Keep Vegeta dead?

[NANLIT]

Well Trunks didn't intend to fight Freeza; he wanted to meet Goku alone and tell him about the future. Going by that, Bulma herself could have gone back in time (like the day after Goku would return to Earth for example) and meet Goku in private to talk about the future.

[Mystic Gohan]

Trunks didn't intend to fight frieza? I thought that was a big part of him coming back. He didn't think goku was gonna make, so he decided to clean up the mess. Atleast anime dictates that,

[Perfect]

Who's to say Bulma would even "safely" make it. Plus, who's to say she'd want to endanger her own existence (we don't know if Bulma believed in the time line splits by that time period, at least not till after the first round trip).

[NANLIT]

Trunks didn't intend to fight Freeza? I thought that was a big part of him coming back. He didn't think goku was gonna make, so he decided to clean up the mess. Atleast anime dictates that,

He was wary about changing history too much. The way I remember it was that he told Goku that he (Goku) was supposed to kill Freeza, as it originally happened, and he didn't think Goku'd make it in time so he stepped in. When Goku mentions his Instantaneous Movement technique that could have taken him to Earth instantly, Trunks then scolds himself for taking out Freeza and changing history and that he wanted to meet Goku without the others around.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's right. Trunks believed that his coming back had somehow caused a change in the timeline to not allow Goku to do what he was supposed to do and kill Freeza, so he stepped in to correct the damage. But it never needed to be done. Trunks was wrong. That is why any random idiot could have taken the time machine: because Freeza did not need to be dealt with by the time traveler. Also, Trunks had to hide his identity because he was afraid knowledge of who he was could keep him from being born. Had it been anyone else (from the main cast, that is), that knowledge would not have needed to be a secret since their being born would not be a possibility.

[Michsi]

That's right. Trunks believed that his coming back had somehow caused a change in the timeline to not allow Goku to do what he was supposed to do and kill Freeza, so he stepped in to correct the damage. But it never needed to be done. Trunks was wrong. That is why any random idiot could have taken the time machine: because Freeza did not need to be dealt with by the time traveler. Also, Trunks had to hide his identity because he was afraid knowledge of who he was could keep him from being born. Had it been anyone else (from the main cast, that is), that knowledge would not have needed to be a secret since their being born would not be a possibility.

Though to be honest, it was essential that he show himself while the others were around because Goku alone would have forgotten the time and place

Oh well, it's true it didn't necessarily have to be Trunks and the story could have been written differently. Often times I wondered what it would have been like if Toriyama had kept his original idea with Nr.20 and Nr19.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yeah, it could've easily just been future Gohan or Bulma who would've travelled back in time to deliver the warning. If it was Gohan, he could just wear a disguise and/or suppress his ki to protect his identity.

[Gaffer Tape]

But why would there need to be a disguise? Wouldn't Gohan pull a lot more weight if they knew it was him rather than just some hobo in a cloak? Again, the only reason Trunks kept his identity a secret was because of the fear that it would keep Blooma and Vegeta from getting together.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But why would there need to be a disguise? Wouldn't Gohan pull a lot more weight if they knew it was him rather than just some hobo in a cloak? Again, the only reason Trunks kept his identity a secret was because of the fear that it would keep Blooma and Vegeta from getting together.

Well, it wasn't only that Trunks wanted to keep his identity secret in case Vegeta and Bulma never got together. He regretted killing Freeza, because he didn't want to cause any more changes in the timeline, especially ones that were unnecessary. So, logically, Gohan would follow the same plan and just intend to go there, deliver Gokuu's medicine and the warning, then leave without anyone knowing who he was.

[Gaffer Tape]

But Trunks said he never intended to meet the others anyway. He only went there to meet Goku, who he did immediately give his identity to. If Gohan had had the same plan, then, again, he would have felt no need to disguise himself.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But Trunks said he never intended to meet the others anyway. He only went there to meet Goku, who he did immediately give his identity to. If Gohan had had the same plan, then, again, he would have felt no need to disguise himself.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Even though someone else killing Freeza may not have had large side-effects to the timeline, Trunks still regretted doing it. He told Gokuu with the assurance that he wouldn't reveal it to Bulma or Vegeta, since doing so could endanger his existence.

Even if them knowing it was Gohan would pull more weight, what does it really matter? Even beforehand, all they knew about Trunks was that he was a random Super Saiyan who killed Freeza. Of course, yes, they have more insight into his power, but still. Like you said, Trunks' plan was never to transform or meet the others, so his plan would've meant that he'd only know he was Vegeta and Bulma's son, but not necessarily that he was a Super Saiyan.

Anyway, I don't know if this is even worth debating over, since it's a minor thing. I'm getting a bit lost on my own trail.

[Gaffer Tape]

But Trunks said he never intended to meet the others anyway. He only went there to meet Goku, who he did immediately give his identity to. If Gohan had had the same plan, then, again, he would have felt no need to disguise himself.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Even though someone else killing Freeza may not have had large side-effects to the timeline, Trunks still regretted doing it. He told Gokuu with the assurance that he wouldn't reveal it to Bulma or Vegeta, since doing so could endanger his existence.

I'm not sure how Freeza is coming into this. All I'm saying is that Trunks never disguised himself. Or at least that was not his plan. His original plan was to come to the past, watch Goku kill Freeza, reveal himself (identity and all) to Goku, and tell him about the artificial humans. Based on that information, there was no need for a disguise. He would not have polluted the timeline, and the information of his birth would only be known to Goku, and only be known in order to get Goku up to speed on the events of the future.

If it had been, say, Gohan, I don't see why it would have needed to have been any different, or why there would have needed to have been a disguise based on the plan as it was SUPPOSED to have happened, not how Trunks's uninformed decisions made him have to improvise it.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But Trunks said he never intended to meet the others anyway. He only went there to meet Goku, who he did immediately give his identity to. If Gohan had had the same plan, then, again, he would have felt no need to disguise himself.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Even though someone else killing Freeza may not have had large side-effects to the timeline, Trunks still regretted doing it. He told Gokuu with the assurance that he wouldn't reveal it to Bulma or Vegeta, since doing so could endanger his existence.

I'm not sure how Freeza is coming into this. All I'm saying is that Trunks never disguised himself. Or at least that was not his plan. His original plan was to come to the past, watch Goku kill Freeza, reveal himself (identity and all) to Goku, and tell him about the artificial humans. Based on that information, there was no need for a disguise. He would not have polluted the timeline, and the information of his birth would only be known to Goku, and only be known in order to get Goku up to speed on the events of the future.

If it had been, say, Gohan, I don't see why it would have needed to have been any different, or why there would have needed to have been a disguise based on the plan as it was SUPPOSED to have happened, not how Trunks's uninformed decisions made him have to improvise it.

Ah, OK, I understand now. So yeah, Gohan wouldn't have had to disguise himself. I was just thinking about the others sensing his signature ki, but I guess that wouldn't cause drastic side-effects to the timeline, and it's not as if there's any danger of him not being born in that timeline.

[Perfect]

That's all under the assumption Gohan somehow managed to survive... Otherwise, you got nobody or a stranger; that is to say, Bulma would even build the time machine.

[NitroEX]

Keep him dead after Namek? No

Keep him dead after blowing himself up against Majin Buu? Yes

[matt0044]

I don't know about keeping Vegeta dead after trying to kill Majin Buu. When Porunga restored the Earth and its inhabitants expect the bad guys, Vegata was restored too, meaning he wasn't a bad guy at all anymore. Sure, not pure enough to ride the Kinto'un by a long shot but his halo disappearing at that moment did mean something for sure. I'd just show him as much less arrogant and boastful from when Baba and Enma allow him to go to Earth to rejoin the battle.

[Hellspawn28]

If Toriyama did keep Vegeta after Freeza then I think he could have Gohan travel back in time. I think Gohan is a lot smarter then Trunks and I think he could not killed Freeza & King Cold. He would have likely wait for Goku to come back and warn him about the Future. I guess with no Vegeta then Mirai Gohan would likely train on his own in the ROSAT and could have stop Cell from turning into his Perfect form. In the Buu Saga, Babidi would have no one control and he could have try to take over Piccolo's mind (If he was not turn into stone). Knowing Piccolo, I think he would likely break out of Babidi's spell and Goku would kill Babidi before Buu is hatch.

I think GT would have been the same and that Toei would likely made Gohan turn SSj4 to fuse with Goku in order to stop Super Yi Xing Long.

[Relight]

^Huh...? You mean, if AT didn't keep Vegeta around after the Freeza arc?