World's Strongest Review-Ocean Group Dub

[Gaffer Tape]

But he never said that. He said a voice should match the personality, ie. the character.

[Ashura]

Personality over matching the Japanese any day. If you just happen to do both, well, that's cool too. However, I don't think you could realistically make Nozawa work in English... as much as I love her voice for the Son-tribe.

A lot of voices which work in Japanese would sound absolutely ridiculous in English, and when a dub tries to emulate the Japanese performance too closely it's almost always terrible.

[OutlawTorn]

This also isn't a review. You're just saying what happens in the movie.

How is it any different from the manga reviews on the podcast, which went through what happened in each chapter and then gave thoughts afterwards?

This is what I think of your review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdDMrncAy4U

Rather than being insulting, why not put up your own review if you can do so much better?

If your eyes and mind don't process the words on the screen in a fraction of a second which then gives you the entire rest of the delivered line to experience the delivery and tone, you're not literate enough in the language the show is subtitled in.

That's not exactly fair and is a bit offensive as well. It's one thing is it's just normal dialogue which you just glance down and read the subtitles, but when it's a bloody soliloquy where characters are babbling at top speed for an excruciating period of time and the subtitles are just flashing across the screen, there's more effort required to keep up with the subtitles while still trying to actually watch the show.

Obviously, people are going to have their own views on whether watching something subtitled or dubbed appeals to them and they are entitled to those preferences without being looked down upon.

I'll never agree with people who stress the need to watch anime with subtitles only. When I watch an anime I like to fully appreciate the animation and you just can't do that when you're too busy focused on reading what the characters are saying.

I disagree. Your eyes eventually train themselves to take in all of it.

Fair enough, but like I said above everybody is entitled to their own preferences. I'm not going to be fussed by people who have no interest in dubs so the fact that people would have issue with people who have a preference for dubs and voices such a preference is ludicrous, especially since it seems people go out of the way to mention how they have no interest in the dub when talking about releases like FUNimation's Dragon Boxes.

Well, the perfect solution would be if you were a seven-year-old Japanese boy living in Japan in 1986.

But, ya' know, almost none of us were. So how far do you want to take that standpoint of "EXACTLY THE SAME VIEWING EXPERIENCE!" before it gets ridiculous?

The same could be said for all of the show imported to Japan and dubbed into Japanese. They don't seem to have a problem with dubbing foreign material so why is their such disdain for it concerning imported Japanese stuff? Yes, the quality could certainly be significantly better but the whole "subbie vs. dubbie" thing has always been ridiculous. Whether someone is a subbie or a dubbie (for the record, I'm not using them in e pejorative sense) really shouldn't matter and it doesn't give anybody any form of authority over others about how they choose to enjoy the show.

While, by my own admission, I gain more enjoyment out of watching the show dubbed I can watch it subtitled if I choose and I have done so with a few episodes... as well as the Tree of Might movie as FUNimation had mistakenly sent me the subtitled version of the movie when I had ordered the dubbed VHS. In the rare instances when anime has been played on TV here, I have seen some which was only presented subtitled so, no... I don't personally hate subtitles but in the case of long running series such as Dragon Ball, my preference is to watch it dubbed.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

You should be lucky you heard Peter Kelamis in the movies. I'd rather have him then Cyclops(The worst Goku ever. Even Penguin Truth said he's worse then Sean Schemmel) any day.

[VegettoEX]

How is it any different from the manga reviews on the podcast, which went through what happened in each chapter and then gave thoughts afterwards?

Because we... ya' know... reviewed it, just like you said . At the point that this individual had posted in the thread, their "review" wasn't a review yet, and they didn't seem to understand what they were saying they were doing.

That's not exactly fair and is a bit offensive as well. It's one thing is it's just normal dialogue which you just glance down and read the subtitles, but when it's a bloody soliloquy where characters are babbling at top speed for an excruciating period of time and the subtitles are just flashing across the screen, there's more effort required to keep up with the subtitles while still trying to actually watch the show.

I don't know what to tell you. I stand by that statement. If you can't read it fast enough, you're not literate enough. The science behind it is solid (the way our eyes and then brain interpret letters and full words by larger recognition and quick processing; it doesn't actually work by us sitting and reading each individual letter).

The only point I'll concede on is the note that yeah, you've finished reading the line before you've heard how it's being delivered. I still think that's fine, because you're still hearing the inflection and tone of the line, as/after you're reading it. And you've STILL got TONS of time to focus on the rest of the visuals on-screen, particularly in a show like DBZ where... well... there ain't much animation. And when there is? Usually just people punching each other in the face, without a ton of dialogue.

The same could be said for all of the show imported to Japan and dubbed into Japanese. They don't seem to have a problem with dubbing foreign material so why is their such disdain for it concerning imported Japanese stuff?

See: Adamant, living in Norway (it is Norway, right?), not wanting to watch South Park dubbed.

[TripleRach]

The same could be said for all of the show imported to Japan and dubbed into Japanese. They don't seem to have a problem with dubbing foreign material so why is their such disdain for it concerning imported Japanese stuff?

What does this have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that people are hypocrites that worship everything Japan does?

Personally, I don't think anyone should dub anything, and it's not just Japanese material that I prefer to watch subtitled.

[AgitoZ]

Personally, I don't think anyone should dub anything, and it's not just Japanese material that I prefer to watch subtitled.

Indeed, some people just prefer to watch something in their original language. What was the example Mr. Ex used, "Do you watch Star Wars in French"?

It also helps that the other material I watch either A)Doesn't have dubbing, or B)Has inadequate dubbing.

[Ashura]

Indeed, some people just prefer to watch something in their original language. What was the example Mr. Ex used, "Do you watch Star Wars in French"?

Well, me, but that's because I like localization and seeing what other cultures do. For A Goofy Movie, they found someone in french who sounds *exactly* like Pauly Shore, I shit you not. I have the Japanese version of Ducktales the Movie as well, and it's interesting to hear Scrooge in Japanese.

A long time ago I wrote an article called 'Familiar Faces Dubbed into Foreign Lands' that gained a bunch of traction at the time. It unfortunately doesn't exist anymore I don't think (and was also written from a very teenagery point of view), however there was some cool stuff in there. Such as how in -- I think -- Brazil, the official voices for Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox were also the voices of Spike and Faye in Cowboy Bebop.

The only point I'll concede on is the note that yeah, you've finished reading the line before you've heard how it's being delivered. I still think that's fine, because you're still hearing the inflection and tone of the line, as/after you're reading it. And you've STILL got TONS of time to focus on the rest of the visuals on-screen, particularly in a show like DBZ where... well... there ain't much animation. And when there is? Usually just people punching each other in the face, without a ton of dialogue.

In terms of DB and DBZ, yeah, admittedly in that instance, subtitles really don't detract very much because it's either still-framed dialogue or Kamehamehas out the wazang. There's a big reason I prefer to watch my DB subbed 99% of the time.

Like I mentioned, I'm not trying to say there's anything at all wrong with liking subtitles... but I also think if there's a good dub there's nothing wrong with liking that either. Both of these things exist to please the fans in the end, and they're both imperfect solutions for various reasons outlined. (Translation itself is imperfect in the end as well, and being a good translator is honestly an artform unto itself.)

Personally, I check out the show and pick the one I feel suits viewing the show better, but again, that's just me. I also tend to watch it the other way if I'm interested enough. I also check out shows localized into other languages whenever I can as well, so maybe my opinion's a bit different than most.

[Adamant]

The same could be said for all of the show imported to Japan and dubbed into Japanese. They don't seem to have a problem with dubbing foreign material so why is their such disdain for it concerning imported Japanese stuff?

See: Adamant, living in Norway (it is Norway, right?), not wanting to watch South Park dubbed.

It is indeed Norway, and yes, South Park is hugely popular here without anyone having even entertained the thought of dubbing it. It's not a show aimed at children, so all the viewers are fully capable of reading, and have no need for a dub.

(and yeah - this "unless you watch everything in English you must be in love with Japan" nonsense is a ridiculous strawman argument. The general idiocy of the conclusion aside, you being a monolingual English-speaker whose only exposure to non-English media is Japanese cartoons doesn't make that the case for everyone.)

[Ashura]

The same could be said for all of the show imported to Japan and dubbed into Japanese. They don't seem to have a problem with dubbing foreign material so why is their such disdain for it concerning imported Japanese stuff?

See: Adamant, living in Norway (it is Norway, right?), not wanting to watch South Park dubbed.

It is indeed Norway, and yes, South Park is hugely popular here without anyone having even entertained the thought of dubbing it. It's not a show aimed at children, so all the viewers are fully capable of reading, and have no need for a dub.

(and yeah - this "unless you watch everything in English you must be in love with Japan" nonsense is a ridiculous strawman argument. The general idiocy of the conclusion aside, you being a monolingual English-speaker whose only exposure to non-English media is Japanese cartoons doesn't make that the case for everyone.)

None of this actually answers his actual question, though. It's also not like there aren't numerous examples of adult films and shows that are aired subtitled here in America. Even the Ghibli films appeared on TV subtitled.

He asked why there's such disdain when things ARE dubbed, and that Japan themselves dubs things without people complaining. Hell, for a long time, Power Rangers was reverse imported and dubbed; SPD was recently dubbed as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... K9oRRonjyk Powerpuff Girls was also fairly popular if I recall correctly, as well. So yeah, it does happen pretty often. But...

...analyzing this, though...

1.) I don't really think there's a disdain for dubbed material in general, at least in the US. There's a vocal minority, but it's about as big as the vocal minority of people who hate subtitles. The amazing thing about DVD and Bluray is you can watch whatever the hell you want to watch for the same price.

One thing I will say is that back in the day when VHS was separated, dubs did sell better. If this had more to do with dubs being generally 10 dollars cheaper than subs, who knows, there was no study on this, but dubs selling better was a fact.

2.) I'm not sure if we're the right people to be making the call in saying that no-one in Japan complains when they dub something like Kim Possible, et al. I know there does exist some form of animosity when it comes to localization if it's bad. I believe Square Enix was panned for its Modern Warfare 2 dub in Japan.

Even still, I think we need someone who actually lives in Japan to give us a little bit more insight into how Japan views dubs of American shows and how exactly the fansub, etc. scene looks there... if there even is one.

I figure it's probably similar to here, where only the niche fans give a flying frisbee and people generally enjoy a show whatever way is easily available to them. If there's any show that I figure fans might fansub in Japan, though, it's maybe Avatar the Last Airbender. I can't imagine that a lot of the jokes translate well in that, as it has a very American sense of humor... though I can imagine someone wanting a 'pure' experience.

Also, I will point out, EX's comment about 'not wanting to watch South Park dubbed' vs. Adamant's 'they never even thought about dubbing it' is a little contradictory and misleading. So thanks for clearing it up, Adamant.

Here's a question, Adamant; If they had ultimately decided to dub South Park into your native tongue, would you have cared very much? And beyond you, what is public opinion of this practice like where you live? Is there some sort of notable history out there on sub vs. dub in your country?

EDIT: Also, while this has strayed far off-topic, it is an interesting discussion so I hope it can continue. This has been less sub vs. dub flame wars than I think the conversation could've gone.

[Adamant]

Here's a question, Adamant; If they had ultimately decided to dub South Park into your native tongue, would you have cared very much?

It's a non-question. They would never have decided that.

And beyond you, what is public opinion of this practice like where you live?

To be perfectly blunt, because it's extremely hard to explain this shit to your average American who's grown up in American culture without coming across as offensive anyway...

Normal people would never want to watch a dub. Dubs are produced for people who can't read (ie young kids), to want to watch a dub as an adult would make you come across as severely mentally handicapped, or dyslectic to extreme degrees. To actually argue that dubs are preferable to subtitles is essentially saying "I'm an adult, I can't read, and I'm proud of it, because reading is lame". You just... don't.

Picture you sitting on a bus stop/train/plane/whatever with a normal-looking guy beside you. He takes up a book, then turns to you and says "Excuse me, could you read for me? I'm not very good at reading." Would you think of this as perfectly acceptable practice? Would you think this was a man of normal intelligence?

Is there some sort of notable history out there on sub vs. dub in your country?

No. Prior to bilingual DVD releases, people who enjoyed media aimed at a primarily young audience (ie Disney movies for the most part) accepted the fact that they got dubbed because a rather large chunk of the intended viewership couldn't read and lived with it.

The closest you'll get is when the geniuses behind the marketing of the recent TMNT movie assumed the potential audience would be children only and gave it a dub-only cinematic run, but that mostly resulted in the 20-somethings fanbase shrugging, saying "fuck that, enjoy your lost ticket sales" and either pirated or waited for the DVD.

[Ashura]

And beyond you, what is public opinion of this practice like where you live?

To be perfectly blunt, because it's extremely hard to explain this shit to your average American who's grown up in American culture without coming across as offensive anyway...

What you've explained isn't particularly hard; there are many differences in all cultures, which is why I asked in the first place. It is interesting, though.

Normal people would never want to watch a dub. Dubs are produced for people who can't read (ie young kids), to want to watch a dub as an adult would make you come across as severely mentally handicapped, or dyslectic to extreme degrees. To actually argue that dubs are preferable to subtitles is essentially saying "I'm an adult, I can't read, and I'm proud of it, because reading is lame". You just... don't.

This extreme attitude is something I've never come across from many other countries before, and is, again, one reason I asked. Different people's perspectives are interesting. It's pretty interesting how the attitude differs all the same. Thanks for sharing this.

One interesting thing I ran into when researching dubs is that there's a contingent in -- I believe -- Mexico which opposes Disney's redubs/using different dubs for a lot of their movies. The DVDs of late apparently contain dubs that a lot of people did not actually grow up with.

One of the other big reasons they make dubs of things is also so the content in question doesn't seem foreign sometimes, be it for racism or other issues. I guess there's no stigma on American/foreign content in Norway like that?

Further, do you view something like South Park as something akin to a literary work?

Picture you sitting on a bus stop/train/plane/whatever with a normal-looking guy beside you. He takes up a book, then turns to you and says "Excuse me, could you read for me? I'm not very good at reading." Would you think of this as perfectly acceptable practice? Would you think this was a man of normal intelligence?

So what you're saying is... anyone who listens to audiobooks in Norway is highly looked down upon? That's hilarious. Is there no industry for that, there? I'm not a big fan of audiobooks, but I think those who rely on things like that would have a conniption since a lot of people here are too lazy to actually read things.

[Super Sonic]

So Adamant, in your country people don't yell <Quit with the foreign stuff and put it in Norweigan> the way people in the States might yell, "English, motherf*&#$#!" I tend to get that when I tried to watch some of the Z movies subbed.

Well, today I learned I get mildly offended when someone puts down the dub of Bible Black...introspection is scary sometimes.

I think most people who badmouth its dub tend to get funny looks and made fun of that they really like the acting. Heh heh heh. For those of you confused, Bible Black is a hentai.

[Adamant]

This extreme attitude is something I've never come across from many other countries before, and is, again, one reason I asked. Different people's perspectives are interesting. It's pretty interesting how the attitude differs all the same. Thanks for sharing this.

I wouldn't really call it "extreme", it's more that it's so unthinkable anyone would do that you can't even have any attitude about the concept. Watching a movie and thinking "man, this movie would be better if they muted the voices and grabbed some local actors to talk over it"... it's just not something people do.

Would you say there's an "extreme attitude" against the idea of pissing on your food before eating it?

One of the other big reasons they make dubs of things is also so the content in question doesn't seem foreign sometimes, be it for racism or other issues. I guess there's no stigma on American/foreign content in Norway like that?

...hard to answer, really. Stuff that's extremely foreign and different from the standard pop culture is obviously harder to sell than stuff that isn't, but I wouldn't say there's any "stigma"... more that people are going to be more interesting in seeing/reading what they know rather than something completely new and different. But that goes for everywhere.

Further, do you view something like South Park as something akin to a literary work?

I'm afraid I don't get the question.

So what you're saying is... anyone who listens to audiobooks in Norway is highly looked down upon? That's hilarious. Is there no industry for that, there? I'm not a big fan of audiobooks, but I think those who rely on things like that would have a conniption since a lot of people here are too lazy to actually read things.

Wait, are you saying sitting in a chair and listening to an audio book because they have an aversion towards picking up a book and reading is commonplace in America? That's... uh, special. Refer to the part I wrote above as to how certain things are just so unthinkable you have no attitude towards it, I guess.

We do have an audiobook industry, yes. It's targeted towards people in a position where looking into a book isn't going to be a very good idea (ie, walking, running, driving, etc). It's not a massive industry, but we're not that huge a population either, and the audience is somewhat limited.

So Adamant, in your country people don't yell <Quit with the foreign stuff and put it in Norweigan> the way people in the States might yell, "English, motherf*&#$#!" I tend to get that when I tried to watch some of the Z movies subbed.

Someone with extreme nostalgic fondness towards a particular Norwegian dub of an old cartoon might politely ask if they'd be willing to switch to the version they grew up on and loved... but yeah, that'd be the extent of it.

[NeoKING]

I wouldn't really call it "extreme", it's more that it's so unthinkable anyone would do that you can't even have any attitude about the concept. Watching a movie and thinking "man, this movie would be better if they muted the voices and grabbed some local actors to talk over it"... it's just not something people do.

Would you say there's an "extreme attitude" against the idea of pissing on your food before eating it?

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree. I would say that your country's mindset against dubbing is extreme, to go so far as - if I'm understanding this correctly - considering someone who watches dubs to be on equal intelligence levels with that as a child. That's beyond extreme, it's kind of condescending. How is it "not something people do?" It's a practice done all around the globe. Voice acting itself is a part of the acting industry almost anywhere you go in this world, and you know how big the acting industry is, being a major segment of the entertainment industry. A lot of actors even get their start voice acting. I don't think you can even defend your country's attitude in regards to dubbing.

Sorry if this may come off as rude, but it seems offensive in that your argument seems to be "If you can't be bothered with subs then you ought to step your reading game up. Dubs are for weirdos."

[Gaffer Tape]

How does lack of dubbing foreign media nullify the business of voice acting? Most voice acting in any given country is for local productions. Dubbing foreign properties is generally a comparatively small market. I mean, look at the U.S. Would the extinction of anime dubs kill the voice acting industry or even strongly affect it? Hell, anime dubbing is generally one of the least profitable jobs in the industry. There are probably plenty of voice actors in Norway. They just act in original programming... or the burgeoning audiobook industry. =P

[Adamant]

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree. I would say that your country's mindset against dubbing is extreme, to go so far as - if I'm understanding this correctly - considering someone who watches dubs to be on equal intelligence levels with that as a child. That's beyond extreme, it's kind of condescending. How is it "not something people do?"

Because, as I said, there aren't dubs. There are no people who watches them. There are no people advocating them. There are no people TO be considered on equal intelligence with that of a child at all. There's just dubs of childrens' media, the children who watch them, and possibly some guardians watching because the kid is watching. These people we're condescending against don't exist.

It's a practice done all around the globe. Voice acting itself is a part of the acting industry almost anywhere you go in this world, and you know how big the acting industry is, being a major segment of the entertainment industry. A lot of actors even get their start voice acting. I don't think you can even defend your country's attitude in regards to dubbing.

The attitude towards what they might do elsewhere (as if how some random Germans prefer to watch their Hollywood movies really matters to your average guy) is mostly a collective "*shrug* That's weird. Good thing it's not like that here", and that's only from the people who give enough of a shit to know of it in the first place. Call it condescending if you wish, but I don't think there's any point in having opinions about every minor aspect of every culture out there.

How does lack of dubbing foreign media nullify the business of voice acting? Most voice acting in any given country is for local productions. Dubbing foreign properties is generally a comparatively small market. I mean, look at the U.S. Would the extinction of anime dubs kill the voice acting industry or even strongly affect it? Hell, anime dubbing is generally one of the least profitable jobs in the industry. There are probably plenty of voice actors in Norway. They just act in original programming... or the burgeoning audiobook industry. =P

Actually, there no real "voice acting" industry, just a general acting one.
There are a couple people (like Harald Mæle) who are primarily known for their voiceover roles rather than anything else, but there's no industry. There's not even a real Norwegian word to describe "voice actors", we just use "voices" or "actors".

[AgitoZ]

If I could step in and voice my own native country's perspective on dubbing. In Chile, it definitely happens but no one complains when there isn't a dub to something. People are more interested in simply understanding it. And this isn't even from a cartoons perspective, I mostly mean movies in general. I assume it's from that the fact the majority of entertainment media, especially movies, are going to be foreign.

Or at least that's what I've experienced.

[Rukura]

I think one of the issues here is that a lot of people that are from North America are very used to having every major entertainment production made "locally" and/or produced in their own language.

As a result, people in other countries have to rely on their own knowledge of the english language, or...uhm...ya know...subtitles. Because, over here, if it's not Pixar or Disney or DreamWorks it's also not dubbed (except anime shown in kids channels). Even if it were, you would have a situation where I don't want to see "How I Met Your Mother" or "The Simpsons" dubbed, I know it won't be the same experience so I prefer to watch the original. I did the same thing when I was a kid with "Robocop", "Batman" and "Mortal Kombat".
Now, when I'm even more aware of how good the original production of a series made in Japan is, and even more so in comparison to the localized version I got, why I am considered an elitist or a japanophile? Was I being some kind of an elitist when I chose to watch Robocop with subtitles because I didn't know english that well yet? Or when I watched american cartoons raw on Cartoon Network because the local productions were crap?
How can some say "I just can't read the subs fast enough and enjoy the animation" when so many people do the same and with the subs not in their native language?

Also, as a small side comment, past posts make it seem like some people are discussing a dub's "accuracy" but with different concepts on what that is. Because an "accurate" dub, the way I see it, doesn't have to be 140% faithful to the script. But it does need to be accurate to the show, the feel of the show, and who the characters are.

[Ashura]

Reading his initial statement it does still come off a bit extreme to me, but I think what Adamant was trying to get across is that dubbing foreign properties is more unthinkable or abnormal than anything else. That you just don't see it and it's not in the minds of the people to want it. It's not that there's some kind of active derision towards people who like dubs in Norway, what he's trying to say is they don't really exist save for children's cartoons.

Let me know if I'm off-base here, Adamant.

Would you say there's an "extreme attitude" against the idea of pissing on your food before eating it?

The thing is, you're equating something as bad as pissing in your food to be the same as a full-language localization, which are two very disparate things to compare. I understand that where you're from it's unheard of, but it's not unheard of elsewhere, and the productions we do here in the US aren't all as bad in a lot of people's opinions as you seem to feel they are.

This isn't to devalue your viewpoint, I'm just saying that your viewpoint isn't the only viewpoint.

Wait, are you saying sitting in a chair and listening to an audio book because they have an aversion towards picking up a book and reading is commonplace in America? That's... uh, special.

I wouldn't say commonplace, and I doubt people listen to audiobooks and just sit around, but there are actual people here who would never 'read' if they had to pick up a printed book/e-paper to do so. Sad, but true.

Dubbing foreign properties is generally a comparatively small market. I mean, look at the U.S. Would the extinction of anime dubs kill the voice acting industry or even strongly affect it? Hell, anime dubbing is generally one of the least profitable jobs in the industry

It's sort of all on the decline here in the US. It's mostly going toward video games now. Even a lot of SAG shows continue to go cheaper and cheaper.

How can some say "I just can't read the subs fast enough and enjoy the animation" when so many people do the same and with the subs not in their native language?

Here's the thing. I can fully enjoy watching a show when it's subtitled, but I also feel I can't appreciate the animation completely when there are frames where my attention is removed from where the director intended it to be while I'm reading said subtitles. Like it or not, subtitles can derail the director's intent the same as dubs do... you cannot read subtitles without missing 3-to-30 frames here and there. In the end, it comes down to what you'd rather sacrifice. 30 frames might not seem like a lot, but it is in animation. Good animation, at least.

Some people don't see it this way and feel like they're not missing anything, some people do. Just because people don't have the same opinion doesn't mean their opinion is any less valid than mine. Both viewpoints are perfectly fine and valid.

Personally, even on sub-only shows I'll likely rewatch animated sections I feel I didn't get to appreciate fully with subtitles. In the end, I find that a fine compromise, and I understand some people who watch shows might not be all that into the artistry of animation. Personally, I love animation itself as an artform, so I study things frame-by-frame from time-to-time. If you have a well animated show, I don't care where it came from; I'm probably at least checking out some scenes from it even if I'm not a fan of the genre.

I'm a big nerd for film wobble and the rough edges of painted celluloid telecined from 35mm. Things like Castle of Cagliostro are beautiful to me, and subtitles can mar the artistry. If I couldn't turn off subtitles on DVDs and Bluray to check out scenes I'm really into, I don't know what I'd do. I absolutely hate the Macross Plus Movie DVD, in fact, because the subtitles are hard-coded on the video and I can't turn them off and watch the fight scenes without obstruction.

Also, Thank you Agito for your perspective. Rukura, just to be curious, where are you from specifically?