To restore to life all those who died since...

[Senzu_Bean]

...the day that Freeza came to Namek, except the bad people.

In relation to this thread I thought how different Dragon Ball story would have been if instead of the wish "To restore to life all those killed by Freeza and his men" the above wish would have been asked? Logical the major, major difference would have been that Vegeta would remain dead for the entire remaining of the story. Whether or nor that would have been an improvement doesn't really matter.

What I would like to discuss is how would the characters evolve in the remaining story without Vegeta in the picture but still in relation with the major arcs stories - Freeza would still want to take revenge of Goku, as well as Dr. Gero, Cell would still want to absorb Number 17 & 18, Babidi would still want to revive Majin Buu years later, etc.

Basically who would come from the future, beat Freeza and his father, and warn Goku and co. about the Artificial Humans? Would have been Yamcha and Bulma's son? An older Gohan? Who would have been Goku's major rival from then on? Piccolo? Tenshinhan? Number 16 or 17? How would the Super Saiyan transformation evolve if there wasn't any other Saiyan besides Goku and Gohan? Would it have been an unique power-up to Goku much like Kaio-ken was? Etc.

Let hear those ideas, please.

[Saiga]

Nobody comes from the future, everybody dies.

[Gonstead]

It's basically the Mirai Timeline, just without Vegeta.

No Vegeta = No Trunks

No Trunks = Cell conquers that timeline, however he would be significantly weaker without Vegeta's cells.

[Senzu_Bean]

Those aren't exactly the answers I was expecting. Just imagine Mr. Toriyama didn't brought back Vegeta's character from the dead. Logically he wouldn't kill the main characters and end the story right there. He would create the story in a way that it progresses but without Vegeta. That is what I'm asking for - without the character Vegeta how would the story progress in the same story arcs.

Somebody else than Trunks would come from the future; somebody else than Vegeta would fuse with Goku; somebody else than Vegeta would be Goku's rival, etc., etc.

[Saiga]

Those aren't exactly the answers I was expecting. Just imagine Mr. Toriyama didn't brought back Vegeta's character from the dead. Logically he wouldn't kill the main characters and end the story right there. He would create the story in a way that it progresses but without Vegeta. That is what I'm asking for - without the character Vegeta how would the story progress in the same story arcs.

Somebody else than Trunks would come from the future; somebody else than Vegeta would fuse with Goku; somebody else than Vegeta would be Goku's rival, etc., etc.

Well then in that case, the story would probably proceed without any time travel, without someone fusing with Goku and without someone being his rival.

[Bussani]

Why would there be no time travel? Trunks didn't invent the time machine.

[Senzu_Bean]

Why would there be no time travel? Trunks didn't invent the time machine.

You're getting at what I suggested with this thread, aren't you? I think I make myself clear with both posts above but I don't know. Basically the situations would all be the same, only Vegeta character wouldn't exist.

[TobyS]

I think a Yamcha/Bulma Trunks coulda come back in time.

He coulda survived using Kaioken learned from Yamcha and Bulmas size/image distorting devices, never fighting the androids directly if at all possible. Gadgets and stealth.

Piccolo and the others coulda handled 19&20 collectivly imo.

Piccolo took 20 with ease and could handle the suped up 19 with a bit more effort.

Gero owned Yamcha easily because he drained him first, he was taken by suprise.

I think Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Kuririn, Gohan and Chaozu could have held him till Piccolo and the new Trunks rejoined them.

When the androids beat up Vegeta Trunks wouldn't really care. I'm not sure how it would go from there though, when the others were left alone by the androids they would probably just keep moving Goku around.

I'm not sure if Piccolo would deem it neccesary to become Kamicolo, unless kami-sama could convince him based on cell alone.

Cell would be in less of a hurry, having not seen a stronger vegeta and piccolo. But w/o their hunting him he might be able to eat faster.

Piccolo would get beaten up by 17 if not fused. Possibly killed. But either way he would buy time for the others to move Goku again.

If Kamiccolo happened it would play out that Tenshinhan would die if Cell caught up with the androids. Not sure if Piccolo was gonna die or not in the manga.

Goku and Gohan would crush 2nd cell with total ease even before he blew up islands thanks to teleportation. He would try and tempt Goku with a fight, but he wouldn't let him eat 18, especially with Kuririns urging. Tenshinhan would be revived either with the dragonballs or Namekian ones depending.

I always wondered what would have happened if they "re-programmed" the Cell growing in the tank.

Trunks would go home with the remote/blueprints. But eventually get killed by Cell, or just have the machine stolen from him.

(Would this create a time loop?)

[Gonstead]

(Would this create a time loop?)

More likely situation would be more Alternate Timelines.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think what would happen is that, as Toriyama would have to bump Yamcha aside so Vegeta and Bulma could get it on to have another super-strong Saiyan child, Bulma would stay with Yamcha and not have a child. Goku would die from the heart disease, the Androids would be released and kill everyone but Gohan, as per usual. Without Trunks for Gohan to fallback on, Gohan wouldn't risk his life that time to fight the Androids and die, and therefore continue to train while Bulma built the time machine.

Once Bulma had completed the time machine, Gohan would put on a disguise and take the sword Piccolo gave him as a child that Bulma had later adapted to be more efficient for him. He'd return to the past, kill Freeza and King Cold, give Goku the medicine, tell them about the Androids, but not inform him that he's his son, as it could affect the future (e.g. Goku not letting Gohan participate in the battle or something like that).

After that, I guess that Goku wouldn't be crippled by the heart disease until he fought #19. Presumably Piccolo would have to save him. I don't know how events would develop after that. Future Gohan would return from the future. Piccolo would probably still merge with God to defeat either the Androids, Cell or both. Everyone would find out that the mysterious time traveller is actually Gohan. Goku will still have to be moved around so the Androids wouldn't find him. Goku would heal from the disease and take present Gohan, Future Gohan and Piccolo into the RoSaT (Goku and present Gohan together, with Future Gohan and Piccolo before or after). Perhaps Cell would be killed earlier, by SSj2 present Gohan. Future Gohan would return to the future and kill the Androids and Cell with his new-found power, returning peace to his time.

Perhaps, by the end of the series, it would show that Yamcha and Bulma eventually got married and started a family.

[Attitudefan]

The future Gohan works really well in this scenario. It would be neat to have him die by Cell and Goku too, for present Gohan to get upset. I think it would set the tone nicely. Anyways, if not for that to happen, I think it would be neat to have Tenshinhan or Yamcha to come back from the future to warn Goku and co of the coming Androids. I think it would be a throwback to not have Vegeta around and going back to the main cast with everyone trying to help out other than just a Saiyan character takeover. Goku has the heart disease and the humans realize that they need to save the planet and not necessarily rely on Goku all the time... but that's just how I would approach the story.

[Kiddo626]

I think what would happen is that, as Toriyama would have to bump Yamcha aside so Vegeta and Bulma could get it on to have another super-strong Saiyan child, Bulma would stay with Yamcha and not have a child. Goku would die from the heart disease, the Androids would be released and kill everyone but Gohan, as per usual. Without Trunks for Gohan to fallback on, Gohan wouldn't risk his life that time to fight the Androids and die, and therefore continue to train while Bulma built the time machine.

Once Bulma had completed the time machine, Gohan would put on a disguise and take the sword Piccolo gave him as a child that Bulma had later adapted to be more efficient for him. He'd return to the past, kill Freeza and King Cold, give Goku the medicine, tell them about the Androids, but not inform him that he's his son, as it could affect the future (e.g. Goku not letting Gohan participate in the battle or something like that).

After that, I guess that Goku wouldn't be crippled by the heart disease until he fought #19. Presumably Piccolo would have to save him. I don't know how events would develop after that. Future Gohan would return from the future. Piccolo would probably still merge with God to defeat either the Androids, Cell or both. Goku will still have to be moved around so the Androids wouldn't find him. Goku would heal from the disease and take present Gohan, Future Gohan and Piccolo into the RoSaT (Goku and present Gohan together, with Future Gohan and Piccolo before or after). Perhaps Cell would be killed earlier, by SSj2 present Gohan. Future Gohan would return to the future and kill the Androids and Cell with his new-found power, returning peace to his time.

Perhaps, by the end of the series, it would show that Yamcha and Bulma eventually got married and started a family.

And for added Crowning Moment of Heartwarming, Goku would find out that this warrior from the future is his son, just before he goes back to his time. That would've been nice.

Geez, I think I would've actually preferred this instead of what really happened. Given that the Cell saga is probably my least favorite one out of all of them, that could explain why.

Still, would there be a need for Goku to sacrifice his life in the end, even with this alternate scenario? I mean, since both present Gohan and future Gohan have the same personality, I would assume that they could both use the same trigger to turn into SSJ2. With two SSJ2s, that would automatically tip things in the good guys' favor, no?

[Senzu_Bean]

I too think Gohan would be the ideal candidate to be the future character. Would he still get a mentor in his timeline much like Trunks had Gohan?

Maybe the future Gohan could have died against Cell instead of Number 16 and that would be the reason to Gohan snap out. I believe without Vegeta and Trunks the character Goten wouldn't probably exist. Maybe have Number 16 and 17 be part of the gang with some upgrades by Dr. Brief and Bulma?

What about a replace to Gotenks character? Goku would probably fuse with Gohan and thus replace Vegetto but Gotenks? I find the idea of Kuririn and Yamcha fuse together to be quite humorous. These two would probably be the only comical characters in the gang. Maybe have them train in the RoSaT previously to the Cell Games if they're too weak? Or have both Number 17 & 18 fuse together to something akin to Super #17 in GT?

[Master Blaster]

I think what would happen is that, as Toriyama would have to bump Yamcha aside so Vegeta and Bulma could get it on to have another super-strong Saiyan child, Bulma would stay with Yamcha and not have a child. Goku would die from the heart disease, the Androids would be released and kill everyone but Gohan, as per usual. Without Trunks for Gohan to fallback on, Gohan wouldn't risk his life that time to fight the Androids and die, and therefore continue to train while Bulma built the time machine.

Once Bulma had completed the time machine, Gohan would put on a disguise and take the sword Piccolo gave him as a child that Bulma had later adapted to be more efficient for him. He'd return to the past, kill Freeza and King Cold, give Goku the medicine, tell them about the Androids, but not inform him that he's his son, as it could affect the future (e.g. Goku not letting Gohan participate in the battle or something like that).

After that, I guess that Goku wouldn't be crippled by the heart disease until he fought #19. Presumably Piccolo would have to save him. I don't know how events would develop after that. Future Gohan would return from the future. Piccolo would probably still merge with God to defeat either the Androids, Cell or both. Goku will still have to be moved around so the Androids wouldn't find him. Goku would heal from the disease and take present Gohan, Future Gohan and Piccolo into the RoSaT (Goku and present Gohan together, with Future Gohan and Piccolo before or after). Perhaps Cell would be killed earlier, by SSj2 present Gohan. Future Gohan would return to the future and kill the Androids and Cell with his new-found power, returning peace to his time.

Perhaps, by the end of the series, it would show that Yamcha and Bulma eventually got married and started a family.

Nice. Might have worked as good as, or maybe even better than the original story.

[Perfect]

What would have happened is really simple, a subjective fan-fiction story that'd never have a definite answer because the story would likely be completely different with new enemies, etc. Factor in the influence of his editors, how he'd want to create new characters and pretty much how changing something like that in the real world would affect the future of the real world. Dragon Ball as we know it would be completely different.

[Saiga]

I'm saying there'd probably be no time travel because Gohan coming back would be too obvious - and it would be weird to have two Gohan's around at once (why wouldn't Future Gohan become as strong as Present Gohan? Which would wreck the plot) and there's no new Super Saiyan to shake things up. I don't see Yamcha and Bulma having a son (they had problems way back in Dragon Ball) and even if they did, he'd be useless.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The future Gohan works really well in this scenario. It would be neat to have him die by Cell and Goku too, for present Gohan to get upset. I think it would set the tone nicely. Anyways, if not for that to happen, I think it would be neat to have Tenshinhan or Yamcha to come back from the future to warn Goku and co of the coming Androids.

How would Tenshinhan or Yamcha ever survive against the Androids long enough? They've already been shoved aside for a while now, with their practically complete absence in the Freeza arc and the Saiyans and Piccolo getting their own power-ups.

Still, would there be a need for Goku to sacrifice his life in the end, even with this alternate scenario? I mean, since both present Gohan and future Gohan have the same personality, I would assume that they could both use the same trigger to turn into SSJ2. With two SSJ2s, that would automatically tip things in the good guys' favor, no?

Would both incarnations of Gohan have the same personality? I'm not sure about that. In the Boo arc, it was shown that Gohan could no longer get rage boosts (unless you count when the old Kaioshin was doing his ritual on him and he exploded with power when it was taking too long, although you could argue that that was because his dormant power was being released, but that's for another matter).

Was this because he hadn't been training, and therefore lost access to that part of his power? But even when he was a five-year-old who'd had no training before, he still got a rage boost. So could it be the fact that, now he's an adult, he's more emotionally stable? Perhaps. Not to mention the fact that he's been living in this destroyed, apocalyptic world for 17 years or so.

I'm saying there'd probably be no time travel because Gohan coming back would be too obvious - and it would be weird to have two Gohan's around at once (why wouldn't Future Gohan become as strong as Present Gohan? Which would wreck the plot) and there's no new Super Saiyan to shake things up.

How would it be obvious? And what about my suggestion - that he'd wear a disguise and it would be only be revealed until later? And remember, in the original manga, when Goku said that he wanted Gohan to become stronger than him in the RoSaT, Gohan replied that in the future, he was a Super Saiyan but was still killed by the Androids. To which Goku responded that the future is different, and in that future, he didn't train in the RoSaT.

Different circumstances mean different power growth. Logic dictates that if Gohan doesn't have any sparring partners in the future, he'll be weaker than a present Gohan who has two sparring partners. Logic also dictates that if Gohan doesn't train in the RoSaT, he'll be weaker than a present Gohan who does.

I too think Gohan would be the ideal candidate to be the future character. Would he still get a mentor in his timeline much like Trunks had Gohan?

If not Piccolo, then who else? A potential son of Yamcha and Bulma would be too weak to do anything.

[Attitudefan]

How would Tenshinhan or Yamcha ever survive against the Androids long enough? They've already been shoved aside for a while now, with their practically complete absence in the Freeza arc and the Saiyans and Piccolo getting their own power-ups.

Something could be created for them to bring them back into the fold. They weren't really tossed aside until after Freeza showed up on Earth. I can see Ten surviving and finding some kind of special training like Son had in space or something crazy like that.

[Saiga]

I'm saying there'd probably be no time travel because Gohan coming back would be too obvious - and it would be weird to have two Gohan's around at once (why wouldn't Future Gohan become as strong as Present Gohan? Which would wreck the plot) and there's no new Super Saiyan to shake things up.

How would it be obvious? And what about my suggestion - that he'd wear a disguise and it would be only be revealed until later? And remember, in the original manga, when Goku said that he wanted Gohan to become stronger than him in the RoSaT, Gohan replied that in the future, he was a Super Saiyan but was still killed by the Androids. To which Goku responded that the future is different, and in that future, he didn't train in the RoSaT.

Different circumstances mean different power growth. Logic dictates that if Gohan doesn't have any sparring partners in the future, he'll be weaker than a present Gohan who has two sparring partners. Logic also dictates that if Gohan doesn't train in the RoSaT, he'll be weaker than a present Gohan who does.

When I said it would be obvious, I was thinking of him doing the exact same thing Trunks did - showing up, revealing he was a Super Saiyan, kill Freeza/Cold, and tell Goku he was from the future. If he did that, Goku and Piccolo would figure it out. The fact that adult Gohan doesn't get rage boosts for some reason coupled with the other things you said means that present Gohan actually would become much stronger, good thinking. I guess it could work pretty well depending on how it was handled. F-Gohan having only one arm would be a good reason to train P-Gohan instead of him, as well.

If not Piccolo, then who else? A potential son of Yamcha and Bulma would be too weak to do anything.

So, so true.

[SylentEcho]

There's two answers to this question.

1 is from a author's point of view which has been answered by Perfect.

2 is from the in-universe point of view. I feel the only person who'd come back in time would be Gohan and I don't think he's deceptive enough or would even want to wear a disguise or mask. He'd come, kill Freeza, give Goku the tonic and warn them about the artificial humans.

No one would stop Semi-perfect Cell from absorbing 17 and 18. Piccolo and Future Gohan would go into the ROSAT, Goku and present Gohan would go in together. They'd come out, Goku would give up, then die after which little Gohan would go nuts and kill Cell after which Future Gohan goes back in time and kills Imperfect Cell easily, bones future Bulma after which we'd get Grunks. Okay everything minus that last part.