Pure Boo > Evil Boo or vice versa?

[Kaboom]

No, Goku's comments were clearly in reference to Boo's power.

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

That's very clear. The "like this" part at the end means "un-Fused," since that's what Goku leads into and had already been considering for the last few pages. Never were they talking about their size.

The only reason Pure Boo was able to resist the Spirit Bomb was because Goku didn't have the power left to properly deliver the attack. You're not going to be run over and killed by a big truck if it's only moving at 2 miles per hour.

[Fox666]

That's not the only line that suggests Goku was vastly outclassed by Evil Boo.

Goku: “Di-didn’t I tell ya to wear your Potara?! Th-this is why! If we could just go outside and merge, then this kind of guy would be an easy victory!”

And keep in mind that in any of these lines the size of Goku and Vegeta was bring in question. Not just because Goku believes that with the Potara they could defeat Evil Boo, but also because Vegeta removed the original Boo from inside of him so that his strength would have fallen.

Vegeta: “This’ll be fun…Will you turn back into this fatso? Or will you become that scrawny guy? …Either way, it seems that your power will doubtlessly fall below what it is now.”

Additionally, Goku retired from the battle after Gotenks fusion timed out inside of Evil Boo.

Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”

Note: by "on his own" Goku meant not using the Potara with Gohan, not fighting side-by-side with him.

If Gohan was truly stronger, they would have ripped him out of the cocoon and wait for him to wake up.

They can't "wait" while the enemy is trying to kill them.

Kid Boo was overpowering the genki dama that had Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Piccolo, GOHAN, Trunks, Goten as well as all of the namekians, the kai's, just about everyone else's energy. So Kid Boo > Genki Dama (Before Goku's strength was wished back) > Full Powered Ki Blast from Goku. Plus, Goku told Vegeta that he wished he would have fused.

It was explained during the battle with Pure Boo that Vegeta was out of power because he has been revived recently, to the point he attacked Boo without transforming in Super Saiyan.

[FNF]

Not to mention SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) already being stronger/equal to SSjin3 Goku.

Goku can kill Pure Buu at full power with a charged Ki blast, Goku can't do anything against Evil Buu etc.

Where does it mention that SS Gotenks is stronger than SS3 Goku? Goku is referring to his size the whole time.

Kid Boo was overpowering the genki dama that had Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Piccolo, GOHAN, Trunks, Goten as well as all of the namekians, the kai's, just about everyone else's energy. So Kid Boo > Genki Dama (Before Goku's strength was wished back) > Full Powered Ki Blast from Goku. Plus, Goku told Vegeta that he wished he would have fused.

Goku never fought that Majin Boo before. He was merely afraid of remaining tiny. His ki blast in base form couldn't get him free, yet a bullet could penetrate him. Goku was a lot weaker when he became tiny, and so did Vegeta. If Gohan was truly stronger, they would have ripped him out of the cocoon and wait for him to wake up. Becoming Vegetto was their only option, simply because Vegetto is overpowered to the point that he whipped the strongest Boo's ass as a jawbreaker.

Plus, Goku wasn't even going all out on Fat Boo, so Majin Boo never knew what it was like to fight a fully powered SS3 Goku. SS3 Goku told him that a stronger fighter will appear, and Majin Boo in general bought it.

Goku states that Gotenks would be stronger than himself and that's never contradicted and it is even supported by SSjin Gotenks(pre RoSaT) being sensed from the Kaioshin realm.

Gohan and co didn't have all of their energy available to them. After Vegeta is revived, Goku states;

“You’ll sta-stall for time?…Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!”

So basically anyone who has just been brought back to life isn't at full power and so weak that Vegeta didn't even go SSjin. Gohan and co most like had the tiniest fraction of energy available to them to donate to the genki-dama.

Lol, a Buu is a Buu. Piccolo states that Buu had never fought anyone as strong as SSjin3 Gotenks. Evil Buu later states that he is the strongest in the universe having fought SSjin3 Goku even though he knew that Goku was somewhat capable of beating his former(Fat) self.

SSjin3 Gotenks>>>SSjin3 Goku, Gohan>Evil Buu>>>SSjin3 Goku, SSjin3 Goku>Fat Buu

Evil Buu had to point out to Goku that he was a midget. Not to mention they were desperately trying to make Buu weaker than before. The posters above have also posted the quotes which prove it's to do with power.
Also Goku realises that Pure Buu is weaker than Evil Buu;

“We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

So the theory that Buu's power kept rising even after reverting back to Pure Buu is moot.

What makes you think SSjin3 can be suppressed? Goku and Piccolo refer to Goku not firing a full power Ki blast and pulling his punches.

If you are going to reply with a load of cop outs, don't bother.

[Fox666]

You can't "suppressed" while in Super Saiyan 3, however Goku was holding back his strength against the fat Majin Boo.

[Metrite]

it is even supported by SSjin Gotenks(pre RoSaT) being sensed from the Kaioshin realm.

When was ssj Gotenks sensed from the Kaioshin realm? It also seems irrelevant about who can be sensed from where. It's not like Gohan was weaker than ssj Gotenks since Piccolo didn't sense him until he came to Earth.

So basically anyone who has just been brought back to life isn't at full power and so weak that Vegeta didn't even go SSjin. Gohan and co most like had the tiniest fraction of energy available to them to donate to the genki-dama.

Goku made a point that gathering a little energy from everybody wouldn't do any good, so if people were revived with only a little energy then his point would still stand. Vegeta was weak because he had just used all his strength to stall Buu and was merely revived where he stood as he was without a chance to rest.

You can't "suppressed" while in Super Saiyan 3

What says a person can't suppress power in ssj3?

[Kaboom]

Goku made a point that gathering a little energy from everybody wouldn't do any good, so if people were revived with only a little energy then his point would still stand. Vegeta was weak because he had just used all his strength to stall Buu and was merely revived where he stood as he was without a chance to rest.

This seems most likely to me, as well. Vegeta already had a body and had been expending Ki to fight, while getting pretty beaten up as well. Simply switching from "dead" to "alive" wouldn't really change much for him, at least not compared to everyone on Earth who was completely restored physically as well as spiritually.

[Kaboom]

You can't "suppressed" while in Super Saiyan 3

What says a person can't suppress power in ssj3?

I say effort and Ki output are closely linked. You put out more Ki when you actually try to. Goku simply wasn't trying very hard against Fat Boo, hence he simply wasn't using as much Ki, hence there was less Ki put out for others to sense, hence it was uncertain for Piccolo and the others just how much stronger than Fat Boo he really was.

The same could be said of plenty of other situations. Like, off the top of my head... Cell not realizing Gohan right in front of him was his superior until the brutal beat-down started. Or the aforementioned SSj2 burst that Vegeta sensed from Goku. Or Evil Boo not being able to confirm Ultimate Gohan's superiority over him until Gohan powered up and started pummeling his pink gooey ass. Or Gohan-Boo's denial about Super Vegetto's borderline-omnipotent dominance of him (since Vegetto was barely trying).

This is the one downside that natural Ki-sensing has compared to scouters. The full scope of your opponent's power isn't always obvious until they actually start to use it (although particularly skilled people can often tell whether or not someone's hiding a significant amount of power, like Kuririn telling Trunks had more beyond his SSjG2 and Piccolo of course suspecting Goku was holding back against Fat Boo). On a scouter, though, Saiyan-arc Vegeta would always read as 18,000 both before and after he powered up.

"Suppressing" one's Ki is an entirely different feat. That's when you purposely control your output in order to minimize it or mask it altogether, making you even able to fool a scouter. Not the same thing.


Copy-paste FTW

[Fox666]

it is even supported by SSjin Gotenks(pre RoSaT) being sensed from the Kaioshin realm.

When was ssj Gotenks sensed from the Kaioshin realm? It also seems irrelevant about who can be sensed from where. It's not like Gohan was weaker than ssj Gotenks since Piccolo didn't sense him until he came to Earth.

Goku briefly mentioned that, after Trunks and Goten began to train in the Room of Space and Time, that he couldn't sense "the kids fusion" anymore.

But I am not quite sure how much evidence this really is. We were never told that it was impossible to sense the Ki from there, only that Goku transformed in Super Saiyan 3 (and additionally Evil Boo) were the only ones Ki to inadvertently flow from one place to another. However it's still interesting to know that detail.

I am not sure about Gohan however. It's worth to note that Gohan only made a burst of Ki for a brief moment, different from Goku who was constantly overflowing with power. And as a final note, Evil Boo was the only one concentrated at the time as he was waiting for Trunks and Goten training.

This seems most likely to me, as well. Vegeta already had a body and had been expending Ki to fight, while getting pretty beaten up as well. Simply switching from "dead" to "alive" wouldn't really change much for him, at least not compared to everyone on Earth who was completely restored physically as well as spiritually.

Vegeta injuries were healed, so why would he be different from Gohan and the others? Besides, it's not like reconstructing a body that was blown in pieces is better than healing a few wounds.

Or the aforementioned SSj2 burst that Vegeta sensed from Goku. Or Evil Boo not being able to confirm Ultimate Gohan's superiority over him until Gohan powered up and started pummeling his pink gooey ass.

Huh, Gohan ritual was not complete. Perhaps Gohan indeed wasn't better than Evil Boo at that point.

Or Gohan-Boo's denial about Super Vegetto's borderline-omnipotent dominance of him (since Vegetto was barely trying).

Vegetto was a full-power Super Saiyan, so technically he can control his Ki at will like as if he wasn't transformed. So I am not quite sure if he was at his maximum or not.

[FNF]

it is even supported by SSjin Gotenks(pre RoSaT) being sensed from the Kaioshin realm.

When was ssj Gotenks sensed from the Kaioshin realm? It also seems irrelevant about who can be sensed from where. It's not like Gohan was weaker than ssj Gotenks since Piccolo didn't sense him until he came to Earth.

When Goku is confused by Evil Buu's Ki disappearing he states that he couldn't sense the kid's fused Ki so he couldn't have been killed in a battle. That basically means that he could sense SSjin Gotenks before.

I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.

And btw, Gohan and co had to ask Piccolo if Kid Buu's Ki had disappeared suggesting that, strength wise, he was weaker than SSjin3 Goku.

So basically anyone who has just been brought back to life isn't at full power and so weak that Vegeta didn't even go SSjin. Gohan and co most like had the tiniest fraction of energy available to them to donate to the genki-dama.

Goku made a point that gathering a little energy from everybody wouldn't do any good, so if people were revived with only a little energy then his point would still stand. Vegeta was weak because he had just used all his strength to stall Buu and was merely revived where he stood as he was without a chance to rest.

Did you not understand my post? Goku states that since Vegeta had just been revived, his energy wasn't full. NOT because he was just fighting Buu.
That means that no matter how much of Gohan and co's Ki they collected, it would still be a minuscule amount compared to if Gohan and co were all alive for a longer period of time.

You can't "suppressed" while in Super Saiyan 3

What says a person can't suppress power in ssj3?

The fact that Goku had only just achieved SSjin3 and SSjin could only be suppressed after being mastered goes against even the possibility that SSjin3 could be suppressed.

[hleV]

Maybe South/Dai Kaioshin's abilities helped Evil Boo to sense Gohan.

[Metrite]

I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.

And btw, Gohan and co had to ask Piccolo if Kid Buu's Ki had disappeared suggesting that, strength wise, he was weaker than SSjin3 Goku.

So since Piccolo sensed Buu from the Kaioshin realm but didn't sense Gohan from there, it must mean that Buu must be stronger than Gohan? That is the only case where sensing over a distance involved the same person.

Did you not understand my post? Goku states that since Vegeta had just been revived, his energy wasn't full. NOT because he was just fighting Buu.
That means that no matter how much of Gohan and co's Ki they collected, it would still be a minuscule amount compared to if Gohan and co were all alive for a longer period of time.

Which means Goku's reason as to why the Genki Dama wouldn't work would still be valid. Vegeta was just revived, not restored to how he was before being killed, therefore he was just revived while still weak.

The fact that Goku had only just achieved SSjin3 and SSjin could only be suppressed after being mastered goes against even the possibility that SSjin3 could be suppressed.

When was it said that one's power as a ssj could only be suppressed after it being mastered? It just seems odd that lowering/raising one's ki would be impossible just because they are in a different form, whether or not that form is burdensome.

[FNF]

I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.

And btw, Gohan and co had to ask Piccolo if Kid Buu's Ki had disappeared suggesting that, strength wise, he was weaker than SSjin3 Goku.

So since Piccolo sensed Buu from the Kaioshin realm but didn't sense Gohan from there, it must mean that Buu must be stronger than Gohan? That is the only case where sensing over a distance involved the same person.

It seems like you're intentionally ignoring parts of my post;

'I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.'

Did you not understand my post? Goku states that since Vegeta had just been revived, his energy wasn't full. NOT because he was just fighting Buu.
That means that no matter how much of Gohan and co's Ki they collected, it would still be a minuscule amount compared to if Gohan and co were all alive for a longer period of time.

Which means Goku's reason as to why the Genki Dama wouldn't work would still be valid. Vegeta was just revived, not restored to how he was before being killed, therefore he was just revived while still weak.

Wait what? Goku states that the specific reason why Vegeta was weak was because he had been wished back to life. Not because he was weak from fighting Buu or w/e.

The fact that Goku had only just achieved SSjin3 and SSjin could only be suppressed after being mastered goes against even the possibility that SSjin3 could be suppressed.

When was it said that one's power as a ssj could only be suppressed after it being mastered? It just seems odd that lowering/raising one's ki would be impossible just because they are in a different form, whether or not that form is burdensome.

Vegeta (to self): “…What’s with them?!...Is that Super Saiyan…!? No…It has a slightly different atmosphere…They’re being so natural in that state…”

Note: they are suppressed and Vegeta is shocked by this.

Trunks: “S-so then…When they fight, they’re [perform] an ev-even more tremendous transformation…!”
Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

Note: Vegeta is basically saying that they can now raise their power as SSjin's without transforming.

The idea that they can suppress as an SSjin3 of all things without being mastered is just ridiculous and not supported in anyway.

[Fox666]

The idea that they can suppress as an SSjin3 of all things without being mastered is just ridiculous and not supported in anyway.

Well, I guess you didn't get what Kaboom said. He didn't meant that a Super Saiyan 3 can lower his power, but rather that Ki itself work in a way that you can control it.

Since you are comparing it to the regular Super Saiyan form, look at the time Goku spared with Trunks after returning from Yadorat:

Yamcha: “Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…”

This is one example of how your Ki may change, even if technically you are not getting stronger. Think of when some characters says that a Ki is "evil", "threatening" or anything of that kind.

[Metrite]

It seems like you're intentionally ignoring parts of my post;

'I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.'

Saying one thing has to be right because of "in-universe events" and then calling "PIS" for another event is inconsistent. I'd prefer to stick with the in-universe answers. And the fact is that Piccolo sensed Buu but not Gohan which is the only case that involved the same person from the same place.

Wait what? Goku states that the specific reason why Vegeta was weak was because he had been wished back to life. Not because he was weak from fighting Buu or w/e.

Goku didn't say Vegeta was weak because he was revived. He said he had just been revived and then that he must still be weak. Vegeta was still weak from the fight before, Vegeta was just revived where he stood, and therefore he didn't have time to recover. If Vegeta had not fought Buu and was then revived where he stood, then he would've still had just as much strength as he normally would just like other people that were switched from dead to alive right where they stood in the past were. And Goku's point that the Genki Dama wouldn't work would still stand if everybody had been revived with little energy.

Vegeta (to self): “…What’s with them?!...Is that Super Saiyan…!? No…It has a slightly different atmosphere…They’re being so natural in that state…”

Note: they are suppressed and Vegeta is shocked by this.

Trunks: “S-so then…When they fight, they’re [perform] an ev-even more tremendous transformation…!”
Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

Note: Vegeta is basically saying that they can now raise their power as SSjin's without transforming.

It sounded more like he was bringing up the fact that they could now raise their power in the form without it being as burdensome, not that is was impossible to raise and lower it before, just that it would take a much bigger toll.

[Fox666]

Wait what? Goku states that the specific reason why Vegeta was weak was because he had been wished back to life. Not because he was weak from fighting Buu or w/e.

Goku didn't say Vegeta was weak because he was revived. He said he had just been revived and then that he must still be weak. Vegeta was still weak from the fight before, Vegeta was just revived where he stood, and therefore he didn't have time to recover. If Vegeta had not fought Buu and was then revived where he stood, then he would've still had just as much strength as he normally would just like other people that were switched from dead to alive right where they stood in the past were. And Goku's point that the Genki Dama wouldn't work would still stand if everybody had been revived with little energy.

Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!

Saying one thing has to be right because of "in-universe events" and then calling "PIS" for another event is inconsistent. I'd prefer to stick with the in-universe answers. And the fact is that Piccolo sensed Buu but not Gohan which is the only case that involved the same person from the same place.

Like I said before, Gohan wasn't fighting or anything, he just released a shockwave of Ki. Even if Piccolo is involved in both situations, it's still a different case.

[Metrite]

Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!

And it is exactly what Goku said. He was just revived, not restored to full strength. Merely switching from dead to alive didn't make it as though he never fought to begin with. Therefore he was still weak because he hadn't had time to recover.

Like I said before, Gohan wasn't fighting or anything, he just released a shockwave of Ki. Even if Piccolo is involved in both situations, it's still a different case.

He still raised his ki all the way up and so should have been easier to sense than ssj Gotenks.

[FNF]

It seems like you're intentionally ignoring parts of my post;

'I guess you haven't heard of 'PIS' before? lol
AT wanted everyone to be unaware of Gohan being alive so he made sure that the only person to sense him was Evil Buu.'

Saying one thing has to be right because of "in-universe events" and then calling "PIS" for another event is inconsistent. I'd prefer to stick with the in-universe answers. And the fact is that Piccolo sensed Buu but not Gohan which is the only case that involved the same person from the same place.

Nice twisting everything. Gohan could sense SSjin3 Goku vs Fat Buu and he was on SSjin Gotenks' level and was weaker than Evil Buu yet he couldn't sense Pure Buu.

PIS is the only explanation unless your a Pure Buu fanboy.

Wait what? Goku states that the specific reason why Vegeta was weak was because he had been wished back to life. Not because he was weak from fighting Buu or w/e.

Goku didn't say Vegeta was weak because he was revived. He said he had just been revived and then that he must still be weak. Vegeta was still weak from the fight before, Vegeta was just revived where he stood, and therefore he didn't have time to recover. If Vegeta had not fought Buu and was then revived where he stood, then he would've still had just as much strength as he normally would just like other people that were switched from dead to alive right where they stood in the past were. And Goku's point that the Genki Dama wouldn't work would still stand if everybody had been revived with little energy.

Once again you really don't get it. He was restored back to life JUST LIKE GOHAN AND CO. That's the reason why he was so weak.

Vegeta (to self): “…What’s with them?!...Is that Super Saiyan…!? No…It has a slightly different atmosphere…They’re being so natural in that state…”

Note: they are suppressed and Vegeta is shocked by this.

Trunks: “S-so then…When they fight, they’re [perform] an ev-even more tremendous transformation…!”
Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

Note: Vegeta is basically saying that they can now raise their power as SSjin's without transforming.

It sounded more like he was bringing up the fact that they could now raise their power in the form without it being as burdensome, not that is was impossible to raise and lower it before, just that it would take a much bigger toll.

The transformation is what made it burdensome derp. SSjin couldn't be suppressed before being mastered fact.

[Fox666]

Like I said before, Gohan wasn't fighting or anything, he just released a shockwave of Ki. Even if Piccolo is involved in both situations, it's still a different case.

He still raised his ki all the way up and so should have been easier to sense than ssj Gotenks.

Should it? Gohan was just a glimpse of power for a very brief moment, while Gotenks was playing around.

[Metrite]

Nice twisting everything. Gohan could sense SSjin3 Goku vs Fat Buu and he was on SSjin Gotenks' level and was weaker than Evil Buu yet he couldn't sense Pure Buu.

PIS is the only explanation unless your a Pure Buu fanboy.

So if the case of "Being able to be sensed by anybody depends solely on distance and strength" were true then it would make Gohan weaker than Buu since Piccolo sensed one but not the other. And it would make Buu weaker than Goku assuming Gohan sensed one and not the other (If it is to be assumed that Gohan asking for Piccolo's take meant that he couldn't sense Buu from the start. It could be that he couldn't sense Buu any longer because Buu was dead and therefore just wanted Piccolo to confirm it).

Once again you really don't get it. He was restored back to life JUST LIKE GOHAN AND CO. That's the reason why he was so weak.

Vegeta was weak because he had a body to weaken just before switching to alive mode while everybody else was restored back to how they were just before dying. If Vegeta had not fought Buu and was then revived where he stood, then he would've still had just as much strength as he normally would just like other people that were switched from dead to alive right where they stood in the past were. Everybody that didn't have a body to be revived on the spot had to be revived at their normal strength or else Goku's argument that the Genki Dama wouldn't work would have remained.

The transformation is what made it burdensome derp. SSjin couldn't be suppressed before being mastered fact.

So getting used to the transformation is what made raising/lowering ki while in in the form it tax free, not possible.

[FNF]

I'm done replying to you dude. Everything you say is factually wrong.