FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

[MarcFBR]

If you can remember I said that it was the last time I was going to talk about it. The bit rates were fine and allowed compression to go up to 40mb. As for 4:3 and AAC in bd. Its not standard for blu ray but Yes it can be used. I use it all the time. AAC is most commonly found in MPEG-2 Blu rays. I will not talk about it any longer.

I'll try this politely.

I'm a staff member. I give you permission to discuss it and provide links to evidence that such a thing exists.

This is your chance to prove me wrong.

Link me to evidence that 1440x1080 4:3 and AAC audio is in the Blu-ray spec.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong when it's proven I am, I just require more than your word. I've certainly never seen either of those on a disk, or any evidence they are part of the spec.

And simply putting it on a Blu-ray and having it work in random players doesn't count as 'working.' I require actual evidence that it is part of the spec that anyone making a Blu-ray can use for a disk that can universally work.

If you don't provide proper evidence, you are effectively admitting you really don't know what you are talking about though.

[SSJMan]

If you can remember I said that it was the last time I was going to talk about it. The bit rates were fine and allowed compression to go up to 40mb. As for 4:3 and AAC in bd. Its not standard for blu ray but Yes it can be used. I use it all the time. AAC is most commonly found in MPEG-2 Blu rays. I will not talk about it any longer.

I'll try this politely.

I'm a staff member. I give you permission to discuss it and provide links to evidence that such a thing exists.

This is your chance to prove me wrong.

Link me to evidence that 1440x1080 4:3 and AAC audio is in the Blu-ray spec.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong when it's proven I am, I just require more than your word. I've certainly never seen either of those on a disk, or any evidence they are part of the spec.

And simply putting it on a Blu-ray and having it work in random players doesn't count as 'working.' I require actual evidence that it is part of the spec that anyone making a Blu-ray can use for a disk that can universally work.

If you don't provide proper evidence, you are effectively admitting you really don't know what you are talking about though.

Well you have me there. Not all Blu ray players if not updated will play aac audio. And aac is not a Primary audio stream standard for blu ray players. I cant find much about the issue online. What I Wanted to do for you was Export a quick file for you to burn on a dvd then put onto an blu ray player, just to show you. But the industry Letterboxes 4:3 in 16:9, which I never understood, mainly because you can save a little space if it were 4:3 and it would be able to play on a SD tv without a border all around the picture. But I was asked what I would do and not the industry. I would still like to export a file for you.

[MarcFBR]

Well you have me there. Not all Blu ray players if not updated will play aac audio. And aac is not a Primary audio stream standard for blu ray players. I cant find much about the issue online. What I Wanted to do for you was Export a quick file for you to burn on a dvd then put onto an blu ray player, just to show you. But the industry Letterboxes 4:3 in 16:9, which I never understood, mainly because you can save a little space if it were 4:3 and it would be able to play on a SD tv without a border all around the picture. But I was asked what I would do and not the industry. I would still like to export a file for you.

I'm sure Bussani can pop in and clarify, but I thought he was pretty clear in his post.

He asked you how you would set it up if it were to be done on three disks.

As in if you were doing the sets.

If you are doing the sets, you can't just ignore the spec. You say you are a professional, you should know better. If someone asks you 'How would you make the DVD of Generic Film X better' you can't just go "Well I'd use the AVC codec instead of MPEG2" because AVC won't work for a commercial DVD.


AAC isn't a primary on Blu-ray, it isn't an option. It is not part of the spec for Blu-ray... period.

There are multiple reasons why BDs pillarbox content, but no real reason to go into it (and it's pillarboxed in this case, not letterboxed.)

[Corpsecreate]

So hold on a second, are you saying that the actual episodes are encoded at a 16:9 ratio where the extra sides is just black? If it is thats a huge waste of bitrate :/

[Levlik]

So hold on a second, are you saying that the actual episodes are encoded at a 16:9 ratio where the extra sides is just black? If it is thats a huge waste of bitrate :/

Yes. If you play the BDs on a 4:3 TV you'll basically be looking at 16:9 footage in 4:3. Like a box within the TV. I'm not even sure if Blu-Rays can be encoded in 4:3 formats.

[MarcFBR]

So hold on a second, are you saying that the actual episodes are encoded at a 16:9 ratio where the extra sides is just black? If it is thats a huge waste of bitrate :/

A two color block doesn't use much bitrate, especially with AVC.

Yes. If you play the BDs on a 4:3 TV you'll basically be looking at 16:9 footage in 4:3. Like a box within the TV. I'm not even sure if Blu-Rays can be encoded in 4:3 formats.

I believe you can with 480i/p using MPEG2 (I believe I've seen it with VC1 also... I'd assume so with AVC also... but not sure.)

They aren't really meant to be viewed on 4:3 TVs. It was basically decided to try and have less potential issues come up in video (since BD has plenty of potential issues already) than dealing with flags and anamorphic features. It can do the specific anamorphic stuff DVD did, and it can do 1440x1080 at 16:9 (mostly because many camcorders do that, and it's also used for broadcasting on occasion.)

It effectively takes the TV and and player out of the decision.

[SSJMan]

avc 4:3 http://filefactory.com/file/cfa3e6b/n/43.m2ts

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

So basically BD generally was set-up with 16:9 in minds, while DVDs are 4:3?

[SSJMan]

So basically BD generally was set-up with 16:9 in minds, while DVDs are 4:3?

Both dvd and BD may do 16:9 and 4:3.

[Pokewhiz7]

Bluray is superior in all aspects.

Not the fucked up way it handles aspect ratios.

Both dvd and BD may do 16:9 and 4:3.

No, BD can only do 16:9. 4:3 content has to have black bars hard coded into the image, thus wasting disk space and sacrificing image quality.

[Puto]

avc 4:3 http://filefactory.com/file/cfa3e6b/n/43.m2ts

I don't think there was ever any doubt you could do 4:3 in an AVC stream. The problem is if it's valid to use that on a commercial Blu-ray -- last I heard, it's not.

No, BD can only do 16:9. 4:3 content has to have black bars hard coded into the image, thus wasting disk space and sacrificing image quality.

Two single-color bars aren't going to be taking a lot of space with AVC, seriously.

Quoting a friend of mine, "my experience with encoding shows that a black border compresses to just about nothing."

[SSJMan]

I don't think there was ever any doubt you could do 4:3 in an AVC stream. The problem is if it's valid to use that on a commercial Blu-ray -- last I heard, it's not.

No, it was how I would do it. Someone creating a blu ray disc may do 4:3 if they want. But for the most part its done with letterbox.

[MarcFBR]

avc 4:3 http://filefactory.com/file/cfa3e6b/n/43.m2ts

That file is worthless. Giving us a random m2ts doesn't mean anything. It isn't in the BD structure, and I certainly wouldn't waste a BD-R to do a single test file.

It's a very nice still frame without audio though.

No, it was how I would do it. Someone creating a blu ray disc may do 4:3 if they want. But for the most part its done with letterbox.

Sure someone could do it and throw it on the disk, but it wouldn't match the spec.

If it doesn't match the spec, it's worthless as far as being a commercially sold disk.

If you are making a disk as a professional, the disk has to WORK with any number of players that you may never see.

Which is why every single 1080p 4:3 Blu-ray is 1920x1080 with pillarboxes. To fit the spec. If it doesn't fit the spec, you are not doing your job in making a Blu-ray.

No, BD can only do 16:9. 4:3 content has to have black bars hard coded into the image, thus wasting disk space and sacrificing image quality.

Two single-color bars aren't going to be taking a lot of space with AVC, seriously.

Quoting a friend of mine, "my experience with encoding shows that a black border compresses to just about nothing."

What Puto said.

[SSJMan]

No, it was how I would do it. Someone creating a blu ray disc may do 4:3 if they want. But for the most part its done with letterbox.

Sure someone could do it and throw it on the disk, but it wouldn't match the spec.

If it doesn't match the spec, it's worthless as far as being a commercially sold disk.

If you are making a disk as a professional, the disk has to WORK with any number of players that you may never see.

Which is why every single 1080p 4:3 Blu-ray is 1920x1080 with pillarboxes. To fit the spec. If it doesn't fit the spec, you are not doing your job in making a Blu-ray.

No, BD can only do 16:9. 4:3 content has to have black bars hard coded into the image, thus wasting disk space and sacrificing image quality.

Two single-color bars aren't going to be taking a lot of space with AVC, seriously.

Quoting a friend of mine, "my experience with encoding shows that a black border compresses to just about nothing."

What Puto said.

All players can handle 4:3. Show me one player that cant take it.

[Ashura]

SSJMan.

To get to the point of the conversation and their original question...

If you were authoring this set on 3 disks following spec, how would you author the disks differently than Funimation did?

I think that's all you would really need to answer to move forward from here.

[Freeza Heika]

All players can handle 4:3. Show me one player that cant take it.

It is not a matter of showing you one that can't do it. The standard doesn't require anything to do it, and if there is or ever will be one that can't, a professional product has to work with it.

[MarcFBR]

MANY THINGS!

All players can handle 4:3. Show me one player that cant take it.

But once again, you are missing the point.

I don't need to test a 1440x1080 4:3 BD in a single player.

Do you know why?

It isn't in the spec. If it isn't in the spec, you don't do it. Because you don't build in a potential problem you can fix at step 1. No company would be stupid enough to potentially have an issue like that. Which is why you can't name a SINGLE commercial disk that has done it. Because professionals know better.


or since Heika said it well...

It is not a matter of showing you one that can't do it. The standard doesn't require anything to do it, and if there is or ever will be one that can't, a professional product has to work with it.

Bam.

[SSJMan]

SSJMan.

To get to the point of the conversation and their original question...

If you were authoring this set on 3 disks following spec, how would you author the disks differently than Funimation did?

I think that's all you would really need to answer to move forward from here.

And I did. But MarcFBR always has something to say.

[SSJMan]

MANY THINGS!

All players can handle 4:3. Show me one player that cant take it.

But once again, you are missing the point.

I don't need to test a 1440x1080 4:3 BD in a single player.

Do you know why?

It isn't in the spec. If it isn't in the spec, you don't do it. Because you don't build in a potential problem you can fix at step 1. No company would be stupid enough to potentially have an issue like that. Which is why you can't name a SINGLE commercial disk that has done it. Because professionals know better.


or since Heika said it well...

It is not a matter of showing you one that can't do it. The standard doesn't require anything to do it, and if there is or ever will be one that can't, a professional product has to work with it.

Bam.

Now you are just talking without knowing. By

[MarcFBR]

SSJMan.

To get to the point of the conversation and their original question...

If you were authoring this set on 3 disks following spec, how would you author the disks differently than Funimation did?

I think that's all you would really need to answer to move forward from here.

And I did. But MarcFBR always has something to say.

1440x1080 at 4:3 with AAC audio is not part of the spec. Ashura was quite clear. Following spec.