a bruise or at least it appears to only be a bruise for Goku, since he doesn't bleed).

Wasn't this clear enough? Krillin and Kame-sennin are shown with bullet holes, whereas Goku is not. If it wasn't for the fact that it was a gag, it should have obviously killed Krillin and Kame, yet it didn't.

Or perhaps you're trying to say that it doesn't matter the bullets penetrated them?

Yes, it doesn't matter that the bullets penetrated them. You're over-analyzing the scene. Whether or not the bullets penetrated them, it doesn't make the scene any less valid.

[Fox666]

Right on chapter 1 we see Bulma shooting Goku in the head. So it's quite clear that all strong character will be able to do it too.

[Nex Carnifex]

You know when Bulma's teeth get sharp when she is mad? Same deal with Kuririn getting shot, it is a gag used to evoke an emotion comically.

[TripleRach]

Resistance to bullets in early Dragon Ball isn't always comical. There was nothing funny or silly about Bora's fight with Yellow's men, where Bora was completely unaffected by multiple gunshots to the chest. Gokuu being shot in the first chapter was played mostly straight, too.

[In Brightest Day]

I'm sure he'd be able to take out a saber tooth, maybe not as nimbly as Kuririn but if he can punch through metal he can knock out a cat pretty easily.

This never happened. Mr. Satan's best feat is breaking 14 tiles, and struggling a LOT to do so. So, Kuririn being weaker than Son Goku at the start (or any stage of the series, for that matter) is completely irrelevent, because Mr. Satan is never close to Goku's strength either. Briefly holding his own against Son Goku & casually knocking out a Sabertooth Tiger > struggling to break 14 tiles. Mr. Satan is obviously a decent fighter, but he can't do anything against the likes of Roshi, Goku, Yamcha & Kuririn. They're above human limits in their first appearances, Hercule isn't.

[Nex Carnifex]

I'm sure he'd be able to take out a saber tooth, maybe not as nimbly as Kuririn but if he can punch through metal he can knock out a cat pretty easily.

This never happened. Mr. Satan's best feat is breaking 14 tiles, and struggling a LOT to do so. So, Kuririn being weaker than Son Goku at the start (or any stage of the series, for that matter) is completely irrelevent, because Mr. Satan is never close to Goku's strength either. Briefly holding his own against Son Goku & casually knocking out a Sabertooth Tiger > struggling to break 14 tiles. Mr. Satan is obviously a decent fighter, but he can't do anything against the likes of Roshi, Goku, Yamcha & Kuririn. They're above human limits in their first appearances, (the H-word) isn't.

Don't know about the manga but at least in the anime it did, car doors are made out of metal, and as we all know Satan did a lot of Tenkaichi tournaments, you wouldn't say that puts him above human limits? Kuririn was scared of those bully monks he came across during the 1st tournament, meaning he probably wasn't anything too special before being trained by Roshi. Satan was, he won many tournaments against many fighters. 14 tiles is a lot, if someone hit you with that breaking forced you'd be knocked out too. All Kuririn knocked out was a wild animal, Satan has probably knocked out hundreds of trained fighters. And Kuririn stood no chance against Goku, I see the same for Satan but he'd probably be able to stand just a bit longer, after all he survived (effortless) attacks from Cell. He's made to look very weak because all the characters have become so strong, but he definitely ranks with early low level characters like Kuririn and Yamcha, who weren't even supposed to be very special in the Dragon Ball universe.

[Nazi Cola]

I'm sure he'd be able to take out a saber tooth, maybe not as nimbly as Kuririn but if he can punch through metal he can knock out a cat pretty easily.

This never happened. Mr. Satan's best feat is breaking 14 tiles, and struggling a LOT to do so. So, Kuririn being weaker than Son Goku at the start (or any stage of the series, for that matter) is completely irrelevent, because Mr. Satan is never close to Goku's strength either. Briefly holding his own against Son Goku & casually knocking out a Sabertooth Tiger > struggling to break 14 tiles. Mr. Satan is obviously a decent fighter, but he can't do anything against the likes of Roshi, Goku, Yamcha & Kuririn. They're above human limits in their first appearances, (the H-word) isn't.

Don't know about the manga but at least in the anime it did, car doors are made out of metal, and as we all know Satan did a lot of Tenkaichi tournaments, you wouldn't say that puts him above human limits? Kuririn was scared of those bully monks he came across during the 1st tournament, meaning he probably wasn't anything too special before being trained by Roshi. Satan was, he won many tournaments against many fighters. 14 tiles is a lot, if someone hit you with that breaking forced you'd be knocked out too. All Kuririn knocked out was a wild animal, Satan has probably knocked out hundreds of trained fighters. And Kuririn stood no chance against Goku, I see the same for Satan but he'd probably be able to stand just a bit longer, after all he survived (effortless) attacks from Cell. He's made to look very weak because all the characters have become so strong, but he definitely ranks with early low level characters like Kuririn and Yamcha, who weren't even supposed to be very special in the Dragon Ball universe.

He didn't even knock out a gunman in a couple hits when he was enraged over Bee's death.