The Awkward Age

[Herms]

Hey Herms, would it be too much to ask for an organized timeline about all this? Like, you have the year and then bullet points explaining the events that happened in the year, the twist here would be tags explaining in which media the timed events belong to, be it manga, anime, TV special or Daizenshuu. I think that way would be easier for all of us to understand.

Well, I’ll try. First I’ve sorted out all the bits of information I mentioned in my initial post out by source.

Manga

Chapter 333 (DBZ 139)
--Trunks says he’s 17 (during first time trip)

Chapter 334 (DBZ 140)
--Trunks says he came from roughly 20 years in the future (during his first time trip)

Chapter 335 (DBZ 141)
--Trunks says he’ll be born 2 and a half years from now
--Trunks says androids will attack in 3 years, on May 12th
--Trunks says Gohan killed 4 years ago (in his timeline)
--Trunks says Goku will die “not long from now”
--Trunks says he’ll return in 3 years (from Goku’s perspective) if he survives long enough in his own timeline

Chapter 358 (DBZ 164)
--Trunks says Cell came from Age 788, and that he came from 3 years earlier (during second time trip)
--Trunks says Cell arrived in this timeline “about 4 years ago”

Chapter 363 (DBZ 169)
--Cell says he won’t be completed until 24 years in the future
--Cell says it takes him 3 years to mature after returning to egg form

Chapter 419 (DBZ 225)
--Narrator says 3 years pass between Trunks defeating the androids in his timeline and his fight with Cell; says the time machine has “finally” charged up for a round trip

Trunks: the Story
--No.17 says he last fought Gohan about a year ago
--Narrator says “about 3 years” pass between Gohan’s death and Trunks’ first time trip
--Bulma says time machine takes 8 months to charge for a round trip
--Bulma says Gohan killed 3 years before Trunks’ first time trip
--Bulma tells Trunks to go 17 years into past

Anime

Trunks TV Special
--Narrator says half a year passes between Goku’s death and androids’ attack; Trunks present at Goku’s death
--Narrator says 13 years pass between androids’ attack and Trunks beginning to train with Gohan
--Narrator says 3 years pass between Gohan’s death and time machine’s completion
--Bulma says Trunks will go “about 20 years” into the past

Daizenshuu 7

Alternate timeline explanation
Age 764: Freeza attacks Earth
Age 766: Trunks is born
Age 767: Androids attack
Age 780: Gohan dies
Age 784: Trunks’ first time trip
Age 785: Trunks’ second time trip
Age 788: Trunks kills his timelines’ Cell

Cell bio
Age 762: Cell’s development begins
Age 786: Cell’s development finishes

Now I’ve tried to throw all that contradictory information together into a single timeline. To make things easier to keep track of, and since the official DB “Age” timeline is based off one possible interpretation of these conflicting sources, I’m going to designate the year Freeza comes to Earth and Trunks shows up as “Year 0” and list everything in relation to that. So when Trunks says he comes from about 20 years in the future, that becomes approximately “Year 20”, and when Cell shows up 1 year before Trunks that becomes “Year -1”. The specific years given in Daizenshuu 7 are converted into this system; so since it has Freeza coming to Earth in Age 764 and Gohan being killed in Age 780, I’ve listed it as placing Gohan’s death in Year 16. I’m also just throwing together events from the parallel timelines into one list. Events that only occur in the “main” series timeline are italicized.

I’ve listed the source for each date in parenthesis. When multiple sources are listed, if they’re separated by commas it means that the same date is given in those different sources (ie, both chapter 334 and Daizenshuu 7 say Trunks initially comes from 20 years in the future). But if the two sources are combined with a + mark, it means I’ve only obtained that date by combining information from those sources. So for instance in chapter 358 Trunks says Cell came from 3 years further in the future than he did, while in chapter 363 Cell says he won’t be completed for another 24 years. By combining those two sources you get that Trunks came from 21 years in the future. On that note, Trunks: the Story has Bulma describing Trunks as going 17 years into the past during his initial trip, contradicting pretty much everything else. The side-story also has other information that fits in better with what we’re told elsewhere, so when using that information together with the idea that Trunks goes about 20 years into the past (as said in chapter 334) I’ve listed it as “Trunks: the Story+c334”. When combining that information with the side-story’s 17 year figure, I’ve uncharitably labeled it “Trunks: the Story+stupid”.

Well anyway, here it is. Hopefully it makes enough sense, given the subject matter:

Year -2
--Gero’s computer begins creating Cell (D7)

Year -1
--Cell arrives in “main” timeline (c358)
--Cell goes underground to grow? (c363)

Year 0
--Freeza comes to Earth
--Trunks appears and warns Goku and co.
--Goku dies “not long from now” (c335)

Year 2
--Trunks is born (D7)
--Cell’s underground growth ends? (c363)

Year 2.5
--Trunks is born (c335)
--Goku dies (TV special)

Year 3
--Androids attack on May 12th (c335, D7)

Year 14
--Gohan is killed (Trunks: the Story+stupid)

Year 16
--Gohan is killed (c335, D7)
--Gohan starts training Trunks (TV special)

Year 17
--Trunks’ first time trip (Trunks: the Story+stupid)
--Gohan is killed (Trunks: the Story+c334)

Year 19
--Time machine is complete (TV special)

Year 20, approximately
--Time machine completed, Trunks’ first time trip (c334, TV special, D7)
--8 months later, Trunks’ second time trip? (Trunks: the Story)

Year 21
--Trunks’ second time trip (D7)

Year 22
--Cell’s development finishes (D7)

Year 24
--Trunks’ second time trip, assuming Cell travels to past the same year his development ends (c358+c363)
--Trunks kills his timelines’ Cell (D7)

Year 27
--Cell’s development is completed (c363)
--Cell goes to past? (c358)
--Assuming Trunks’ 2nd trip is in Year 24, this would be the year Trunks kills Cell in his own timeline (c419)

[Fox666]

--Trunks says he’s 17 (during first time trip)
--Trunks says he came from roughly 20 years in the future (during his first time trip)
--Trunks says he’ll be born 2 and a half years from now

That means "roughly 20 years" are actually 19 and ½ years.

--Trunks says Cell came from Age 788, and that he came from 3 years earlier (during second time trip)
--Trunks says Cell arrived in this timeline “about 4 years ago”

Taking Trunks appearance in account, it should have taken only 8 months beetween his trips from his perspective. Meaning the second time he comes from real 20 years (and about 2 months) in the future.

That means Trunks come from 785 and the current timeline is set in 765.

--Cell says he won’t be completed until 24 years in the future

That would put the current timeline in 764 (i.e. 788 minus 24). However here we already have conflicting information.

Supposedly Trunks is from 20 years in the future, and Cell comes from 3 years ealier than Cell, how can it be that Cell comes from 24 years in the future? Is it because I am not taking in account an unrevealed amount of months?

--Narrator says 3 years pass between Trunks defeating the androids in his timeline and his fight with Cell; says the time machine has “finally” charged up for a round trip

Since Trunks comes from 3 years earlier, that makes sense. However, again that should put Cell completion in 23 years in the future, not 24.

Another way of looking is that Trunks is 17 and a ½ years old, and the second trip is set 20 years and 8 months in the future. Then these 3 years beetween Trunks second trip and Cell completion could make it up to 24 years.

So we could take it that the current timeline is in 764 and Trunks comes from 785, while the difference is less than 21 years.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Perhaps we should just treat the first mentions of time-related events as what we should primarily go with, and regard the later mentions as plotholes. Sure, there are still contradictions there, but it might make things less of a clusterfuck to deal with. I.e. since, in the manga, Trunks first mentioned Gohan having died "4 years ago", we should just go with that instead of "3 years ago" like the Trunks chapter says later (although "3 years" does seem to be the norm for time gaps like this, but that's probably irrelevant).

Also, I thought it might be worth mentioning that, in DBZ Movie #7, Trunks says he came from 20 years in the future too. Apparently, it's this:

「おい人造人間! 俺は 20年後の未来からやって来た トランクスだ! 20年後の地球には、 お前は存在していない! 今日ここで悟空さんに倒されてしまうからな!!」
"Oi Jinzouningen! Ore wa nijuunengo no mirai kara yatte-kita Torankusu da! Nijuunengo no chikyuu ni wa, omae wa sonzai shite inai! Kyou koko de Gokuu-san ni taosarete shimau kara na!!"

And the basic translation is something like this:

"Come on, Android! I'm the one who came from 20 years into the future, Trunks! On the Earth of 20 years from now, you don't exist! That's because Gokū-san will defeat you here and now!"

So we should probably just entirely exclude the "17 years" line, since "20 years" appears to be the one that's used more consistently throughout mediums.

[Perfect]

Okay so there was the question of what was Cell doing between the time he was "born" and the time he stole the time machine. I was reviewing the material for my own time line guide that proposes solutions towards the discrepancies (told you I'd work on it!), when I suddenly came across the episode of the anime where Cell explains his future to Trunks. Cell goes into detail (visually mainly) about his life story. It starts from him hatching almost immediately in the lab to hunting humans and searching for the Artificial Humans (786-788). He comes to the conclusion that they're no longer in existence and seeks out Trunks for his time machine (788).

I don't even remember if it was established that he had to spend any amount of time underground at all the first time he grew.

No there isn't anything that suggests he does, to my knowledge. I think he's specifically referring to it being required based on manually reverting. As I was talking about above, every filler segment tends to show him hatching immediately, which is ultimately all we have to go on.

Supposedly Trunks is from 20 years in the future, and Cell comes from 3 years ealier than Cell, how can it be that Cell comes from 24 years in the future? Is it because I am not taking in account an unrevealed amount of months?

According to Daizenshuu #7 placing Cell's development as beginning in 762 and ending in 786, that would mean that the 24 years would be specifically referring to the total time needed for completion. We also don't know if Cell knows the exact dates of everything, especially after time traveling and gestating underground.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Okay so there was the question of what was Cell doing between the time he was "born" and the time he stole the time machine. I was reviewing the material for my own time line guide that proposes solutions towards the discrepancies (told you I'd work on it!), when I suddenly came across the episode of the anime where Cell explains his future to Trunks. Cell goes into detail (visually mainly) about his life story. It starts from him hatching almost immediately in the lab to hunting humans and searching for the Artificial Humans (786-788). He comes to the conclusion that they're no longer in existence and seeks out Trunks for his time machine (788).

OK, three things:

1) I wonder how the hell he'd "search" for the Androids if they have no ki. Even in the main timeline, while absorbing humans, he waited until he felt Piccolo's ki before he went after them. Perhaps it was that he came across Trunks, who told them that they were dead.

2) In Trunks' timeline, why would he absorb humans in the first place if (IMO) it was implied that, in the main timeline, he only did it to gain the power that he'd lost from reverting into his larval stage and hibernating for three or four years, so he could overpower the Androids and absorb them?

3) The anime isn't manga canon anyway, but I guess it's nice to bring it up. It often does help embellish out things like this that weren't entirely explored in the manga, but it still introduces a truckload of filler, plotholes and inconsistencies of its own, making it a distinctly seperate continuity from the manga.

[NANLIT]

I don't even remember if it was established that he had to spend any amount of time underground at all the first time he grew.

No there isn't anything that suggests he does, to my knowledge. I think he's specifically referring to it being required based on manually reverting. As I was talking about above, every filler segment tends to show him hatching immediately, which is ultimately all we have to go on.

So was he killing humans the entire 2 years while in search of 17 and 18, then? He can suppress his ki so that could be how he never ran into Trunks until he killd him, Trunks could never find the mysterious monster responsible for leaving cities as ghosttowns. He may or may not need to absorb humans for strength, but I can still see him doing it anyway to have some fun. I think there was some filler when Cell was telling his origins to Piccolo of him killing humans through absorption in his own timeline (which I think is a unique and creepy form of killinhg).

Piccolo Daimao, does Cell need a reason to kill humans? Could he not do it just to do it? He does have the cells of Freeza, his father, and Vegeta after all and he was designed to destroy and kill.

[Perfect]

Okay so there was the question of what was Cell doing between the time he was "born" and the time he stole the time machine. I was reviewing the material for my own time line guide that proposes solutions towards the discrepancies (told you I'd work on it!), when I suddenly came across the episode of the anime where Cell explains his future to Trunks. Cell goes into detail (visually mainly) about his life story. It starts from him hatching almost immediately in the lab to hunting humans and searching for the Artificial Humans (786-788). He comes to the conclusion that they're no longer in existence and seeks out Trunks for his time machine (788).

OK, three things:

1) I wonder how the hell he'd "search" for the Androids if they have no ki. Even in the main timeline, while absorbing humans, he waited until he felt Piccolo's ki before he went after them. Perhaps it was that he came across Trunks, who told them that they were dead.

2) In Trunks' timeline, why would he absorb humans in the first place if (IMO) it was implied that, in the main timeline, he only did it to gain the power that he'd lost from reverting into his larval stage and hibernating for three or four years, so he could overpower the Androids and absorb them?

3) The anime isn't manga canon anyway, but I guess it's nice to bring it up. It often does help embellish out things like this that weren't entirely explored in the manga, but it still introduces a truckload of filler, plotholes and inconsistencies of its own, making it a distinctly seperate continuity from the manga.

1. It'd simply be a matter of hoping to cross paths I assume, or overhear a radio/TV broadcast. Regardless of which, it could be a tactical approach to something such as killing all the humans. This way 17 and 18 would only attack populated areas, etc. There's tons of possibilities that the official source provides us here. Also, remember that Cell knows nothing about time travel and is merely following what the computer told him to do, how searched for them though, is subjective to his own whim.

2. The anime suggests that absorbing humans made him stronger, simply put. In the manga you could just say that he needed to regain the power he lost, as opposed to wanting more power.

3. It doesn't always bring up plot holes, inconsistencies with the manga sure, but a lot of the anime's plot holes are really subjective. I mean if the anime says he was absorbing humans and looking for the Artificial Humans during that time frame, that's good enough for me.

So was he killing humans the entire 2 years while in search of 17 and 18, then?

So it seems, I'll give the episode a watch in the evening.

Edit: Cell appeared to be nomadic, toying with the humans for something to do (evidently absorbing them). He roughly says something along the lines of,
"However, I did not come across #17 or #18, whom I was searching for, everywhere."

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo Daimao, does Cell need a reason to kill humans? Could he not do it just to do it? He does have the cells of Freeza, his father, and Vegeta after all and he was designed to destroy and kill.

I guess you're right in that Cell may not necessarily need a reason to kill humans, but in the main timeline, it just seemed like it was more to surpass the Androids than anything, rather than just doing it for the hell of it.

Even if it was to sate his boredom, it would've been a waste of time if absorbing the Androids to reach completion was his main priority. I mean, after he became Perfect, he didn't still absorb humans (if he even still could anymore), because he just wanted to have fun by fighting strong opponents. He even said in his broadcast that they shouldn't worry, since he had all the power he needed or something like that. And in the 10-day wait before the Cell Games, it was depicted that Cell merely stood in the arena, perhaps refining the grounds a bit, for the whole time, with the only people said to be killed being the army that attacked him.

1) I wonder how the hell he'd "search" for the Androids if they have no ki. Even in the main timeline, while absorbing humans, he waited until he felt Piccolo's ki before he went after them. Perhaps it was that he came across Trunks, who told them that they were dead.

2) In Trunks' timeline, why would he absorb humans in the first place if (IMO) it was implied that, in the main timeline, he only did it to gain the power that he'd lost from reverting into his larval stage and hibernating for three or four years, so he could overpower the Androids and absorb them?

3) The anime isn't manga canon anyway, but I guess it's nice to bring it up. It often does help embellish out things like this that weren't entirely explored in the manga, but it still introduces a truckload of filler, plotholes and inconsistencies of its own, making it a distinctly seperate continuity from the manga.

1. It'd simply be a matter of hoping to cross paths I assume, or overhear a radio/TV broadcast. Regardless of which, it could be a tactical approach to something such as killing all the humans. This way 17 and 18 would only attack populated areas, etc. There's tons of possibilities that the official source provides us here. Also, remember that Cell knows nothing about time travel and is merely following what the computer told him to do, how searched for them though, is subjective to his own whim.

2. The anime suggests that absorbing humans made him stronger, simply put. In the manga you could just say that he needed to regain the power he lost, as opposed to wanting more power.

3. It doesn't always bring up plot holes, inconsistencies with the manga sure, but a lot of the anime's plot holes are really subjective. I mean if the anime says he was absorbing humans and looking for the Artificial Humans during that time frame, that's good enough for me.

1) I just think that sounds like a bit of a wild goose chase, if there was no guarantee that Cell would be immediately alerted to explosions or something (since Gero intended for #17 and #18 to kill Goku, and then be absorbed by Cell, who'd take over the world, so I doubt he factored in them destroying shit for kicks in the interim), although perhaps you could put that down to Dr. Gero (or his computer) not thinking ahead.

2) No, I don't think you understand. In the main timeline, it could (and, IMO, was implied) be that he wanted to regain the power he lost and/or surpass the Androids so he could overpower and absorb them.

3) But then, a lot of the anime's plotholes aren't subjective. And the anime still isn't within the same continuity, even aside from plotholes and inconsistencies, because of filler, different lines or adjustments to them, fights taking place differently, etc. Like how in the manga, Freeza killed Cargo, while in the anime, Dodoria did. Not berating you if you do want to accept certain things from the anime into your manga canon, but we're talking about it in a general sense here, and everyone's opinions differ.

[sanorin]

Herms, great job on the guides! However, a little mistake you made:

when Cell shows up 4 years before Trunks that becomes “Year -4”

Year -4
--Cell arrives in “main” timeline (c358)

Year -1
--Cell’s underground growth ends? (c363)

Cell shows up 4 years before Trunks' second trip, which is Year 3. So Cell arrives in Year -1.

And his underground growth should end not long before they find the time machine in Year 3, as his skin was still wet.

About the rest of information listed, my head is about to explode, but I will tell you if I find any other error.

[Herms]

Cell shows up 4 years before Trunks' second trip, which is Year 3. So Cell arrives in Year -1.

Rats rats rats, that's right. Thanks for pointing that out; I've fixed it now.

And his underground growth should end not long before they find the time machine in Year 3, as his skin was still wet.

It's contradictory though, because they say Cell arrived 4 years ago but that he grew for 3 years. So there's a missing year somewhere in there. That's why I put question marks in the notes for Cell going underground and his growth ending.

I've added the source list and timeline into the first post.

[sanorin]

It's contradictory though, because they say Cell arrived 4 years ago but that he grew for 3 years. So there's a missing year somewhere in there.

Maaaayyybe it could be like this: Trunks says the machine arrived "about 4 years ago", right? So maybe he just looked at the year, if present time is May 767 (Year 3), Cell could have arrived in December 763 (Year -1). That would make sense for later Piccolo and Cell saying he took 3 years to grow, when it would be 3 years and 5 months. That way the 3/4 years contradiction wouldn't be that big of a problem. What do you think?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Maybe Toriyama made the (debatable) "mistake" of saying that Cell would be finished in "24 years" because Trunks had travelled back 20 years, and then Cell had come back "4 years ago" (from the storyline's current present perspective). 20 + 4 = 24.

[Fox666]

It's contradictory though, because they say Cell arrived 4 years ago but that he grew for 3 years. So there's a missing year somewhere in there. That's why I put question marks in the notes for Cell going underground and his growth ending.

Supposedly the future changed because of Cell, not Trunks. Perhaps it has something to do with Cell arriving before Trunks first trip?

[Fox666]

--Cell says he won’t be completed until 24 years in the future

Okay, I think the math behind that is roughly 20 years + 8 months + 3 years = 24 years. Essentially Toriyama would have forget that on the second trip Trunks is from 17 or 18 years in the future instead of 20 like the first.

--Bulma tells Trunks to go 17 years into past

That should be around the time the Androids would arrive. So this time Toriyama reduced the 3 years of the second trip to the 20 years difference, however he shouldn't since this is Trunks' first trip.

[Piccolo Daimao]

--Bulma tells Trunks to go 17 years into past

That should be around the time the Androids would arrive. So this time Toriyama reduced the 3 years of the second trip to the 20 years difference, however he shouldn't since this is Trunks' first trip.

Or he figured that, since Trunks was 17 years old and he was going back to a time where he wasn't born yet (but soon would be, if "2 and 1/2 half years" is soon), then he'd be travelling back 17 years. Obviously, that's a contradiction of the established events, but that was probably Toriyama's line of thinking. At least, it was mine when I first read it, and without particularly thinking much about it, I assumed that the "roughly 20 years" line was wrong.