World's Strongest Review-Ocean Group Dub

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

Photoshop.

I mean the text from Arctic flightless bird's voice chart

[AgitoZ]

I mean the text from Arctic flightless bird's voice chart

Photoshop or any other image editing program. Just cover up what you want to replace and put in the new text. It isn't that hard.

[Gonstead]

Heck, Microsoft Paint is as basic as you can get and it will get the job done fine.

[NeoKING]

I always hear people say, "Well, if the dub is too accurate, it will sound wrong." Really? Name a few dubs that are TOO accurate. I think that's a load of apologetic shit for people who want to enjoy crappy dubs.

- Beyblade: Metal Fusion (which is a stark contrast to the original Beyblade which was dubbed by the same company in that the dub for that wasn't accurate at all);

- JoJo's Bizarre Adventure;

-Saint Seiya (ADV dub) started out 'too accurate' but eventually went up to say, DBZKai levels of accuracy and localization;

- ... Bible Black, :X

And since you didn't limit the request to "just anime," lemme just throw in a video game dub too: Zone of the Enders 1 and 2.

I don't think a dub should ever be too accurate. The Japanese language places itself in some very awkward positions when translated to English at times.

[penguintruth]

I just use Paint. Here's a blank template.

NeoKING, those are just examples of poorly acted dubs. A good dub can make the most of the original dialogue without seeming stilted.

[Akumaito Beam]

Well, today I learned I get mildly offended when someone puts down the dub of Bible Black...introspection is scary sometimes.

[Ashura]

I can forgive a few flourishes here and there when a studio makes a dub, but I don't think dub studios should have too much "creative" input. I'm not interested in how Funimation or Bang Zoom think the lines should go. Who are they to have input? They didn't write the show(s). It's not their job to recreate the script. It's their job to fit the lines in English as well as they can to the mouth flaps.

Well, actually, figuring out the best way to present those lines in a manner that makes sense in English IS their job. Mind you, that's completely different than rewriting the script to be something different, but if you think it's as easy as fitting the words to lipflaps when writing an ADR script you're crazy. You have to be creative, otherwise it's going to sound terrible.

I have nothing for mad respect for people who somehow manage to write and act in these things in a manner that doesn't sounds like the lines are shoehorned in later... which they always are. I also have nothing but mad respect for those crazy awesome translators who are able to do the same.

To be honest, when people say 'accurate,' they most likely mean 'literal'... which isn't the same thing at all. Translation in general is full of 'here's the literal translation, this doesn't make sense in english, how do I make this make sense in english while still imbuing the same meaning as the Japanese?'

Also, on the side of 'dubs which are not accurate but probably better than the original,' I would have to say Samurai Pizza Cats is probably up there. I don't think many people have ever complained that the artistic merit of Kyatto Ninden Teyandee was lost when they completely threw out the scripts for that show. I also have to respect Funi's approach on Shinchan and Sgt. Frog, because extremely accurate dubs for those would've been financial suicide.

EDIT: Hey, look at that! Poignant 400th post!

[AgitoZ]

To be honest, when people say 'accurate,' they most likely mean 'literal'... which isn't the same thing at all. Translation in general is full of 'here's the literal translation, this doesn't make sense in english, how do I make this make sense in english while still imbuing the same meaning as the Japanese?'

Accurate would be a Cowboy Bebop and not a Ghost Stories. It seems you're assumption is an assumption of what people want. NO ONE wants an extremely literal dub. If they did they probably would've mentioned so (Odd, I know).

Also, on the side of 'dubs which are not accurate but probably better than the original,' I would have to say Samurai Pizza Cats is probably up there. I don't think many people have ever complained that the artistic merit of Kyatto Ninden Teyandee was lost when they completely threw out the scripts for that show.

Okay...but does that make it a good dub? It's a different show now, it's not the same experience. If a show is crap I expect the dub to be crap and so on.

[Ashura]

Accurate would be a Cowboy Bebop and not a Ghost Stories. It seems you're assumption is an assumption of what people want. NO ONE wants an extremely literal dub. If they did they probably would've mentioned so (Odd, I know).

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get across to Penguintruth: When people say 'I don't like dubs when they're too accurate,' they actually mean 'I don't like dubs that are too literal.'

Okay...but does that make it a good dub? It's a different show now, it's not the same experience. If a show is crap I expect the dub to be crap and so on.

I would say it's a good dub, even though it's not an accurate one, yes. Both things aren't mutually exclusive, which is the point I'm trying to make.

I would also say that the dub for 'Transformers: Robots in Disguise' could not have been more appropriate, and that a super accurate dub of 'Transformers: Car Robots' would not have serviced the material. I think that there's a lot of heart in the earliest Digimon dubs, too, yet they're not extremely accurate or uncut.

[NeoKING]

I just use Paint. Here's a blank template.

NeoKING, those are just examples of poorly acted dubs. A good dub can make the most of the original dialogue without seeming stilted.

... No, I specifically picked these dubs because they were too accurate (literal) to the original script and always stood out to me as such. The acting hadn't even crossed my mind.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Dubs should never be rewritten. They can, however, be rephrased--and often should be in order to make the lip flaps more natural, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's an example of what I mean; if the original line is "we have to leave now," and is changed to "we gotta get outta here" in the dub...then technically, yes, that is a changed line, but I don't consider it to be changed because the phrasing is so similar that the change is of no consequence. The line, as far as I"m concerned, was rephrased, not rewritten. It's a natural consequence of the differences between the Japanese and English languages...very often, two lines, said in the same language, take longer or shorter in one language than they do the other. Sometimes that isn't the case, and a literal translation of the original Japanese line has the exact same amount of syllables and lip flaps as the English version of that line. In those cases, a literal translation can and should be used. Otherwise, I'm all for rephrasing lines.

While I don't like to make blanket statements, I have noticed that as a general rule, people who watch dubs watch them because they want to experience a show rather than read it. Which usually prompts the counter-argument from subbies, "What, you dubbies don't like to read?" To that, I always ask them to bear this in mind: the Japanese don't read their anime shows. It's something that we realize overtly, but sometimes forget subconsciously if we're used to watching anime subtitled. Some subbies say that it feels weird for them to watch anime if it's not in Japanese. However, when an anime airs on TV in Japan, there aren't subtitles...the viewers simply experience the show. The idea behind a dub is to replicate the feeling of experiencing a show rather than reading it.

So, if you want a super-loyal translation that has no differences from the original version, then subtitles are for you. If you value the experience of a show, though, then dubs are generally the way to go.

[AgitoZ]

While I don't like to make blanket statements, I have noticed that as a general rule, people who watch dubs watch them because they want to experience a show rather than read it. Which usually prompts the counter-argument from subbies, "What, you dubbies don't like to read?" To that, I always ask them to bear this in mind: the Japanese don't read their anime shows. It's something that we realize overtly, but sometimes forget subconsciously if we're used to watching anime subtitled. Some subbies say that it feels weird for them to watch anime if it's not in Japanese. However, when an anime airs on TV in Japan, there aren't subtitles...the viewers simply experience the show. The idea behind a dub is to replicate the feeling of experiencing a show rather than reading it.

So, if you want a super-loyal translation that has no differences from the original version, then subtitles are for you. If you value the experience of a show, though, then dubs are generally the way to go.

Couldn't you also argue that in Japan they didn't watch the shows in English/whatever applicable language?

... No, I specifically picked these dubs because they were too accurate (literal) to the original script and always stood out to me as such. The acting hadn't even crossed my mind.

Were you reading the dub then? If the script is bad the acting's gonna go down in quality because of it.

I would say it's a good dub, even though it's not an accurate one, yes. Both things aren't mutually exclusive, which is the point I'm trying to make.

I would also say that the dub for 'Transformers: Robots in Disguise' could not have been more appropriate, and that a super accurate dub of 'Transformers: Car Robots' would not have serviced the material.

Covered by everything else BlackPaladin said.

[VegettoEX]

If your eyes and mind don't process the words on the screen in a fraction of a second which then gives you the entire rest of the delivered line to experience the delivery and tone, you're not literate enough in the language the show is subtitled in.

[TheBlackPaladin]

If your eyes and mind don't process the words on the screen in a fraction of a second which then gives you the entire rest of the delivered line to experience the delivery and tone, you're not literate enough in the language the show is subtitled in.

Certainly, but it's not a matter of literacy. Not really, anyway. It's a matter of barriers put in your way of experiencing the show. For example, if you turn on a show, but look away from the TV screen, there's a visual barrier in that you're not seeing the visuals that go along with the story. If you look at the TV screen but hit the mute button, there's an audio barrier in that you're not hearing the audio that goes along with the story. Subtitles are, in a way, both a visual and an audio barrier--you're forced to turn your eyes away from the center of the screen, so your focus is not directed at the visuals. Furthermore, your brain needs to translate the English words on screen into English words in your head.

Many people are not bothered by this barrier, and that's perfectly understandable. It is, however, a barrier. People who want to experience a show value that fraction of a second. Besides, it's a fraction of a second for each line spoken, so that adds up after a while. I'm not arguing that dubs are better or worse than the subtitled versions (that varies from show to show, as far as I'm concerned). I'm simply explaining why dubbies like dubs.

[Ashura]

If your eyes and mind don't process the words on the screen in a fraction of a second which then gives you the entire rest of the delivered line to experience the delivery and tone, you're not literate enough in the language the show is subtitled in.

While it's true most people can process the words quickly, you're still looking away, averting your eyes to a place you weren't necessarily intended to look. That affects the viewing experience... even if it's subconsciously. Even if it's just a millisecond worth, your attention is still going elsewhere. There are a lot of sub-only shows that I will watch without subtitles a second time just so I can enjoy the animation without distraction and obtrusion, because subtitles can otherwise break the flow.

One thing I don't like about subtitles in nature -- which you sort of illuminate here -- is that they destroy the timing of line delivery and suspense. In that, you DO process what they're saying before the line is actually said a lot of the time, which I think sometimes detracts from the experience.

Whereas with dubs, of course, you have the whole deal where you're shoehorning another language into lipflaps which may not be long or short enough.

Is either method better, sub or dub? I don't think so, and I don't have a favorite. Subtitles and dubs are both an imperfect solution, and if you wanted to completely enjoy the show in its original form you'd really need to become fluent (and even then, your perspective growing up and even your age can make shows mean different things, so there is no perfect solution.)

In the end, they both have their pluses and minuses, and are both ways of enjoying a show. This comes from someone who has routinely watched complete series in both languages... and even has some American shows in other languages just to check out how they localized stuff to boot.

EDIT: Pretty much agree completely with Black Paladin.

[NeoKING]

If your eyes and mind don't process the words on the screen in a fraction of a second which then gives you the entire rest of the delivered line to experience the delivery and tone, you're not literate enough in the language the show is subtitled in.

And yet, subs are still a flawed method of watching media at times.

[Ashura]

I would say it's a good dub, even though it's not an accurate one, yes. Both things aren't mutually exclusive, which is the point I'm trying to make.

I would also say that the dub for 'Transformers: Robots in Disguise' could not have been more appropriate, and that a super accurate dub of 'Transformers: Car Robots' would not have serviced the material.

Covered by everything else BlackPaladin said.

Those examples of dubs I gave were almost completely rewritten. The same things still happen, some of the same basic things are still said and the motivations are there, but it's not just localization as Black Paladin mentioned. Robots in Disguise vs. Car Robots is quite different from its original, and I don't even need to mention that for Samurai Pizza Cats they literally made everything up from watching the footage.

Without any translation to work from, to boot.

Here, you can read just how changed Robots in Disguise is vs. Car Robots: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Battle_Protocol%21

[NitroEX]

I'll never agree with people who stress the need to watch anime with subtitles only. When I watch an anime I like to fully appreciate the animation and you just can't do that when you're too busy focused on reading what the characters are saying.

[Gaffer Tape]

I can't say I have ever found myself too focused on the subtitles. Then again, I watch American television with closed captions a lot of the time, so there's really no difference for me. Besides, if it's choosing between having a few words on the screen, and having every single vocal performance replaced, the former seems like a much less intrusive trade-off for a much more accurate viewing experience. Just my two cents.

[penguintruth]

I'll never agree with people who stress the need to watch anime with subtitles only. When I watch an anime I like to fully appreciate the animation and you just can't do that when you're too busy focused on reading what the characters are saying.

I disagree. Your eyes eventually train themselves to take in all of it.